Is smoking a mortal sin???

[Gottle_of_Geer]

???

It’s neither mortal, nor in itself a sin.​

It can be sinful in certain circumstances: depending on many things:

what is smoked
who is smoking
whether others are affected, and if so, how
why

…etc.

There are many variables - but smoking per se is not sinful ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

wcknight:

Everything in moderation including moderation.

Smoking is not a mortal sin, any more than drinking, or over eating or any other activitity. However if done in excess, we are over indulging and just about anything done in excess is sinful (and usually harmful to our heath).

I would say excessive drinking and then driving is more of a mortal sin than just smoking.

Just about anything we do may be harmful for us IF we overdo it.

A police officer recently died as a result of drinking too much WATER !!! The excessive amounts of water threw off his sodium levels and he had massive cellular damage.

I like to drink sodas, but I know if I drink too many sodas, the sugar (or the caffiene or the carbonation or the calories) will cause serious damage to my system.

It is not good for anyone to be addicted to any activitity. Smoking may be sinful but not a mortal sin unless done to excess. The tougher question is HOW MUCH smoking is okay, at what point is it just a minor sin, and when can it become a mortal sin ???

Which all goes to show that one cannot say “X is a mortal sin, therefore you are in a state of mortal sin if you do X” - because there are often circumstances which would make abstaining from X sinful. (Which is not to deny that certain things are always sinful - but many, are not; they may become sinful, because of circumstances. Giving one’s wages to the poor is a sin, if one should instead be supporting a family. Stealing from one’s employer to give to the poor is a sin. So sometimes giving to the poor (for example) can be wicked.)​

A great many things can change culpability, aggravating it, decreasing it, or leaving none at all. ##

 

[Valtiel]

mercygate:

Mickey’s answer is spot-on. Sixty years ago we did not have the evidence we now have that tobacco is a lethal weapon – a slow-acting one, but lethal anyway in most cases. So what might not have been “sin” for Pope Pius X, becomes sin for those, who with full knowledge and consent, take up a lethal weapon and point it at their own heads.

As stated, addiction lessens culpability but not the essence of the act.

BTW, great story about Pius X (hope it’s true). He was having a meeting in his personal apartment with a priest who had gone through some personal failings and was in the process of being rehabilitated. The Pope offered him one of his best cigars, and the priest said, “No thank you. I do not have that vice.”

The Pope responded, “If it were a vice, I wouldn’t be offering it to you.”

Smoking still isn’t a lethal weapon, I don’t think it ever really was.
I always thought Cigarettes wee for every advice given me, lethal and absolutely dangerous. All this anti-smoking trend fooled me well. I knew they were bogus when the anti’s ranted on about how cigarettes were so much dangerous then thought because big tobacco here added thousands of extra chemicals which included cianide and formaldahyde. But when additive free organic tobaccos came out, they screamed “oh no, you see organic tobacco is twice as dangerous as the additive ones”. Yeah that hit the bottom of the dung barrel of their credibility

I think this trend has gotten out control and well over zealous;
especially with this second hand smoke nonsense;

skepticism.net/faq/health_scares/ets/
ncpa.org/~ncpa/pd/pdenv4.html
junkscience.com/feb99/sexton.htm
joejackson.com/smokingissue.htm
www.davehitt.com/facts
www.junkscience.com
www.forces.org

Smoking is not that bad for, I’d say it’s just like alcohol, it’s good in moderation…

 

[rwoehmke]

I remember as a kid that my dad would soak some tabbaco in water and then spray the water on his garden plants to kill the insects. At some point it became possible to buy little bottles of nicotine concentrated solution. It carried a huige black skull and cross bones on the label. As a graduate student I worked in an industrial hygeine lab. We had some preserved lungs from coal miners and of smokers. Didn’t matter they were all black as the ace of spades. The list of chemicals found in cigarette smoke or if you wish the smoke of pure organic tobacco is a list of highly toxic materials. Some are carcinogens some just plain poison. Maybe if you like to smoke its not much worse than whipping yourself with rusty barbed wire from the horse manure pile. It won’t kill you on the spot. So if it feels good and tastes so good to you, well knock yourself out. Suicide by gun or rope is so messy.

 

[Valtiel]

rwoehmke:

I remember as a kid that my dad would soak some tabbaco in water and then spray the water on his garden plants to kill the insects. At some point it became possible to buy little bottles of nicotine concentrated solution. It carried a huige black skull and cross bones on the label.

