Is seduction against one's will rape?

[jimmy]

Frankly, the woman who claims she was raped because she was seduced into having sex, is just as bad as the rapist who claims it was the woman’s fault because of how she dressed. Both have abrogated their own responsibility. They are essentially the same.

 

[Rete]

But if you changed the title to “Is this rape?”, and then read the OP:

That is, if one didn’t want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it’s a gross question but it had to be asked.

I think you can see where the confusion arises. Seduction is not used in the description. Instead the poster uses the word force, which is the opposite of seduction.

To force sex on a person is rape. If they later give in, that doesn’t make it okay.

 

[Ducklyn]

That is, if one didn’t want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it’s a gross question but it had to be asked.

The time you said ‘NO’ or that you did not want to do this… then any further actions by the other person is rape.

So you need to know that you did nothing wrong and you need counselling if it happened.
Do this now because the longer you leave it, the harder it will be and the suffering will be prolonged. Don’t allow yourself to be a victim take control back now.
:sad_yes:

 

[jimmy]

But if you changed the title to “Is this rape?”, and then read the OP:

I think you can see where the confusion arises. Seduction is not used in the description. Instead the poster uses the word force, which is the opposite of seduction.

To force sex on a person is rape. If they later give in, that doesn’t make it okay.

It depends on what she means by force. Is she saying she was seduced, or was she actually forced? What is the accurate reading? She also mentions accepting it? What does she mean by that? Did she accept because there was no way out, or because she had been seduced and at that point in the encounter she was a full participant?

I have taken seduction to be part of the encounter, and the OP is using force interchangeably with seduction. Maybe I am wrong though.

There was a similar thread a few months back, where a girl claimed she had been raped, but she also admitted that she never said no. So you have to know what is force, and what is seduction.

 

[underacloud]

The time you said ‘NO’ or that you did not want to do this… then any further actions by the other person is rape.

As discussed above, it is not this simple. Otherwise my wife and I could both be accused of rape against the other on occasion.

 

[Debora123]

Being seduced into having sex is not rape. Being forced into it, is.

It really is that simple.

 

[Debora123]

A few points.

1. If seduction is rape, then all sex is rape. Seduction is the act of convincing someone to freely partake of the desired act. It is always part of sex. Something is seductive if it makes you want to submit or participate. Sex is always preceded by some form of seduction.
2. If seduction is rape, then women aren’t equal to men because they are no longer responsible for their own decisions. They have freely abrogated responsibility, so they are inferior. Now only men are to bless or to blame if two people have sex. The woman was just seduced.

Then again men could probably claim that women seduced them? ‘Your honor, it was the way she dressed. It was her big breasts. I couldn’t help myself. She raped me your honor.’ so now we have both abrogated our responsibility, and denied our own free will. So no one is responsible if they have sex, because it was all just seduction. But, I have never heard a man deny his own responsibility (unless he is a complete dueshbag and probably a rapist).
3. Hell doesn’t exist, or atleast no humans are there. After all, who has ever committed evil without first being seduced by evil? No one acts with a pure mind and a pure will that is free from all error, so no one is to Blame for their sins since they were seduced by evil.

1. As was already implied, free will doesn’t exist. You aren’t to blame for your own actions, because you were seduced. It was all against your will.

Stop making so much sense!

 

[Rete]

It depends on what she means by force. Is she saying she was seduced, or was she actually forced? What is the accurate reading? She also mentions accepting it? What does she mean by that? Did she accept because there was no way out, or because she had been seduced and at that point in the encounter she was a full participant?

I have taken seduction to be part of the encounter, and the OP is using force interchangeably with seduction. Maybe I am wrong though.

There was a similar thread a few months back, where a girl claimed she had been raped, but she also admitted that she never said no. So you have to know what is force, and what is seduction.

I think it’s impossible to know. The word seduction is problematic. It makes me wonder if the person even used the word force in its proper context.

 

[LilyM]

But if you changed the title to “Is this rape?”, and then read the OP:

I think you can see where the confusion arises. Seduction is not used in the description. Instead the poster uses the word force, which is the opposite of seduction.

To force sex on a person is rape. If they later give in, that doesn’t make it okay.

