Is simple better?

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JoyToTheWhirled

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Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?
 
Sola fide is not biblical because of the great book of James. Faith without works is dead
 
There is something to be said for simplicity. Especially in this current society which lacks attention span and demands instant, drive-thru gratification.

So Romans 10:9, which I quoted as a Protestant to would be believers makes things simple.

But are things that black and white?
John 6:60Contemporary English Version (CEV)
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The Words of Eternal Life
60 Many of Jesus’ disciples heard him and said, “This is too hard for anyone to understand.”
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And
2 Peter 3:16New Living Translation (NLT)
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16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
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And:
Acts 8:30-31New International Version (NIV)
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30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.
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31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
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I think things are only that simple if Calvinism is true.

It’s a different era. when I read the book of ACTS I see a lot happening in a undeveloped, infant church. So a few passages like Romans 10:9 and a quick baptism would suffice. But in this day and age we have a 2,000 year old faith with a actual bible and a lot of information to talk about to equip Christians, so they can put on the whole armor of God. Ephesians 6:11

I think on the surface Catholicism is complicated and people avoid it because they enjoy simplicity(among other reasons). But when you go through RCIA things are revealed to you by the Holy Spirit if you are engaged and willing to listen.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?
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Actually true is better…
 
Lenten_ashes said:
There is something to be said for simplicity. Especially in this current society which lacks attention span and demands instant, drive-thru gratification.

…

I think on the surface Catholicism is complicated and people avoid it because they enjoy simplicity(among other reasons). But when you go through RCIA things are revealed to you by the Holy Spirit if you are engaged and willing to listen.
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I am hoping this is the case, I am starting my local parish’s ‘journey in faith’ course in about a week and this is one of the things that perturbs me a little. Protestant teaching on this seems so straight forward. Catholic beliefs, well, a touch more complicated. I mean no disrespect.
 
Luther just developed another understanding from what he saw in which works are still required; Calvin, Zwingli, and many others built on that and Calvin added predestination and double predestination and blah blah blah.

I’m not here to argue, just to comment. There’s not as many differences from the Protestant perspective, just discrepancies in certain spots.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
I am hoping this is the case, I am starting my local parish’s ‘journey in faith’ course in about a week and this is one of the things that perturbs me a little. Protestant teaching on this seems so straight forward. Catholic beliefs, well, a touch more complicated. I mean no disrespect.
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Well, I hope that God sends you in the right direction for your own spiritual growth. May the Holy Spirit guide you!
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
I am hoping this is the case, I am starting my local parish’s ‘journey in faith’ course in about a week and this is one of the things that perturbs me a little. Protestant teaching on this seems so straight forward. Catholic beliefs, well, a touch more complicated. I mean no disrespect.
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Protestant teaching on what is straight forward? I don’t understand which teaching you are talking about
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?
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This question and subsequent issues raised in the Reformation were formally resolved between Catholic and Protestants in the year 1999 with the release of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.

Originally produced jointly by the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation, the declaration has been adopted by other Christian bodies in the Protestant world, including the World Methodist Council in 2006.

The declaration reveals a shared understanding on the doctrine of salvation, namely that salvation is made possible only by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Such faith includes a life that demonstrates an active response to God’s saving grace. While some persons on both sides of the issue, Catholics and Protestants, have protested and continue the debate, in substance the declaration brought a formal end to the centuries-long division.

Not to be confused as if the declaration is some new light from the Magisterium on its teaching, the agreement still holds significance in removing the mistaken view that the “path to salvation” is somehow simpler or more complex among Catholics and/or Protestants. There is no theological difference. Any ‘requirements’ and ‘complications’ seen by some are not to be confused as requisites to salvation. Even Christian communities that preach “only believe and be saved” often make great demands on the behavior and lifestyle lived by members that in essence always equate in one way or another to so-called ‘requirements’ made by the Catholic or an Orthodox Church.
 
