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Bill_Pick
Guest
In the OT,was confession of sin a private affair ? In the NT was coffession of sin a private affair
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Fisher
Guest
Not open sin
Isn’t that why the pastor/priest is bound to not reveal a sinner’s confession?
Whether or not sin is a private affair depends on the sin, I would think.
Jon
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Moscati
Guest
I think in the OT confession of sin could be either, depending. There were instances where the entire nation of Israel was called to confess their sins and repent by the prophets, which sounds rather public. But when David sinned with Bathsheba, his confession and penance were somewhat private, mostly between him and prophet Nathan.
In the NT, Jesus forgave people of their sins on an individual basis, generally semi-privately, or in front of only his disciples, as far as I can remember. The one time he forgave someone within the hearing of the Pharisees went badly.
In the NT, Jesus forgave people of their sins on an individual basis, generally semi-privately, or in front of only his disciples, as far as I can remember. The one time he forgave someone within the hearing of the Pharisees went badly.
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
There is both private and public sin and private and public confession.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Hiyas
IMHO…most sins might be carried out in private but affect many others. Example: No one sees me commit a sin against God’s Environmental i.e., I throw a can down…
It’s sinful impact now is public.
As always, just my thoughts…
IMHO…most sins might be carried out in private but affect many others. Example: No one sees me commit a sin against God’s Environmental i.e., I throw a can down…
It’s sinful impact now is public.
As always, just my thoughts…
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Pawel_J
Guest
The traditional form of confession (individual) is now in crisis at least here in Europe, Germany. Fewer and fewer people go to confess individually. In most churches in Germany there are no opportunity to confess individually before or during the mass. In Poland it is usually possible to confess during the mass, but very few people do it now. Only on such occassions as Easter or Christmass the number of confessing people considerably increases, beacause they want to receive the communion.
I think this is mostly because of an unpleasant feeling experienced by most people during confession. Especially unpleasant is this feeling experienced with children, who are forced to confess on every first Friday of a month. What is the aim of this? How grave are the sins committed by those young childred to have to confess so frequent?? Partial guilt lies on the part of confessors, who are in most cases not prepared for such a role professionally. They either present an unhealthy interest and ask strange questions or are not interested at all and do not really listen to.
Something has to be done with this problem. I think the best solution would be to legitimize the common confession as it is in Protestant Churches with the possibility to confess individually upon request.
I think this is mostly because of an unpleasant feeling experienced by most people during confession. Especially unpleasant is this feeling experienced with children, who are forced to confess on every first Friday of a month. What is the aim of this? How grave are the sins committed by those young childred to have to confess so frequent?? Partial guilt lies on the part of confessors, who are in most cases not prepared for such a role professionally. They either present an unhealthy interest and ask strange questions or are not interested at all and do not really listen to.
Something has to be done with this problem. I think the best solution would be to legitimize the common confession as it is in Protestant Churches with the possibility to confess individually upon request.
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PJM
Guest
***In the OT is [and in Jewish Tradition still is] a semi-public affair.
The “Sin Goat” [Exodus I think?]
The whailing Wall
And I can’t spell it but Jewish day of Atonement, are all public without being specific about the sins, nature and quanity.
There have been times in the early Church of ‘sackclothe and ashes’ public penance, an I think even some public expression of the specific sins.
The Holy Spirit has granted a more enlightened private Confession, which sadly, [for those souls that don’t…VERY SADLY] is not used by many. NOT that God, NOT that the Pope, Not that the Magisterium have proclaimed it unnecsaary; NO, because many think they know more and know better:eek***:
Dear God help them!
1 John 5: 16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. [and unconfessed it will send you to hell!]
John 20: 21-23 "Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “***Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” ***
Who do you think your fooling by not going to Confession!
C
Christ_Imitator
Guest
“Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” [James 5:16 -NIV]
“As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.” [Proverbs 27:17]
There are more that I could find in the New Testament, but I can’t think of them right now.
The Bible talks about us not keeping our sins secret, because if we don’t have people to hold us accountable of our sins, Satan is able to get us to think that what we’re doing really “isn’t so bad.” He** will **find some way of convincing us that what we do is acceptable. I see no need to confess sins to a priest, but if you find it helpful, go for it! I’d rather find a trust-worthy friend of mine to talk with it about; someone who’d probably gone through the same thing. We can hold each other accountable for the “secret sins” in our lives.
