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JoyToTheWhirled
Guest
Mine too. I’ve mentioned Olympic stars who were believers and said
"She’s a Christian’
And been countered with ‘well, a Catholic, at least’
It would be nice to think the differences betwixt protestant and Catholic had been resolved, but I recall my days listening with rapt attention to RC Sproul and John MacArthur and know that is not the case.
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LuciaPacifici
Guest
To me the Catholic faith is simple, and all sacraments as well as the rich traditions we have are beautiful gifts that Jesus has given us as ways to reach him and occupy our time and save souls while on earth.
I mean, so Protestants say their Jesus prayer–and then what? There is no set list of suggestions, sacraments, ideas for spiritual and corporal works of mercy, ways to worship built in. Going to church isn’t even required. And not all of them think you have to live much differently, since you are “saved.”
Before I was Catholic and kind of loved Jesus but didn’t know what to do, I would say that prayer and talk to Jesus but then I didn’t really know what else to do. I knew I was supposed to help people and pray but it is hard to figure it all out and reinvent the wheel each time.
Then the Church shows up and offers me rosaries, sacraments, sacramentals, community, chances to serve, endless prayers, endless interesting books, so many spiritualities that appeal to different personalities and callings, and dignity in every state of life.
It’s the same principle in all Christian churches. But in ours, Jesus gave us all these things to help us on the way and make it easier! I mean a great way to resist temptation is simply fill your time with these abundant holy exercises.
“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” as the Lord said. The sophisticated level of offerings of prayers and ways to live isn’t to confuse us or make us conform, it is to help us.
I mean, so Protestants say their Jesus prayer–and then what? There is no set list of suggestions, sacraments, ideas for spiritual and corporal works of mercy, ways to worship built in. Going to church isn’t even required. And not all of them think you have to live much differently, since you are “saved.”
Before I was Catholic and kind of loved Jesus but didn’t know what to do, I would say that prayer and talk to Jesus but then I didn’t really know what else to do. I knew I was supposed to help people and pray but it is hard to figure it all out and reinvent the wheel each time.
Then the Church shows up and offers me rosaries, sacraments, sacramentals, community, chances to serve, endless prayers, endless interesting books, so many spiritualities that appeal to different personalities and callings, and dignity in every state of life.
It’s the same principle in all Christian churches. But in ours, Jesus gave us all these things to help us on the way and make it easier! I mean a great way to resist temptation is simply fill your time with these abundant holy exercises.
“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” as the Lord said. The sophisticated level of offerings of prayers and ways to live isn’t to confuse us or make us conform, it is to help us.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Yeah, they’ll say “well he/she is Catholic so they don’t know Jesus they know rituals”.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
I feel like the Church does not get any credit on this from her many critics.
When I was agnostic many years ago, the Catholic Church saved my marriage as they held a retreat we heard about that was open to whomever. They do so much good in this world and there are always activities to help you grow and bond with fellow Christians. As a protestant I never understood why we had so few services. God is good and should be worshiped corporately everyday of the week, not just Sunday
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CeelosDeznos
Guest
First, not all Protestants believe this. Having worked for some years at the Pastoral Center for my diocese under my bishop, I can attest that most Protestants don’t hold us as “un-Christian.”
But you are correct, in that a very loud minority who do. You cannot convince people of things they do not want to be convinced of.
None of us goes around thinking: “You know I might be wrong about some of the things I believe or maybe in the way I believe them when it comes to my religion.” Because of this when we do make mistakes, mostly due to our own misunderstanding, we will dig our heels into our mistaken position and refuse to budge on our convictions.
But when it comes to light that it was perhaps our own mistaken conception of what we should be believing that was the problem, we humbly come to realize that where we thought we were being faithful and holding fast as an upright Christian, we were just being stubborn. It can happen to us all.
Some of these people you mention may never be convinced, even if their leaders walk across these ecumenical bridges as highlighted above. As the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” Even if thirsty, you can’t force an animal–and definitely not a person–to drink if they don’t want to.
We can’t waste our time with those who want to be lead around by the blind into pits. And we certainly can’t imitate them or use their poor examples as reasons for our own resolve to remain stubbornly immovable.
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Michael68
Guest
The Catholic Church is built upon a Rock
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Trident_H
Guest
I sort of look at the idea of Faith alone as being sort of strange now that I’ve stood in my Catholic shoes for this long. Because if that was the whole deal? Why would God inspire a whole Bible? I mean there are pages and pages in that book.
