Is sentencing someone to life in prison for marijuana immoral?

  • Thread starter Thread starter AFerri48
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Can you find one inmate in the US whose only offense is smoking pot? That the only crime they ever committed was smoking marijuana? Identify one person whose is in prison for only smoking a joint.
Actually, plenty of people have marijuana possession charges on them, without additional crimes. Pot is not the type of drug which requires robbing and stealing to obtain though, there is no severe withdrawls from going without pot for a few days/ weeks (unlike some other drugs). Pot is also fairly cheap, one ‘fix’ is not going to cost $150.
 
Actually, plenty of people have marijuana possession charges on them, without additional crimes. Pot is not the type of drug which requires robbing and stealing to obtain though, there is no severe withdrawls from going without pot for a few days/ weeks (unlike some other drugs). Pot is also fairly cheap, one ‘fix’ is not going to cost $150.
Who are these “plenty” ? Who is in prison for only smoking pot? I asked a very specific question and all you come up with is “plenty”? When you can answer the question I’ll shut up about this topic but I’m sure you can’t.
 
Who are these “plenty” ? Who is in prison for only smoking pot? I asked a very specific question and all you come up with is “plenty”? When you can answer the question I’ll shut up about this topic but I’m sure you can’t.
In the 80s and 90s, the government attempted to reduce the selling and usage of illegal drugs by giving disproportionate prison sentences.

Recently, President Obama released 6000 people who had been sent to prison for non-violent drug offenses.

By the way, did you read the comment I made to you earlier in which I apologized for getting too emotional?
 
In the 80s and 90s, the government attempted to reduce the selling and usage of illegal drugs by giving disproportionate prison sentences.

Recently, President Obama released 6000 people who had been sent to prison for non-violent drug offenses.

By the way, did you read the comment I made to you earlier in which I apologized for getting too emotional?
I did and thank you. I’m responding to Mikekle. He’s made the claim there are people in prison just for smoking pot. I challenged him to find one person in prison solely for smoking pot and nothing else. It’s not emotional for me at all. I lived this stuff for more than 20 years, I know what I’m talking about.
 
I did and thank you. I’m responding to Mikekle. He’s made the claim there are people in prison just for smoking pot. I challenged him to find one person in prison solely for smoking pot and nothing else. It’s not emotional for me at all. I lived this stuff for more than 20 years, I know what I’m talking about.
Oh good; I was worried you decided to simply ignore me.

I respect what you are doing for our society, and for doing it two decades. Without making any claims, I would like to ask your opinion on the topic if you don’t mind.

To start with, why do you think the United States have such a large prison population?
Our country has more prisoners than China, despite the latter nation having a much larger overall population.
 
I did and thank you. I’m responding to Mikekle. He’s made the claim there are people in prison just for smoking pot. I challenged him to find one person in prison solely for smoking pot and nothing else. It’s not emotional for me at all. I lived this stuff for more than 20 years, I know what I’m talking about.
Im not sure what you mean by ‘in jail for smoking pot’, I can post more than a few that have been arrested for marijuana possession (with no other crime involved), so their crime would just be having the drug on them, ( which say, would have been found at a traffic stop or encounter with police)…Is this what you are wanting?

Overall though, I still say, law enforcement has no place in the ‘war on drugs’ or drug addiction, addiction is a medical disease, the CDC needs to take over and let the police get back to actual crime, but the problem is, there is not enough ‘other crime’ to justify such a large LE community, take out drugs and drug related crimes and what are you left with?
 
Oh good; I was worried you decided to simply ignore me.

I respect what you are doing for our society, and for doing it two decades. Without making any claims, I would like to ask your opinion on the topic if you don’t mind.

To start with, why do you think the United States have such a large prison population?
Our country has more prisoners than China, despite the latter nation having a much larger overall population.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. My father is in the hospital and my days have been taken up with his care.

Disclaimer - I lack knowledge of how other countries manage prison systems so I can’t speak for China.

