Is simple better?

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Yeah, not what I meant when I said simple. i guess I am coming from a fundamentalist evangelical background, and my husband and current friends are much influenced by preachers like Kenneth Copeland, and his salvation prayer really is simple.

 

[Hatikvah]

It might be " simple- minded," but that’s about it. :: ba- dum- ching!::

Ha!

 

[eddie_too]

if eternal life and salvation are the same thing, and i think they are.

Jesus said, “this is eternal life, to know the Father and He whom the Father has sent”.

from this i understand that knowing is part of believing.

if Jesus were ONLY a human being who died on the cross so that other human beings might be saved, the understanding of some protestants that believing that alone is sufficient would make sense.

but, i understand Jesus to be much more than merely a man who sacrificed Himself for the salvation of others.

i believe that knowing Jesus and knowing the Father is a life long process that is often not perfected until after the death of our physical bodies.

i am a far different person today than i was forty years ago. i am a better person. i am a more loving person. yet, i have a long way to go before i am a perfected human being.

one other thing, how is it that a person can say they believe that Jesus died for their sins and thus they are saved and then continue to not LOVE Jesus by not following His commandments? Jesus said if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. as a RC i believe that our salvation lies in our loving Jesus although of course Jesus loving us precedes our loving Him.

 

[catholicscot]

Faith is simple, life is complicated. Catholic doctrine over the course of two millennia has had to apply the principles of the faith to all the tiny, tiny details of enormously complex human lives and societies. The only alternative is to pretend that societies and humans are simple and so a one size fits all approach will work. Having said which all you absolutely need to ask is ‘what does the faith mean to me right here, right now?’ And the answer, for you, will almost certainly be simple.

St Francis de Sales is a good person to read, it think, to help clarify what I mean here.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Thanks for responding, but I think I wrote above that the Apocrypha was actually included initially and was taken out a lot later. I already ate my humble pie.

cph.org/p-19305-the-apocr…ith-notes.aspx

Although the books aren’t regarded as inspired, they are regarded as useful. I’ll have to order a Lutheran copy of them myself at some point… maybe after I’ve done that Y- DNA test at Family Tree DNA.

Link doesn’t work.

Anyway just want to clear up any confusion about the Church and those 7 books. They werent added at Trent they were already in the only 2 bibles in existence prior to reformation. Its a accusation i hear constantly and it’s nauseating lol

Do Lutherans still use them for teaching purposes as the Anglicans? I mean in practice not just in theory.

Thanks

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Thank you very much. Which threads did you see me post that on?

I can only thank God and the Christians before me for the corpus of ideas they have left behind for us.

Yeah, I think so, but Isaiah 53 has mention of the atonement, this one does not.

I see that in him, too. He also had a great love for music, being a composer and he laid down some reformed social values (one of which was freedom of religion, saying that true faith cannot be coerced).

Cant recall which thread it was.

And Luther is also the guy who was first to light up Christmas trees. He used candles. I wonder how many Catholics are aware of that. Heck, i wonder how many Lutherans know that lol

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Yeah, not what I meant when I said simple. i guess I am coming from a fundamentalist evangelical background, and my husband and current friends are much influenced by preachers like Kenneth Copeland, and his salvation prayer really is simple.

Makes me think of TBN right away.

Health and wealth false message they preach smh.

I do still like a few of their preachers like John Hagee. When he is sticking to the true gospel he is one dynamic preacher

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Oh yeah, it’s word faith teaching alright. One of my best friends is very into it, all about guarding the tongue and only speaking positive things, never negatives. Actually now I come to think of it, it is quite a complex system of beliefs, ironically enough.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Very similar to this new age teaching " law of attraction". Think it and speak it and it shall be. Put positive energy into the “universe” and you will receive whatever you want.

Not exactly the same but similar. Anyway it seems foreign to both the scriptures and with my overall life experiences.

 

[meltzerboy]

if eternal life and salvation are the same thing, and i think they are.