All a guy would need for the Protestant view is just a one-liner. Or a quick paragraph. Or a short little summary at most.
But instead we’ve got scads of details. So clearly God meant there to be more to it than that?
I don’t know. I mean we’re sort of talking about the guy who made the entire cosmos here. He seems to lean more to the complicated side of things. Than the plain simple.
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LittleFlower378
Guest
For Catholics every day we are being saved. It’s constant conversion and struggle on a DAILY basis, not just a one time pledge. The Sacraments of Baptism and Penance are necessary for salvation as well.
I wouldnt do something just because its the easier way. As Catholics we have it hard (pass through the narrow gate, from Gospels) but we also have it easy(my yoke is easy and my burden light, from Gospels.)
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Hatikvah
Guest
That’s a sweeping generalization.
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LuciaPacifici
Guest
That’s awesome the retreat helped. Basically yeah. These opportunities are for us. We aren’t slaves to them.I feel like the Church does not get any credit on this from her many critics.
When I was agnostic many years ago, the Catholic Church saved my marriage as they held a retreat we heard about that was open to whomever. They do so much good in this world and there are always activities to help you grow and bond with fellow Christians. As a protestant I never understood why we had so few services. God is good and should be worshiped corporately everyday of the week, not just Sunday
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LutheranScholar
Guest
It is, but it also instills an innate “victimhood.” " They don’t like us, they say our leader is Antichrist, they say we’re not Christians, but we really are, they are the ones who aren’t really Christians, etc., etc., etc…" That meets with the response of " well you say we’re not really Christians, we’re outside of the Church, we don’t care about Jesus, we twist things to suit us, etc., etc., etc." That just keeps the fight going, at least on the net. Each side says the other side is victimizing them and when somebody gets called out, here comes the perennial whine, " but it’s the truth!"
The Truth is Jesus Himself. That might be a sweeping generalization, too, but we can all agree that it’s generally ( and particularly) true. We have God’s Word. We have the Holy Scripture, compiled and given to us by the Early Church. The Protestants settled on a canon that is without the deuteros and the Catholics decided later on ( Council of Trent, after the Protestant Reformation) to include them. We have the Message of law and Gospel, even as we have the Holy Sacraments. We have the Three Creeds of Apostle’s, Nicene and Athanasian.
After that, particular traditions and creedal statements take over. Some regard certain statements as essential to Christian life and practice, others regard them as adiaphora, or nonessentials. You might find that if you’re in the midst of a Protestant crowd, you’ll go with what they say and you’ll do the same if you’re in the midst of a Catholic crowd. This is physically, in real life. Socialization is a bit more diplomatic and sometimes far more pleasant when the encounter is face to face. I’m now going to submit this little essay and take a walk in some fresh air. It’s very temperate today and not too hot.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Latin vulgate already had those 7 books in the canon. The 2nd bible ever, Gutenberg bible, also had them. Both before the reformation occurred.
Trent reaffirmed what already existed. Like pretty much every ecumenical council in history.
Pax
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MT1926
Guest
I’m not here to argue with anyone I just want to give you a couple of Bible passages, from our Lord, that I read today and I wanted to pass them onto you so you can decide for yourself.
John 14:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 21:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
First Jesus tells us that believers will do the works that he has been doing. So right here we have Christ himself telling us we need to do more than just believe. However, here is the catch, at the end of John’s gospel we find out everything Jesus did wasn’t written down. Well how the heck are we going to do “greater things than these” using Sola Scriptura, if all the works weren’t written down?
I’ve been in business, dealing with the public, for 23 years now, father of 5, involved in many many organizations. The one thing I realized through the years is most people do not appreciate or value the things that come easy. Which would you rather have with you a bunch of people thanking you daily for all the work you are doing or a bunch of people picking up their crosses and working along side you? I think there might be a Bible verse about that somewhere.
PS If the job was done when Jesus died on the cross why did he rise from the dead?
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Hatikvah
Guest
The 1611 Middle English Authorized Version of the King James Bible also had the Deuterocanon, and theirs was a post-English Reformation Anglican translation.
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LutheranScholar
Guest
Of course, these books weren’t disputed beforehand and the Protestants had no real reason to leave them out of the canon, if only for their questionable status. Regardless of that, Luther saw them as educative and useful in learning Christian doctrine, although he did not regard them as inspired.
