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Mickey
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Fr Corapi says that it is a violation of the 5th commandment–a mortal sin! Would he not know more than an apologist?
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puzzleannie
Guest
yes, because suicide is a mortal sin, and smoking is slow suicide, and its effects including death injure the family and loved ones of the victim as well, which makes it doubly wrong. fortunately both my parents confessed and received anointing before they died from their smoking-related cancers after long and devastating illnesses.
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Roche42
Guest
Well I know that for the year of the Eucharist in order to obtain an indulgence one is now required to abstain from tobacco and other non-essentials for a full day. Now if it was a mortal sin to smoke, wouldn’t it be pointless to tell people to abstain for only one day? Driving a car on the highway, mountain climbing, and bungee jumping also include high risk of death…I suppose these are now mortal sins, right? Eating fast food unecessarily increases your risk of a heart attack. Does the risk have to be higher? What is the cuttoff point? Until I see a statement from the magisterium calling tobacco use a mortal sin, no, I don’t believe Father Corapi’s condemnation of smoking holds any more weight than a professional apologist. My advice would be that since there are many priests and apologists who do not believe it is a sin to use tobacco, and there is certainly no official Church teaching on it, maybe one should follow his/her own conscience.
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Scott_Waddell
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Right on. Along with the Iraq war, the subject of smoking sees the most attempts by people trying to elevate a pet peeve to binding Church teaching. So we see back-door quasi-Calvinists taking the round peg of smoking, putting it in the square hole of Church teachings on suicide, thou shalt not kill, temple of the Holy Spirit, etc., and trying to force it in with the hammer of their personal judgement.
Scott
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Rebecca_New
Guest
I never thought of occassional smoking as a sin but decided to ask our priest during my confession. Father did not directly answer me but I continue to have the same feeling that if you are not addicted and can give up smoking for some time frequently and do not chain smoke-then it is no worse than eating a batch of fries or a hot fudge sundae. I have heard that St. Padre Pio is associated with the scent of roses or fresh tobacco-I have noted that people who hate smokers are at more risk than the smoker.
Also the chemicals that we use to clean with, soaps, sprays, automobile fumes, they cause cancer too-is driving a car a sin? I guess it is an unnecessary consumption that could become a sin very easily. I continue to pray-I have so many faults and shortcomings, as the Lord enlightens my thoughts I hope I will change.
Also the chemicals that we use to clean with, soaps, sprays, automobile fumes, they cause cancer too-is driving a car a sin? I guess it is an unnecessary consumption that could become a sin very easily. I continue to pray-I have so many faults and shortcomings, as the Lord enlightens my thoughts I hope I will change.
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Mickey
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Scott Waddell:
As you wish.
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Scott_Waddell
Guest
Thanks. For the record, I’m not trying to be cheeky, but I truly believe that the danger of joining the ever-growing pagan cult of the body (See CCC 2289) far outweigh the risks of temperate smoking.
Of course I’m not saying that it is impossible to sin by smoking. I would argue that we are talking about sins of gluttony: taking a legitimate pleasure and overdoing it.
Scott
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Mickey
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**2289 **If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it’s sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.
[2290](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2290.htm’)
The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.
Since nicotine is an addictive drug, am I correct in interpreting this to mean that smoking cigarettes is a grave offense?
[2290](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2290.htm’) The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.
Since nicotine is an addictive drug, am I correct in interpreting this to mean that smoking cigarettes is a grave offense?
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Roche42
Guest
2290 Is referencing the ABUSE of food, alcohol, or tobacco, not their use. As far as 2291, the Magesterium acknowledges the rights of individual governments to determine the illegality of certain drugs, tobacco and alcohol included. I understand the feeling that tobacco has negative effects and should be avoided, along with alcohol it can be sinful in certain situations and when abused…however, tobacco is not explicitly or implicitly regarded as inherently sinful in Church moral law.
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Mickey
Guest
So you are saying that smoking is sinful only when abused?
What constitutes abuse?
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trumpet152
Guest
I remember a story I heard about C.S. Lewis when a young fundamentalist saw him both drinking and smoking. He came to Lewis and said, “Mr. Lewis! In America Christians don’t drink, smoke or curse!” Lewis looked at him and said, “We damn well do here!” 