There are many reasons for the increase of our prison population. It’s difficult to pin it down to one or two things. This is my opinion of why 1. Women are being sentenced to prison at much higher rate than in the past. While men exceed women in incarceration rates and always will, the disparity in sentencing is closing. 2. It’s easier for criminals to be caught now. With better policing, better technology, and citizen groups watching for crime, LE is able to locate and find evidence for convictions. 3. The increase of cheap drugs means more people using, which means more people selling, more people trafficking, more people manufacturing. 4. Citizens are tired of being victimized. For every crime committed the is a victim, whether a direct or indirect victim. Citizens contact their local and state officials and say enough is enough. 5. Changes in the law regarding punishment of certain crimes. A good example is DUI. Years ago someone driving drunk may get a few days in jail and their license suspended. Now most states will send a DUI to prison after 2-3 convictions. There are others but this should help folks understand.

For the record I do not believe prisons should be in the business of making a profit. I think in most cases private prisons are a bad deal. In my state we had a very large private prison that our state took over after abuses in the management were discovered. Not abuses of prisoners, but not providing the services they were contracted to do. However we do have a private incarceration facility whose main focus is treatment. The inmates are locked up but it is minimum security, short term, 90-120 days, and the inmates are in treatment most of the day. That facility works well.
Im not sure what you mean by ‘in jail for smoking pot’, I can post more than a few that have been arrested for marijuana possession (with no other crime involved), so their crime would just be having the drug on them, ( which say, would have been found at a traffic stop or encounter with police)…Is this what you are wanting?

Overall though, I still say, law enforcement has no place in the ‘war on drugs’ or drug addiction, addiction is a medical disease, the CDC needs to take over and let the police get back to actual crime, but the problem is, there is not enough ‘other crime’ to justify such a large LE community, take out drugs and drug related crimes and what are you left with?
You made the claim that you know there are people in prison for only smoking pot and I asked you to back up that claim. You haven’t done so yet. The folks in prison for marijuana are mostly there because they were either selling it or trafficking it. When I say trafficking I mean in the pounds range. In the prison I worked in I believe the largest amount was 27 pounds.

I am not convinced that addiction can be simply labeled as a medical issue, If so, what about addictions to food, shopping gambling, sex, porn, thrills, money, hording and so on? Are those medical issues too? While I concede there is a medical component to drug/alcohol abuse the answer is not simply medical treatment. I understand the neuropharmacological effects of substance use and initial treatment may be medical to address stopping the use of substance. Once a person stops substance use, it becomes a cognitive behavioral issue, one that must be treated by cognitive behavioral changes. The person must change the behavior and there isn’t a pill for that.

Here is the other side to your theory. Most often substance abuse isn’t the only crime. To get drugs most people will commit multiple crimes, theft, burglary, steal from an employer, write bad checks, steal identities to get credit cards. Behavior becomes unpredictable so there is often abuse or neglect in the family.

During my career I can’t tell you how many reports I’ve read but it is in the thousands and there is a common theme in most, long criminal histories before ever going to prison.
 
I’d like to know why so many people are so anxious to defend marijuana.

ICXC NIKA
 
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. My father is in the hospital and my days have been taken up with his care.

Disclaimer - I lack knowledge of how other countries manage prison systems so I can’t speak for China.

There are many reasons for the increase of our prison population. It’s difficult to pin it down to one or two things. This is my opinion of why 1. Women are being sentenced to prison at much higher rate than in the past. While men exceed women in incarceration rates and always will, the disparity in sentencing is closing. 2. It’s easier for criminals to be caught now. With better policing, better technology, and citizen groups watching for crime, LE is able to locate and find evidence for convictions. 3. The increase of cheap drugs means more people using, which means more people selling, more people trafficking, more people manufacturing. 4. Citizens are tired of being victimized. For every crime committed the is a victim, whether a direct or indirect victim. Citizens contact their local and state officials and say enough is enough. 5. Changes in the law regarding punishment of certain crimes. A good example is DUI. Years ago someone driving drunk may get a few days in jail and their license suspended. Now most states will send a DUI to prison after 2-3 convictions. There are others but this should help folks understand.

For the record I do not believe prisons should be in the business of making a profit. I think in most cases private prisons are a bad deal. In my state we had a very large private prison that our state took over after abuses in the management were discovered. Not abuses of prisoners, but not providing the services they were contracted to do. However we do have a private incarceration facility whose main focus is treatment. The inmates are locked up but it is minimum security, short term, 90-120 days, and the inmates are in treatment most of the day. That facility works well.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I hope your father gets better soon.

All your points make sense. I recall DNA being instrumental in more accurately determining innocence from guilt (there are numerous cases of people being both convicted and exonerated as a direct result of DNA evidence), and I’m aware that punishments for various crimes became more severe in recent years (especially with the War on Drugs and the enactment of Three-strike laws in many states).