“As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.” [Proverbs 27:17]
There are more that I could find in the New Testament, but I can’t think of them right now.
The Bible talks about us not keeping our sins secret, because if we don’t have people to hold us accountable of our sins, Satan is able to get us to think that what we’re doing really “isn’t so bad.” He** will **find some way of convincing us that what we do is acceptable. I see no need to confess sins to a priest, but if you find it helpful, go for it! I’d rather find a trust-worthy friend of mine to talk with it about; someone who’d probably gone through the same thing. We can hold each other accountable for the “secret sins” in our lives.
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Nine_Two
Guest
The original Christian practice was to confess in front of the congregation, however with the legalization of Christianity the community became less tight knit and some individuals would be less forgiving, thus the move towards private confession in front of a priest was instituted.
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aspirant
Guest
Nine_Two is right, confession was originally done in the presence of the congregation. Private confession, penitent and priest without the rest of the congregation, evolved over time for a variety of reasons.
Even the most “private” sins can have a public dimension, that is, impact other people. C.S. Lewis provides an apt analogy explaining this in Mere Christianity, if memory serves.
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PJM
Guest
Dear friend in Christ?***
"Is it reasobable to think we can follow Christ in His Glory; if we are unwilling to follow Him in His Passion?" Father John A. Hardon S.J.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to “follow Christ” if you do NOT FOLLOW what He teaches!
Matt.16: 19 " I [Jesus] will give you [My Catholic Church] the [all] keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [SINGULAR]bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you [SINGULAR] loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
John 20:21-23 … At Pentecost Jesus appeared and spoke these words of love, issued this mandate to ALL, and granted the power NOT to forgive sin, which only God can do; BUT to decide which sins, which sinners are to be forgiven! Speaking to all of His Catholic Apostles [Bishops /priest]: “Whose sins you shall [decide to] forgive are forgiven, and whose sins you [decide NOT to forgive] they shall be retained!
Don’t beleive, don’t do, don’t OBEY Christ and your NOT a follower of Christ; your only pretending to be.
Friend, do you also pretend not to believe Heaven and Hell ar real and for Eternity
Now you know the truth, what are you going to do about it?
Love and prayers,
Pat
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Christ_Imitator
Guest
PJM, I am curious if that is the only part of my post that you read. 
If you re-read it, I said that it IS important to confess our sins to other people. However, I don’t see why it needs to be to a priest?
You do know that protestants do not confess their sins to priests (or pastors), don’t you? I am not Catholic, therefore, I don’t confess my sins to a priest. But, I can assure you that I do talk with close people in my youth group (friends and leaders) about sins that I struggle with. As I mentioned in my first post, it is very important that we confess our sins to someone (besides God-that’s important as well).
I don’t believe the Bible mentions that it has to be a priest…
I do indeed follow what God teaches us. (yes, the Bible is what he uses to teach us, I understand).
If you re-read it, I said that it IS important to confess our sins to other people. However, I don’t see why it needs to be to a priest?
You do know that protestants do not confess their sins to priests (or pastors), don’t you? I am not Catholic, therefore, I don’t confess my sins to a priest. But, I can assure you that I do talk with close people in my youth group (friends and leaders) about sins that I struggle with. As I mentioned in my first post, it is very important that we confess our sins to someone (besides God-that’s important as well).
I don’t believe the Bible mentions that it has to be a priest…
I do indeed follow what God teaches us. (yes, the Bible is what he uses to teach us, I understand).
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aspirant
Guest
When we look at relevant scriptures, we see Apostles or those they have authorized there. After the resurrection, Jesus says to the Apostles: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me” and “As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you… Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” Paul says reconciliation is a dimension of the apostolic ministry: “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.” When James says “confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed,” he has mentioned the presence of the presbyters of the church. (Presbyteros or presbyter is the the etymological root of the English word “priest”)
And when we look at other ancient Christian documents, confessions are done with a bishop or priest present. The Didache says, for example, “Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life… On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure.” Ignatius writes: “For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ… For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop.”
As you can see, these passages do not suggest that the penitent and presbyter were alone, but in the company of others, even a whole congregation. That is how it was done back then. Private confession between the penitent and minister of reconciliation was a later development.
You may read the texts differently, but this is how we understand them.