Anti-smokers are quick to point out that pure nicotine is a poison, used as a pesticide. And it’s true that pure nicotine (a colorless, odorous liquid), is poisonous. According to the mens that to kill a 180 lb man, he’d have to drink about 80 mg of the stuff. Many other common substances, however, also have minimum lethal doses. According to the same source, ingesting a gram of caffeine is fatal.

In fact, many substances which are beneficial in small quantities are toxic in large quantities, including alcohol. My mother suffered a stroke some years ago. Her life was saved, and she recovered, by taking a blood ll, so he doubled it. My mother began hemorrhaging, and almost died from loss of blood. The blood thinner, which is life saving in small quantities, proved toxic in large quantities. Of course, most of the nicotine in tobacco is lost in the process of smoking. Only a little finds its way into the smoker’s bloodstream. That small quantity may account for some of the beneficial effects of smoking, e.g., improved mental concentration, wrads of heart disease, and improves memory(Fermingham Study).

As a graduate student I worked in an industrial hygeine lab. We had some preserved lungs from coal miners and of smokers. Didn’t matter they were all black as the ace of spades.

And that is the big difference between smoking 40 to 60 cigs a day and 10 or below. Same as with alcohol, you could show me all the damaged livers you wanted, but it’s from those who choose to leave common sense and moderation…

The list of chemicals found in cigarette smoke or if you wish the smoke of pure organic tobacco is a list of highly toxic materials.

Wrong, organic contains none of the carcinogens found in the addtive one. Additives such as formaldahyde in additves are what make them so dangerous, none of it is present in organic so it’s at least 10X better. It should also be noted that sheet tobbaco is why they use such chemicals and is a cost cutting measure. The more expensive the cigarettes, the more there are no additives.

Some are carcinogens some just plain poison. Maybe if you like to smoke its not much worse than whipping yourself with rusty barbed wire from the horse manure pile. It won’t kill you on the spot. So if it feels good and tastes so good to you, well knock yourself out. Suicide by gun or rope is so messy.

If there is a safe level of just about every poison known to man, and that some things in small doses that can be lethal in large doses can be beneficial especially alcohol, which if you recall this was the same attitude that was what led to prohibition, then cigarettes can as well be good for you in moderation…

 

[Valtiel]

lcolby.com/index.html

 

[Valtiel]

lcolby.com/index.html

bump

 

[Lazerlike42]

Anti-smokers are quick to point out that pure nicotine is a poison, used as a pesticide. And it’s true that pure nicotine (a colorless, odorous liquid), is poisonous. According to the mens that to kill a 180 lb man, he’d have to drink about 80 mg of the stuff. Many other common substances, however, also have minimum lethal doses. According to the same source, ingesting a gram of caffeine is fatal.

80mg? I was told that 1 drop of pure nicotine on the tongue would kill a person, and I have no reason to doubt my source for that information.

I happen to know plenty of people who smoked in their lives.

All of whom smoked 10 cigarettes a day or so.

1 had a heart attack. Another other got cancer. Another got stuck being perpetually sick until she gave it up.

That one is the biggest piece of evidence for me. This girl smoked I wouldn’t even say 5 cigarettes a day. From the day she started til the day she stopped she had a constant cold. Always sick. Then she quit, and in less than a week she was better.

The fact is that you are appealing to studies which agree with your desired conclusion. For instance, you pointed to the idea that small amounts of alcohol can be helpful. Yes, there are studies that say that. There are also studies that say that that is just rubbish. A person can find a study to say anything they want. People present studies to me all the time saying ridiculous things.

In fact, let me throw this one at you. We’ve been told for years that soy was so great and beneficial for us. But if you go and look, you’ll see all sorts of studies that say soy is actually pretty bad for us. Which is true? You mention evidence that says that this thing we have been saying is some horrible bane is great. I just mentioned evidence that says that this thing that we have always hailed as fantastic is great. It works both ways.

I go on experience then. What I’ve seen. And all the smokers I’ve seen have suffered from it.

 

[beckyann2597]

I grew up in CA where it illegal to smoke in any public place including a restaurant or bar. I was brought up to think that anybody who smoked was weak and trashy. I still do not hold very high regard for people who smoke. I would think that it is a mortal sin because from my upbringing, one couldn’t ever deny it would kill you. Why would you ever do something like that to yourself!!! I guess it depends on where you were raised…

 

[rjs1]

It is true that in previous generations smoking was not regarded as particularly bad. However we must take account of our vastly increased knowledge about the true effects of smoking on our bodies and on the bodies of those around us.