It is possible that the US has a bigger prison population than China due to other factors. China isn’t exactly a Free Country, so it is possible that criminals there just get executed more often. It is also possible that China’s law enforcement is suffering from rampant corruption or simply lacking the same sophisticated investigation techniques used in the United States.

I appreciate you answering my questions. If you don’t mind, I have one or two more.

I have often heard that more mentally ill people go to prison than to hospitals, and that makes sense considering that the majority of the State Mental Institutes in The United States were closed down without being replaced with alternatives.
From your experience, would you say that there is a large amount of mentally ill people in prison?
 
I’d like to know why so many people are so anxious to defend marijuana.

ICXC NIKA
In all reality I’m not totally against the legalization of marijuana. I’d never actively fight for it nor would I use it but I’m not opposed really. I’ve seen studies both for and against, understand the effects on the brain, which is not much different than alcohol, and don’t buy into the “gateway” drug theory. For some it’s not and for others it is and legal or illegal, it still will be.

Having said all that I in no way would support legalization of all drugs such as meth, heroin, cocaine and so on.
 
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I hope your father gets better soon.

I appreciate you answering my questions. If you don’t mind, I have one or two more.

I have often heard that more mentally ill people go to prison than to hospitals, and that makes sense considering that the majority of the State Mental Institutes in The United States were closed down without being replaced with alternatives.
From your experience, would you say that there is a large amount of mentally ill people in prison?
My father is much better, thanks for asking.

Prisons have been the defacto placement for the mentally for way too long. However, there is a movement in the last 15 years or so to change that. I was able to work on a large project in my state to address this issue and use diversion for the mentally ill that may have ended up in prisons. It was the most satisfying work I’ve ever done. 🙂

Unfortunately prisons may be the safest place for those with mental illness who are violent. Mental hospitals aren’t necessarily equipped to deal with those types. Thanks be to God it is relatively rare. We have one man in our prison system who has actually told officials he is too crazy to be let out, he really enjoys killing. Mentally ill, no doubt, but he & society are much safer with him locked up. (He is in for life for murder so he’s not being held unjustly)

I once worked with a man who not only had significant mental health issues but has multiple medical problems, all exacerbated by uncontrollable alcohol use. He also had a lengthy criminal history. Because he did not have the ability to stay away from alcohol, we made an agreement with the judge to send him to prison for 18 months. The man agreed to go. On the surface it sounds counterintuitive, sending a man with all these problems to prison but it truly was best for him. He was sent the special medical unit which operates like an infirmary. He could not drink and his mental health issues were treated and his medical problems were taken care of. This wasn’t something that could have happened outside of prison. When he came out after the 18 months he was doing very well. Sorry to say he passed away a couple of years later.

So yes, there are a quite a few people in prison with mental health issues and some of them actually belong there. Some are there because their mental illness isn’t well managed and some are there because in addition to mental health issues they are criminals.
 
My father is much better, thanks for asking.

Prisons have been the defacto placement for the mentally for way too long. However, there is a movement in the last 15 years or so to change that. I was able to work on a large project in my state to address this issue and use diversion for the mentally ill that may have ended up in prisons. It was the most satisfying work I’ve ever done. 🙂

Unfortunately prisons may be the safest place for those with mental illness who are violent. Mental hospitals aren’t necessarily equipped to deal with those types. Thanks be to God it is relatively rare. We have one man in our prison system who has actually told officials he is too crazy to be let out, he really enjoys killing. Mentally ill, no doubt, but he & society are much safer with him locked up. (He is in for life for murder so he’s not being held unjustly)

I once worked with a man who not only had significant mental health issues but has multiple medical problems, all exacerbated by uncontrollable alcohol use. He also had a lengthy criminal history. Because he did not have the ability to stay away from alcohol, we made an agreement with the judge to send him to prison for 18 months. The man agreed to go. On the surface it sounds counterintuitive, sending a man with all these problems to prison but it truly was best for him. He was sent the special medical unit which operates like an infirmary. He could not drink and his mental health issues were treated and his medical problems were taken care of. This wasn’t something that could have happened outside of prison. When he came out after the 18 months he was doing very well. Sorry to say he passed away a couple of years later.