*CPH publishes first Lutheran English edition of ‘Apocrypha’
September 12, 2012 in NEWS, REPORTER
The Apocrypha — 14 books of writings produced in the 400 years between the Old and New Testaments — is now available for the first time in English with Lutheran notes.
cph-apocrypha.gif
For centuries, every Lutheran’s Bible (Martin Luther’s German translation) included the Apocrypha. But the English Bibles used by Lutherans in more recent years do not.
“These books” of the Apocrypha, wrote Luther, “are not held equal to the Scriptures, but are useful and good to read.”
Now Concordia Publishing House announces the revival of these seemingly forgotten books with its publication of The Apocrypha: The Lutheran Edition with Notes.
“As long as CPH published Luther’s Bible in German, our church was aware of the existence of these books,” said CPH Publisher Rev. Paul T. McCain. “In fact, even into the 1970s it was still available — but only to those who could read German.”
From Luther to the Rev. Dr. C.F.W. Walther, the Synod’s first president, the Apocrypha was used and referenced by orthodox Lutheran theologians in their doctrinal works, sermons and devotional writings.
McCain acknowledges that the books “have long been a rich part of our biblical Lutheran heritage” — serving as the text for beloved hymns such as “Now Thank We All Our God” — and “they were commonplace reading materials for all Lutherans at the time of the Reformation and for hundreds of years afterwards.”
He and the Rev. Edward Engelbrecht, general editor of The Apocrypha: The Lutheran Edition with Notes, consider the Apocrypha to be an important text because it can help Christians understand the New Testament.
“In general, it fills the gap between the testaments,” explains Engelbrecht. “It benefits anyone who wants to learn how the New Testament and Christianity came about.”
CPH’s edition of The Apocrypha includes extensive quotes and explanations from Luther and Johann Gerhard, as well as study notes and commentary from biblical scholars. Also included are maps, charts, illustrations, book introductions and related articles that are intended to be helpful to readers.
The new book, says noted author Rev. Dr. Paul L. Maier, is “quite likely … the product of one of the most ambitious projects dealing with the Apocrypha ever undertaken. Not only does it offer an unfailingly accurate translation of the various texts involved, via the English Standard Version, but it is also replete with scholarly notes and commentary to assist the reader — lay or professional — in every way possible.”
Maier — LCMS third vice-president and The Russell H. Seibert Professor of Ancient History emeritus at Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo, Mich. — is the author of A Skeleton in God’s Closet, More than a Skeleton, The Constantine Codex and numerous other books for adults and children.
Engelbrecht encourages every Christian to make reading the entire Bible and the Apocrypha “a life goal” and says CPH is “proud to be able to offer both of these books in English and with distinctively Lutheran notes.”
The Apocrypha: The Lutheran Edition with Notes (item no. 012065WEB), normally priced at $39.99, is available through Dec. 31 at an introductory price of $34.99.
Also available is a Study Guide to the Apocrypha (item no. 204167WEB), normally priced at $7.99, on sale for $5.
To order, call CPH at 800-325-3040 or visit www.cph.org/apocrypha. Prices quoted do not include shipping charges.
Posted Sept. 12, 2012*
blogs.lcms.org/2012/cph-publishes-first-lutheran-english-edition-of-apocrypha
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Hatikvah
Guest
How was your walk?
I thought it was only seven books? We use sixty-six books, everybody but Restorationists use seventy-three. Or is there a difference between the deuterocanon and the Apocrypha?
This EWTN source says that Luther excluded seven, too: ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Jerome disputed them and was overruled by the Pope in 382AD and they became canon. No real major disputes after that until the reformation. They were part of the Septuagint which Jews later rejected but had accepted up until about 100AD. Knowing how outraged Luther was about the sale of indulgences, i get why he didnt want 2Macc in there as it includes a passage demonstrating prayer for the deceased. Of course i think he’s wrong but i understand his reasoning
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lax16
Guest
I find Protestants to be far “busier” than Catholics. Group studies, bible studies, daily scripture readings, couples studies…
I find Catholicism to be much more streamlined than Protestantism.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
No there are others you will find in the Orthodox canon. Depending on which branch because they still dont have a universally approved canon today. My orthodox bible has like 76 booksHow was your walk?
I thought it was only seven books? We use sixty-six books, everybody but Restorationists use seventy-three. Or is there a difference between the deuterocanon and the Apocrypha?
This EWTN source says that Luther excluded seven, too: ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=438095
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