This. There is no mention of seduction in the post at all - only force (which is rape). And then ‘subsequent acceptance’ - which is vague enough to mean anything from ‘I absolutely never wanted sex with hom/her, but I knew there would be a lot more force used if I tried to resist so I gave in to him/her’ to ‘I said no, s/he stopped, I mulled things over, decided I did want to sleep with him/her and two days later we did’ to ‘I did want to sleep with him/her, and had everything planned to do so on Saturday night, but he/she came over on Friday. I was more surprised than anything else.’

 

[Evania]

Yes I would agree. Thanks for the responses because they helped me figure this question out.

I think the OP didn’t want to purposefully reveal too much. Either way, I think they have the answer they were looking for based on some answers that were given. Just wanted to repost for those that didn’t see their follow up post.

 

[tafan]

That is, if one didn’t want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it’s a gross question but it had to be asked.

Lots of people say yes to this being rape.
So a man is certain his wife doesnot want sex, Yet he persists in a back rub, offering a glass of wine, making sure to light the right candles, massaging the feet, and she subsequently accepts what is obvious he wants. That is rape?

I suspect this happens quite often in many healthy marriages.

 

[LilyM]

Lots of people say yes to this being rape.
So a man is certain his wife doesnot want sex, Yet he persists in a back rub, offering a glass of wine, making sure to light the right candles, massaging the feet, and she subsequently accepts what is obvious he wants. That is rape?

I suspect this happens quite often in many healthy marriages.

In what parallel universe does a glass of wine, footrub, candles and similar constitute ‘force’? They by no stretch of the imagination fit any definition of the word that I am aware of.

So when the OP says initiation was ‘forced’, most likely he or she is referring to something very different to footrubs, candles and glasses of wine.

 

[Ducklyn]

As discussed above, it is not this simple. Otherwise my wife and I could both be accused of rape against the other on occasion.

So you would do to someone whom you are not married to what you do to your wife if they said NO?

That is the difference. You are married and you can say NO also.
But if you wife made it clear that she did not want sex would you continue?
Again the difference.

 

[Ducklyn]

It depends on what she means by force. Is she saying she was seduced, or was she actually forced? What is the accurate reading? She also mentions accepting it? What does she mean by that? Did she accept because there was no way out, or because she had been seduced and at that point in the encounter she was a full participant?

I have taken seduction to be part of the encounter, and the OP is using force interchangeably with seduction. Maybe I am wrong though.

There was a similar thread a few months back, where a girl claimed she had been raped, but she also admitted that she never said no. So you have to know what is force, and what is seduction.

That is, if one didn’t want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it’s a gross question but it had to be asked.

That contains the main ingredients for a rape case.
You did not want sex and the initiation… could be touching or in a position you could not get away from and so you had no choice but to wait for it to be over.

In other words I took this to mean… A position where the other person does not listen and then forces themselves on you.

 

[jimmy]

That contains the main ingredients for a rape case.
You did not want sex and the initiation… could be touching or in a position you could not get away from and so you had no choice but to wait for it to be over.

In other words I took this to mean… A position where the other person does not listen and then forces themselves on you.

It is still unclear what she means by the words she used.

 

[JimG]

It is still unclear what she means by the words she used.

Perhaps the OP just means temptation followed by acquiesence.

 

[underacloud]

So you would do to someone whom you are not married to what you do to your wife if they said NO?

I’m not sure I understand your question here.

That is the difference. You are married and you can say NO also.
But if you wife made it clear that she did not want sex would you continue?
Again the difference.

Depends on what one means by “clear”. “Clear” to one person may be the starting point of negotiations for another.

So when my wife makes it clear she does not want sex, yes sometimes I test to see how firm that no is. And vice versa…sometimes I’m tired too and need some convincing.

Married couples need to make time to be together and in particular be intimate together. Being tired and busy are understandable reasons for letting this slip for a little while and sometimes effort is needed to prioritise this. When you are married with four young children, there is never an ideal time any more, and rarely a moment where both spouses are in the mood in perfect sync.

 

[seakelp]

That is, if one didn’t want sex and yet its initiation was forced on you and you subsequently accepted it, would that mean you were raped?

Sorry, it’s a gross question but it had to be asked.

Legally or morally?

 

[billcu1]

Perhaps the OP just means temptation followed by acquiesence.

I’m not sure how your seduced against your will? What does that mean?

 

[JimG]

I’m not sure how your seduced against your will? What does that mean?

That’s why I rephrased the question. No one is protected against temptation, and temptation may not be desired. Acquiescence is acquiescence.