So yes, there are a quite a few people in prison with mental health issues and some of them actually belong there. Some are there because their mental illness isn’t well managed and some are there because in addition to mental health issues they are criminals.
That’s good to hear.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to explain these things to me. While I already apologized for getting too emotional, I feel I should at least explain where it came from: I don’t have experience working in a prison, but I did grow up with a learning disability (I’m fully functional now, but growing up had its challenges). Because of this, I have experience being vulnerable and as a result tend to empathize with vulnerable and marginalized groups such as prisoners. They are disliked by the general public, and while this dislike is not without reason (they are after all criminals, and by definition have hurt others in the past) it still makes it easier for the abuse of prisoners to be accepted - hence the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendments are for protecting criminals from things like hand-chopping and death-by-stoning (both of which are modern day punishments in The Middle East, both for real crimes and for “crimes” like talking bad about the Koran).

I’m glad to hear work is being done to get mentally ill the treatment they need. They are one of the most forgotten members of society, and it is tragic how few of them receive treatment. When not in prisons, mentally ill persons are oftentimes homeless (making up a third of the homeless population). Another common problem the mentally ill face is “Greyhound Therapy”, which is where medical officials put mentally ill patients on a bus and send them out of state to be someone else’s problem.

I’m also glad you were able to help that man turn his life around, if only for a little while. Sad to say you are right about him not being able to get this type of treatment outside of your facility: Deinstitutionalization means that mentally ill and mentally disabled people have far fewer resources then they used to have.

While I understand the need for criminals to be in prison (so they can learn their lesson, and more importantly so they can’t hurt others), I am unsure if mentally ill criminals should be there. I guess it depends on the severity of the illness: there are mentally ill people who would still be committing crimes even if they were mentally sound, while there are others who are incapable of rational thought and can’t control/understand their actions. The former doubtlessly belong in prison (while still receiving treatment from within there, so as to help with rehabilitation), while the latter should probably be confined to a mental facility until they can be cured. Sadly said mental facilities were closed down …

On another subject, what are your views on Capitol Punishment? Do you think it is justifiable, and if so when and how should it be implemented?
 
On another subject, what are your views on Capitol Punishment? Do you think it is justifiable, and if so when and how should it be implemented?
I used to be for capital punishment. I felt there were certain people who were beyond any redemption by human standards. I still feel there are people in our world who are evil and should never have access to the outside world.

A few years ago my state went forward with an execution. The man executed was a monster no doubt, did a horrible crime and never took any responsibility for his crime. At that time I was part of a team that went in after to help staff deal with any emotional issues they may have had for being part of the execution team. (Those taking part were all there voluntarily, no staff member was made to take part if they didn’t want to). One of the things we did to assist us in helping the staff was to actually go to the part of prison where the execution took place. It was in that place, in that moment, I knew putting a person to death was wrong. I felt as though the Holy Spirit was telling me all life has value and while some of these folks with a death sentence did horrific things, it is not the place of man to take their life.

Now that I’m retired I should probably be more active or vocal about ending capital punishment but I’m not. Probably something I should work on.
 
In all reality I’m not totally against the legalization of marijuana. I’d never actively fight for it nor would I use it but I’m not opposed really. I’ve seen studies both for and against, understand the effects on the brain, which is not much different than alcohol, and don’t buy into the “gateway” drug theory. For some it’s not and for others it is and legal or illegal, it still will be.

Having said all that I in no way would support legalization of all drugs such as meth, heroin, cocaine and so on.
The problem is, you cant just legalize one drug (marijuana) and keep the rest illegal, nothing will change that way, that would have been similar to back when prohibition was ended, they suggested only legalizing some forms of alcohol, while keeping others illegal…what good would that have done?

Keeping the major drugs of abuse illegal only benefit the drug cartels, pharmaceutical/ medical industries, and law enforcement agencies.

I think eventually they will have to legalize recreational opiate use, like a few other countries have done, unlike drug use in past decades, majority of people eventually just grew out of taking all the LSD, and pot, but with the modern opiate epidemic, this is not going to happen, majority of these young adults hooked now, are going to be hooked for life, overdose deaths and general usage statistics continue to skyrocket despite the tough DEA laws…at some point, they have to approach it from a different angle, but therein lies the problem, changing tactics would be admitting to failure by Law enforcement agencies and loosing a big part of their budget.