Many do not, but some do. Auricular confession in the presence of a pastor is practiced among some Anglicans and Lutherans, for example. The Lutheran Church of Sweden, from what I’ve been told, actually considers it a sacrament.
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sablouwho
Guest
Oooooo, I am so grateful that my first confession will be just to a priest and not in front of everyone!
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sablouwho
Guest
Hi Pawel – I’ve read many of your posts on CAF and I enjoy what you have to say!
In RCIA class the priest lamented how so few confess.
Strangely, I am looking forward to making my first confession. One thing I like about the CC (so far, anyway) is that there are rituals for things.
I don’t find that in my private confessional prayers (being a Christian but not a Catholic, it’s the only option available for me right now) that I have a sense of actually being forgiven. Having another person with whom to interact, who will keep me accountable in the process of confessing, appeals to me, as does the conveyance of real grace/forgiveness.
But that’s me… Though it is unfortunate to hear that many people have an aversion to it. I pray that I will not feel that way myself.
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aspirant
Guest
Maybe it’s not common, but I love confession. My first confession was awesome. I hope yours is too.
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PJM
Guest
=Christ Imitator;PJM, I am curious if that is the only part of my post that you read.
If you re-read it, I said that it IS important to confess our sins to other people. However, I don’t see why it needs to be to a priest?
You do know that protestants do not confess their sins to priests (or pastors), don’t you? I am not Catholic, therefore, I don’t confess my sins to a priest. But, I can assure you that I do talk with close people in my youth group (friends and leaders) about sins that I struggle with. As I mentioned in my first post, it is very important that we confess our sins to someone (besides God-that’s important as well).
***My dear freind in Christ,I don’t believe the Bible mentions that it has to be a priest…
Yes actaully I read and reread your post in its intirety. Certanly your heart is in he right place. In fact I dare say, your heart is far closer to God and the truth, than “is your head.”
Did you look up the passages I suggested
And actually and factually the bible does say one one must Confess to priest as I will explain.
Historians claim the bible was completely wrtitten by the end of th First Century. Some claim by 80 AD. [After Death].
One of he keys to understanding the Bible is to consider who wrote it, who was it written to, and who was it written for.
Until the time of the “Great Eastern Schism” nearly a thousand years after the Death of Jesus *** there was ONLY One Christian Church and Faith; that being the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Himself, with Peter its head, and the Apostles the first Bishops, and the deciples [male only] were priest. [Mt.16:15;18] One ought to understand that todays terminology evolved as the Church grew.
Despite efforts to get around this this, its historical fact. It is God’s plan and God’s Divine Will.
As the Bible comes into fruition through this one [Catholic Church] and the entire Bible was written by men we know today to have been the first Catholics [the term was not applied and used in the new Church until over a hundred years later, but was well established as the common name by the rule of Constatine in about 325.]
These being easly proveable historical facts, the Bible was in a sense “birthted” by the Catholic Church. What the Bible says was written specifically to and for Catholic /Christians as no other competiting faith came unto the scene for MANY hundredes of yars later.
Therefore one applying even the slighest bit of logic must apply what is being said as being instructions for this Catholic Community. [No others were in existence]. If and when "Jesus issued authority an mandates; it had to apply to the singular[Catholic] Church.
Eph. 2:19 19 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
That being fact in reading John 20:21-23 which for your sake I shall quote from your own KJ Bible, simply has to be logically understood for a MANDAE from Jesus who is God, and it it is exceedingly specific and clear. This takes place in th upper room at Penetecost.
20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20: 21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you.*** As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.*** Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: *** Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: [SNGULAR} and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. Whose soever sins ye [SINGULAR] remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. "***
My dear friend either Christ IS LORD or He’s not?
Either the Bible is the word of God [all of it] or none of it is?
Either we choose to listen and obey God or we pay the afterlife consequences!
**Matt. 16:19 **QUOTING JESUS HIMSELF “Matt.16:19 I [Jesus] will give you [Peter as the head of my new Church] the keys of the kingdom of heaven,[all of them] and whatever you bind [SINGULAR] on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you [SINGULAR] loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
So yes friend, the bible does say “Confess to priest” when properly read.
Love and prayers,
A friend in Christ,
Pat
2 Cor. 4: 2 “We have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways; we refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing.
**1 Peter 4: 17 **For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And “If the righteous man is scarcely saved, where will the impious and sinner appear?”
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