I hear what you are saying but I go back to my example of drug induced mental illness. Such is certainly a mental disorder and AA (A belief in God) is often used as a treatment. Same is true of sexual self abuse. The fantasies are analogous to the drugs or alcohol, and religion ought to be used to treat it. Both, drug and alcohol abuse and sexual self abuse are psychological disorders, treated with religion.This is my whole point. Moral disorders belong to the realm of religion. Psychological disorders belong to the realm of mental illness. By making it out to be a mental illness, you fundamentally remove it from its own proper field of treatment and put it in an area that does not know how to handle it. Psychology does not deal with good and evil, just as religion does not deal with brain chemistry.
Yet, you presume that your “certainty” does constitute those things.With all due respect to your dignity as a person, your “doubts” nor those of geneticists constitute proof nor are they a guide for a moral public policy that if made erroneously could jeapodize the health of the American public.
Jocelyn Elders was asked to resign because she openly advocated the possibility of teaching masturbation to school-children. Needless to say, I’ve never claimed to support that, any more than I’d support sex-ed classes that include tutorials on the ‘best way’ to have intercourse.Recall Clinton’s surgeon general who was ousted effectively (asked to resign) when she suggested the kind of policy you suggest.
Incidentally, AA has been shown to cause serious problems in cases involving comorbid disorders. Mainly due to using a religious approach that doesn’t have the resources to handle such things.I hear what you are saying but I go back to my example of drug induced mental illness. Such is certainly a mental disorder and AA (A belief in God) is often used as a treatment. Same is true of sexual self abuse. The fantasies are analogous to the drugs or alcohol, and religion ought to be used to treat it. Both, drug and alcohol abuse and sexual self abuse are psychological disorders, treated with religion.
What about all the cases that do not involve comorbidity disorders? At least we agree that religion is paramount in learning to use self-control through the use of religion.Incidentally, AA has been shown to cause serious problems in cases involving comorbid disorders. Mainly due to using a religious approach that doesn’t have the resources to handle such things.
In any case - when dealing with pure alcohol and drug dependency, the only role of medicine is to deal with the physical symptoms of the addiction. The self-control issues are dealt with through religion.
Alcoholism is primarily a self-control problem combined with a physical disorder. Addictions are not by themselves true mental illnesses the way depression or anxiety are. Trying to treat true psychological illnesses by religion is a mistake. The addiction problems, when they occur by themselves, have a wholly different character.What about all the cases that do not involve comorbidity disorders? At least we agree that religion is paramount in learning to use self-control through the use of religion.
This is what I don’t understand. A self-imposed fantasy is not a subject matter for psychology; it is a matter for religion. Religion should not be handling psychological disorders, because it has no answers for the sorts of things they are. And psychology should not be handling moral disorders, for the same reason.I still maintain that the self-imposed nature of sexual self-abuse lends itself to religion. Religion is based on LOVE and cannot be discounted in the treatment of fantasy induced sexual self-abuse. We can disagree on the efficacy of such treatment here.
Yes, we disagree here. I still maintain that sexual self-abuse can be treated with religion. I agree that alcohol and drug addictions are not the same mental illness as depression and anxiety, but this is not to say that sexual self-abuse cannot be treated with religion.Alcoholism is primarily a self-control problem combined with a physical disorder. Addictions are not by themselves true mental illnesses the way depression or anxiety are. Trying to treat true psychological illnesses by religion is a mistake. The addiction problems, when they occur by themselves, have a wholly different character.
Since when is fantasy and sexual self-abuse not a psychological problems? Clearly they are psychological problems that can be treated through religion. Heck, I suffer from anxiety and depression and my therapist uses religion to help treat me.This is what I don’t understand. A self-imposed fantasy is not a subject matter for psychology; it is a matter for religion. Religion should not be handling psychological disorders, because it has no answers for the sorts of things they are. And psychology should not be handling moral disorders, for the same reason.
You got me all wrong. What I’m saying is that it’s more efficacious to focus on how the fantasies give rise to sexual self-abuse. I never intended to say that all masturbatory commit rape. It’s the internalization of the fantasy that causes such problems as rape and molestation. The way things are now, fantasy, the main culprit, is being denied.I don’t really see treating fantisizing and masturbation as self-abuse to be constructive. If you treat it that way it gives people motivation to find some ways to keep it secret, not that such an activity hasn’t been done in secret prior to now. That would make discovery a bit of a problem. A person probably would not find them self in front of a counseller getting treatment for this alleged disorder unless he or she has already come to the conclusion that the fantasies and masturbation must stop or unless some one else is able to force the person to go.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you found that most people that engage in rape may also masturbate I’m pretty sure you won’t find that most people that masturbate also engage in rape. So it’s not a sufficient indicator of whether or not some one will engage in such activities.