He said it to prove a point. Food is not bad, but gluttony is. Alcohol is not bad, but drunkenness is. Smoking is not bad, but the abuse of it is. Where is that line? I don’t know. You’ll have to judge for yourself
He said it to prove a point. Food is not bad, but gluttony is. Alcohol is not bad, but drunkenness is. Smoking is not bad, but the abuse of it is. Where is that line? I don’t know. You’ll have to judge for yourself
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Scott_Waddell
Guest
Putting nicotine under the category of drugs in CCC 2291 would be problematic because logically there would be no stopping point to what one could throw in there: alcohol, caffeine, MSG, refined sugar, etc. and we would start resembling Mormons rather than Catholics.
It is good that we brought up gluttony, because when we look at excessive smokers, we also see excessiveness in other areas. Excessive smokers also tend to eat poorly and get no excercise. In other words, gluttony and sloth are the root causes. Excessive smoking, bad diet and lack of excercise are merely the manifestations.
Scott
It is good that we brought up gluttony, because when we look at excessive smokers, we also see excessiveness in other areas. Excessive smokers also tend to eat poorly and get no excercise. In other words, gluttony and sloth are the root causes. Excessive smoking, bad diet and lack of excercise are merely the manifestations.
Scott
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Mickey
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Scott Waddell:
I’m fairly certain that nicotine is a drug.
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Scott_Waddell
Guest
Ok, but you have not established that it is a drug that applies in the CCC section for the reasons I mentioned. Alcohol is a drug, so is caffeine, yet no one seems to object to their use in every circumtance. It is not that people are pointing out the risks of smoking that I object to. It is the sweeping and frankly un-Catholic assertion that any and all tobacco use is sinful.
Scott
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Mickey
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Scott Waddell:
Yes, but alcohol and caffeine are not proven carcinogens.
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Scott_Waddell
Guest
That is irrelevant here because the CCC passage does not specify the objection to drugs based on their carcinogenic effects. The only objection here is the damage caused by the illegal production and criminal activity. This passage could be clearer about what constitutes a drug, but it can be reasonably inferred that drugs refer to heavily interdicted drugs.
Also, are you sure alcohol abuse doesn’t lead to cancer? Just about anything is carcinogenic if you do enough of it. And that is the whole point. Tobacco in moderate amounts along with heatlhy eating and excercise is far less risky than tooling around in your automobile.
Scott
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Mickey
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Scott Waddell:
It’s just a very passionate subject for me because I have been fighting the battle for 26 years. It is a vice that tears at the very core of my being day in and day out. The addiction is brutal and captive. I can feel the effects on my health, yet I am constantly drawn back to the addiction. To me, it is an evil vice that refuses to ease it’s deadly grip. To me, cigarette smoking is a spiritual struggle.
Well, it is often stated that nicotine is more addictive than either heroine or cocaine, but I do understand the point you are making.
It’s just a very passionate subject for me because I have been fighting the battle for 26 years. It is a vice that tears at the very core of my being day in and day out. The addiction is brutal and captive. I can feel the effects on my health, yet I am constantly drawn back to the addiction. To me, it is an evil vice that refuses to ease it’s deadly grip. To me, cigarette smoking is a spiritual struggle.
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hilde_the_dog
Guest
Scott Waddell:
Wow. At least back-door Quasi Calvinists appear to be against smoking. I can say true all the real Calvinist I knew and know have no problems with it. This would be my whole family and town I grew up in, I’m now Catholic. Hey my family let’s me smoke my pipe in their house until I quit.
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CLW001
Guest
It’s just a very passionate subject for me because I have been fighting the battle for 26 years. It is a vice that tears at the very core of my being day in and day out. The addiction is brutal and captive. I can feel the effects on my health, yet I am constantly drawn back to the addiction. To me, it is an evil vice that refuses to ease it’s deadly grip. To me, cigarette smoking is a spiritual struggle.
MICKEY are you saying you have been trying to quit for 26 years and can’t or you have quit for 26 years and tou still want to smoke?
MICKEY are you saying you have been trying to quit for 26 years and can’t or you have quit for 26 years and tou still want to smoke?
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Scott_Waddell
Guest
First off, thanks for keeping the discussion gentlemanly. Second, I hope you don’t take any of my defense as a stumbling block toward your quiting. I will pray for you in your struggle. My point is that even though many people are vulnerable to alcoholism and it would be flat out wrong for them to drink, plenty of other people can drink all their lives with no detrimental effects. All I’m saying is that a similar case can be made for tobacco and the Church in its wisdom has not gone Islamic/Mormon on us by absolutely prohibiting it.
Scott
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