CeelosDeznos said:
This question and subsequent issues raised in the Reformation were formally resolved between Catholic and Protestants in the year 1999 with the release of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.
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Only the misunderstanding of justification on both sides, that we have the same ideas but they are fulfilled with different meaning, was entirely absolved (irony intended). Luther and other Protestants may have some other ideas in mind: luther.de/en/95thesen.html
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Touche 🙂
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But really Ephesians 2:8-10 (Definitely include verse 10), James 2 8-26, John 3, John 6

Not to use as proof texts but these pretty much some it all up. And these verses say a little more than faith. And I will suggest another thing. Faith is more that belief. Best analogy I ever heard is I can believe that the tight rope walker is going to make it across with no net, but how much faith would I need to get on his back as he does it? I think this is especially the faith James is talking about.
 
CeelosDeznos said:
This question and subsequent issues raised in the Reformation were formally resolved between Catholic and Protestants in the year 1999 with the release of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.

Originally produced jointly by the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation, the declaration has been adopted by other Christian bodies in the Protestant world, including the World Methodist Council in 2006.

The declaration reveals a shared understanding on the doctrine of salvation, namely that salvation is made possible only by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Such faith includes a life that demonstrates an active response to God’s saving grace. While some persons on both sides of the issue, Catholics and Protestants, have protested and continue the debate, in substance the declaration brought a formal end to the centuries-long division.

Not to be confused as if the declaration is some new light from the Magisterium on its teaching, the agreement still holds significance in removing the mistaken view that the “path to salvation” is somehow simpler or more complex among Catholics and/or Protestants. There is no theological difference. Any ‘requirements’ and ‘complications’ seen by some are not to be confused as requisites to salvation. Even Christian communities that preach “only believe and be saved” often make great demands on the behavior and lifestyle lived by members that in essence always equate in one way or another to so-called ‘requirements’ made by the Catholic or an Orthodox Church.
Click to expand...
Protestants still say we are not Christian, so I’m not sure what this did
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?
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Judaism is even simpler. You are not damned to begin with so there is no need to be saved.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
I am hoping this is the case, I am starting my local parish’s ‘journey in faith’ course in about a week and this is one of the things that perturbs me a little. Protestant teaching on this seems so straight forward. Catholic beliefs, well, a touch more complicated. I mean no disrespect.
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Awesome, praying for you on your journey friend. 🙂

There is a stage of RCIA called “Mystagogy” where it is said that deeper meaning and understanding is given. But I noticed it throughout the entire course…

Pax
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?
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Well, what about that incident in the Gospels when Martha was so busy bustling and fussing, while Mary was simply sitting at the feet of her Lord, hearing her Master’s Word? Martha was so convinced that she had to do this and that and make everybody comfortable and do so much… although there was only so much she could do. What did Jesus say to Martha when she insisted He tell Mary to help her? He said her name ( twice, in what could only have been a tone of gentle reproof) and then stated that she was busy doing so many things, but only one thing was needed. Mary had chosen the better part and He was not going to take that from her ( biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A38-42) One can " do" so much for the Lord that s/he winds up ignoring the Lord altogether in favor of all the busywork! *Sola fide *absolutely is Biblical because that is the root from whence springs love, from whence spring the good works that we are admonished to do in the Book of James. Think of it like a tree… faith is the root and trunk, love is the branch and leaf, good work is the fruit. It’s not so simple, really, requiring a lifetime of commitment, devotion, prayer, corporate and private worship and service. It’s all about Jesus, really, letting the Holy Spirit daily drown the Old Adam within us as we return to the waters of our Holy Baptism in memory, so the New Man can spring forth, regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?
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If you can get your hands on a book called “The spirit and forms of Protestantism” without paying $50 (try libraries) that would be a good read.

amazon.com/Spirit-Forms-Protestantism-Louis-Bouyer/dp/1889334316
 
Protestantism is not per se simple. Take a look at their theologies sometime.

All religion is complex if taken far enough. The Holy Catholic Church has the CCC. Protestants have the theses of Luther. Judaism has the Talmud.

At the same time, illiterates have been named to sainthood, so in practice, Catholicism can be quite simple.

All truth has layers of complexity. Consider the human body. Very simple to its “owner”, yet trainers, nurses, MDs and surgeons spend years of their lives plumbing the complexity of the body.

ICXC NIKA
 
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