The tough new DEA laws are what caused this heroin epidemic to begin with…when they enacted very strict prescription guidelines on doctors and pharmacies in 2012, they pushed all the former pill addicts to readily accessible Heroin, better bang for the buck with no costly doctor shopping involved!
 
The problem is, you cant just legalize one drug (marijuana) and keep the rest illegal, nothing will change that way, that would have been similar to back when prohibition was ended, they suggested only legalizing some forms of alcohol, while keeping others illegal…what good would that have done?

Keeping the major drugs of abuse illegal only benefit the drug cartels, pharmaceutical/ medical industries, and law enforcement agencies.

I think eventually they will have to legalize recreational opiate use, like a few other countries have done, unlike drug use in past decades, majority of people eventually just grew out of taking all the LSD, and pot, but with the modern opiate epidemic, this is not going to happen, majority of these young adults hooked now, are going to be hooked for life, overdose deaths and general usage statistics continue to skyrocket despite the tough DEA laws…at some point, they have to approach it from a different angle, but therein lies the problem, changing tactics would be admitting to failure by Law enforcement agencies and loosing a big part of their budget.

The tough new DEA laws are what caused this heroin epidemic to begin with…when they enacted very strict prescription guidelines on doctors and pharmacies in 2012, they pushed all the former pill addicts to readily accessible Heroin, better bang for the buck with no costly doctor shopping involved!
What do you have back up your claims?
 
The problem is, you cant just legalize one drug (marijuana) and keep the rest illegal, nothing will change that way, that would have been similar to back when prohibition was ended, they suggested only legalizing some forms of alcohol, while keeping others illegal…what good would that have done?

Keeping the major drugs of abuse illegal only benefit the drug cartels, pharmaceutical/ medical industries, and law enforcement agencies.
No, the different alcohols are all fundamentally identical in their drug composition and effect. Other drugs have very different mechanisms and effects.

Personally, I voted to legalize pot in my state in support of a trial effort, how do with deal with such a problem without the harsh penalties. I might vote to reduce ‘possession’ consequences for other drugs but I’m not for making them legal.
I think eventually they will have to legalize recreational opiate use, like a few other countries have done, unlike drug use in past decades, majority of people eventually just grew out of taking all the LSD, and pot, but with the modern opiate epidemic, this is not going to happen, majority of these young adults hooked now, are going to be hooked for life, overdose deaths and general usage statistics continue to skyrocket despite the tough DEA laws…at some point, they have to approach it from a different angle, but therein lies the problem, changing tactics would be admitting to failure by Law enforcement agencies and loosing a big part of their budget.
The tough new DEA laws are what caused this heroin epidemic to begin with…when they enacted very strict prescription guidelines on doctors and pharmacies in 2012, they pushed all the former pill addicts to readily accessible Heroin, better bang for the buck with no costly doctor shopping involved!
Probably the only way out of this is to develop drugs that shut down the brain receptors in addicts
 
What do you have back up your claims?
The big one is that once the new painkiller laws took effect back in 2012 (in my state anyway, KY), this is about when heroin seemed to be readily available, so all these former pill addicts worrying about getting their next drug, now had easy access to a much stronger drug and the motivation to use it.

Now, in 2016, the heroin epidemic is just about everywhere, addicts dont have to doctor shop anymore, worry about the pharmacy, or how they are going to pay for all this, they know their dealer is always holding and ready to sell more, no expensive office visits needed or jumping thru hoops to get pills!

The simple fact that THIS MUCH heroin was suddenly available, at that specific time…a bit too much coincidence if you ask me, and the fact it continues to be so available, in just about every city in the country, this is an amazing supply success on behalf of the cartels, plus, all this happening in a post 9-11 world, along with major DEA crackdowns in recent years, yet the cartels and those they work with, are STILL able to get enough product where it needs to go CONSISTENTLY? lol, that is the proof imo

As well as the Govt NOT treating this for it is…an invasion, its killing 100s of 1000s of people, more are pushed towards using all the time. When other invasions occur, they go after the source, everyone knows poppies cant be grown here, it happens in Mexico, so they know where the source is…?? They found Bin laden, but they cannot find millions of acres of poppie fields??
 
Of course, this is immoral. It’s a major waste of money and resources, it doesn’t rehabilitate people, it destroys people’s lives and hopes, and does nothing to further the public good. We need to end mass incarceration, mandatory minimums, and the prison industrial complex as we know it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top