I assume at the end of the day your goal is to minimize the number of people that engage in fantasy, masturbation, and the other activities that might be considered sinful under Catholicism. But these actions are not necessarily considered harmful outside of the scope of Catholicism so I can’t see this getting much traction in the general or mental health community. I also think this gets into an area of the minds of people that one will have a hard time regulating.
If it’s true anxiety or depression religion won’t help. I went through years of people trying to use religion to treat PTSD with depression/anxiety and it made the disorder significantly worse. Simply put, no amount of moral improvement will help one bit with a genuine mental disorder, because they aren’t moral disorders. Being a moral disorder by definition removes it from the definition of mental health; to say otherwise is to effectively deny our free will.Since when is fantasy and sexual self-abuse not a psychological problems? Clearly they are psychological problems that can be treated through religion. Heck, I suffer from anxiety and depression and my therapist uses religion to help treat me.
Why do you keep saying ‘moral improvement?’ Religion runs far deeper than that, and indeed helps anxiety and depression if applied the correct way. For example, my therapist often reminds me that I’m carrying my cross in life and that there is light at the end of the tunnel in life after death. Focusing on religion significantly improves my symptoms. To grow closer to God during times of severe depression is possible, and it helps significantly.If it’s true anxiety or depression religion won’t help. I went through years of people trying to use religion to treat PTSD with depression/anxiety and it made the disorder significantly worse. Simply put, no amount of moral improvement will help one bit with a genuine mental disorder, because they aren’t moral disorders. Being a moral disorder by definition removes it from the definition of mental health; to say otherwise is to effectively deny our free will.
Religion as I know it is based on faith, hope and LOVE.These are great therapeutic ‘tools!’If it’s true anxiety or depression religion won’t help. I went through years of people trying to use religion to treat PTSD with depression/anxiety and it made the disorder significantly worse. Simply put, no amount of moral improvement will help one bit with a genuine mental disorder, because they aren’t moral disorders. Being a moral disorder by definition removes it from the definition of mental health; to say otherwise is to effectively deny our free will.
A hammer is a very useful tool. However, when used to assemble a bolt to a nut it will be very ineffective and potential damaging.Religion as I know it is based on faith, hope and LOVE.These are great therapeutic ‘tools!’
What do you have to back your statements up? They sound extreme in denying that faith, hope and LOVE can take root in a person with a mental disorder. Religion has its place in treatment of mental disorders.A hammer is a very useful tool. However, when used to assemble a bolt to a nut it will be very ineffective and potential damaging.
Not all diagnosies[sp?] are moral in nature. In these cases, religion is not the appropriate tool.
Who’s saying that they can’t take root? That’s missing the point. The point is that a true mental disorder benefits no more from these things than a broken bone would, because they are not disorders of faith or love or any other virtue. Trying to treat mental illness with religion causes the same sort of failures as the errors of faith healing movements - shifting the blame to the person who does not get better for “not having enough faith.”What do you have to back your statements up? They sound extreme in denying that faith, hope and LOVE can take root in a person with a mental disorder. Religion has its place in treatment of mental disorders.
But I’m saying that faith, hope and LOVE can 'rid a person of the ‘evil’ thinking that underlay these disorders. I’m not in any way suggesting that these virtues can take the place of medicine. Nobody is shifting blame on the patient, but merely suggesting that these virtues can act like a light in the darkness,Who’s saying that they can’t take root? That’s missing the point. The point is that a true mental disorder benefits no more from these things than a broken bone would, because they are not disorders of faith or love or any other virtue. Trying to treat mental illness with religion causes the same sort of failures as the errors of faith healing movements - shifting the blame to the person who does not get better for “not having enough faith.”
Mental illness isn’t caused by evil thinking, though.But I’m saying that faith, hope and LOVE can 'rid a person of the** ‘evil’ thinking** that underlay these disorders. I’m not in any way suggesting that these virtues can take the place of medicine. Nobody is shifting blame on the patient, but merely suggesting that these virtues can act like a light in the darkness,
When we feed ourselves trash food, doesn’t that lead to poor physical health?Mental illness isn’t caused by evil thinking, though.
I have experience and the teaching of the Catholic Church and documented success of medical science to back me up.What do you have to back your statements up? They sound extreme in denying that faith, hope and LOVE can take root in a person with a mental disorder. Religion has its place in treatment of mental disorders.
Much of mental illness is caused by maladaptive thinking. This includes depression and anxiety. Faith, hope and LOVE can counteract these bad thoughts.Mental illness isn’t caused by evil thinking, though.
What teaching of the Catholic Church are you talking about? Can you provide the source?I have experience and the teaching of the Catholic Church and documented success of medical science to back me up.
What do you have back up your statements of you OP? What you have offered so far seems to be mere bald assertions.
What is extreme about suggesting the right tool for the job?
Religion cannot have the sole place in treatment of mental disorders. If fact, if the mental disorder is rooted in physiogical cause, religion cannot have the primary place. God has given us the skills to apply medicine and other techniques to address biological problems.