Jesus said, “this is eternal life, to know the Father and He whom the Father has sent”.

from this i understand that knowing is part of believing.

if Jesus were ONLY a human being who died on the cross so that other human beings might be saved, the understanding of some protestants that believing that alone is sufficient would make sense.

but, i understand Jesus to be much more than merely a man who sacrificed Himself for the salvation of others.

i believe that knowing Jesus and knowing the Father is a life long process that is often not perfected until after the death of our physical bodies.

i am a far different person today than i was forty years ago. i am a better person. i am a more loving person. yet, i have a long way to go before i am a perfected human being.

one other thing, how is it that a person can say they believe that Jesus died for their sins and thus they are saved and then continue to not LOVE Jesus by not following His commandments? Jesus said if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. as a RC i believe that our salvation lies in our loving Jesus although of course Jesus loving us precedes our loving Him.

Do you therefore believe you already have eternal life or salvation in knowing Jesus and the Father? In other words, are you defining salvation as a continual process of perfecting yourself rather than a physical consciousness of one’s being and of G-d for all eternity?

 

[MichaelP3]

Protestant teaching generally holds that you need do only one thing to be saved, that is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins and that is it, the job is done. Some take this further than others for sure, but that is the gist of it, and indeed is it’s unique selling point.

Catholic teaching (and Orthodox as I understand it) requires much more of the believer. In comparison to the simplicity of protestant ‘believe and be saved’ does Catholicism come across as woefully complicated and far too difficult?

Romans 10:9.

And before all Catholic attack me, I am sure I have heard it before.

But this is not merely a belief and it is cool and yea all is good. This should be a belief without a single whatsoever doubt and so on. I hope all know what I mean. This is a belief that can move mountains as stated in scripture, and I have not moved a mountain yet. It is 1 essential belief yes, and I feel it is a lot more worth worrying about then just following “simple” guidelines. I don’t believe it is that simple.

 

[ajcstr]

Romans 10:9.

And before all Catholic attack me, I am sure I have heard it before.

Its a shame nobody in the NT ever asked Jesus (who I believe will decide the matter) that question. Oh wait Luke 18 you say…hmmmmm interesting.

And to the OP, it don’t get much simpler than that.

 

[MichaelP3]

Its a shame nobody in the NT ever asked Jesus (who I believe will decide the matter) that question. Oh wait Luke 18 you say…hmmmmm interesting.

And to the OP, it don’t get much simpler than that.

Good day Mr ajcstr!

You will need to be a bit more specific than that. I can use Luke 18 as well but before I do, I’d get some info first. It just works that way for some reason

 

[ajcstr]

Good day Mr ajcstr!

You will need to be a bit more specific than that. I can use Luke 18 as well but before I do, I’d get some info first. It just works that way for some reason

Forgive me… I’m Catholic … Luke 18 18

 

[LutheranScholar]

Cant recall which thread it was.

And Luther is also the guy who was first to light up Christmas trees. He used candles. I wonder how many Catholics are aware of that. Heck, i wonder how many Lutherans know that lol

cph.org/p-19305-the-apocrypha-the-lutheran-edition-with-notes.aspx

One of Germany’s greatest contributions to the world was the concept of the Christmas tree. Now, it’s a treasured American tradition to trim it and pretty it all up so we can take it down two weeks later…

 

[MichaelP3]

Forgive me… I’m Catholic … Luke 18 18

Okay
18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
(Use another translation, all okay )
What must I take from this?

 

[ajcstr]

Okay
18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
(Use another translation, all okay )
What must I take from this?

Jesus does not answer “believe in me” or “have faith in me”

 

[LutheranScholar]

Jesus does not answer “believe in me” or “have faith in me”

No, He says " follow me." In the matter of salvation, he also says that " what is impossible for man is possible with God." That’s what we poor Protestants do, by the grace of God.

 

[ajcstr]

No, He says " follow me." In the matter of salvation, he also says that " what is impossible for man is possible with God." That’s what we poor Protestants do, by the grace of God.

does follow me imply simply a proclamation of faith?

He also says keep the commandments

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

1…GRACE

2… FAITH

3… WORKS

4… AMEN !!!

 

[MaryT777]

does follow me imply simply a proclamation of faith?

He also says keep the commandments

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

1…GRACE

2… FAITH

3… WORKS

4… AMEN !!!

Amen!~