I think the Church may have to reconsider its position about the seriousness, and possible sinfulness, of smoking. St Paul tells us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and should be respected as such.

 

[Fox]

Scott Waddell:

Not in and of itself.

Several saints were noted smokers including Pope Pius X and martyr John Kemble, who after making final prayers had one last pipe with his jailer before execution. (There is apparently an expression from this called a “Kemble pipe”) In the canonization process a candidate’s tobacco use was sometimes brought up, but I don’t think there was ever a case of it disqualifying someone from sainthood.

From the CCC:

The key word being “excess”.

Scott

Most people do smoke in excess, and its of grave matter, you do give full consent and you know its bad for you.

Most people fail to see the gift that God had given each one of us, our bodies. There is absolutely no excuse to smoke, all addictions can be conquered, its just how bad you want to stop.

I don’t understand it, why do people destroy their bodies? Like getting overweight if these people are perfectly healthy, no excuse. I understand if there is a medical problem like a thyroid problem but, if there isn’t anything wrong with you, no excuse. Its called slothfulness or laziness or just plain ignorance on what needs to be done.

Most people eat crappy non nourishing foods laden with high fat, high sugar, artificial flavours and colours, geez! No excuse. We don’t live in the dark ages and we know now how bad certain foods and habits are. Ignorance will not lessen the effect, and people can’t hide behind it, people will answer for it in the next life.

Smoking and drinking and eating excessively, horrid. Your body is a gift! Treat it as such, there are plenty of people that their bodies are not well due to medical reasons. Do not squander what God our Father has given.

 

[thistle]

I’m pleased Valtiel opened up this thread from the other one.
Apart from CCC 2290 I just want to add that one of my books “How To Make A Good Confession” has an Imprimatur, Bishop of Paterson. Its my understanding that having an Imprimatur means the contents of the book are officially approved and free from any doctrinal errors.
The book states that excessive drinking and excessive smoking are mortal sins!

 

[InnocentIII]

Scott Waddell:

Right on. Along with the Iraq war, the subject of smoking sees the most attempts by people trying to elevate a pet peeve to binding Church teaching. So we see back-door quasi-Calvinists taking the round peg of smoking, putting it in the square hole of Church teachings on suicide, thou shalt not kill, temple of the Holy Spirit, etc., and trying to force it in with the hammer of their personal judgement.
Scott

Amen for injecting a note of sanity in this debate. I might add that here in Australia I have never heard or been told or had an official document produced that said anything about smoking being a sin. Excessive anything is of course the sin of gluttony, but moderate anything is not (unless it is illegal of course ). I think this must be an American issue. What angers me most is the self-righteous “I know what’s good for you” tone of those who should be practising charity in all things.

 

[InnocentIII]

Mickey:

I’m fairly certain that nicotine is a drug.

So is caffeine. Sigh, my 15 cups of coffee a day are going to keep me in the confessional for hours. A personal aversion to tobacco does not constitute grounds for declaring it a drug under CCC2291. Otherwise we would have to give up a great deal of what we eat, drink or do (driving cars for instance). I think the point made about the cult of the body is important. There is a belief, most definitely pagan because it is linked with fear of death and prolonging this earthly life for as long as possible, that if we do not do everything in our power to maximise our life span on earth we are being evil. To make a sin of smoking per se (as opposed to the sin of gluttony) is to trivialise sin and show ourselves to be little better than the atheists who fear that this life is all there is.

 

[thistle]

InnocentIII:

Amen for injecting a note of sanity in this debate. I might add that here in Australia I have never heard or been told or had an official document produced that said anything about smoking being a sin. Excessive anything is of course the sin of gluttony, but moderate anything is not (unless it is illegal of course ). I think this must be an American issue. What angers me most is the self-righteous “I know what’s good for you” tone of those who should be practising charity in all things.

With regard to your last sentence (What angers me most…) are you applying this to Father Corapi and all the priests who have said excessive smoking is a mortal sin?

 

[Valtiel]

Lazerlike42:

80mg? I was told that 1 drop of pure nicotine on the tongue would kill a person, and I have no reason to doubt my source for that information.

Well you should, you seriously should…

I

happen to know plenty of people who smoked in their lives.

So do I, thats why I started being skeptical of this anti smoking ****…

All of whom smoked 10 cigarettes a day or so.

I’ve known several people to to have smoked and lived to 80 with no health problems…

1 had a heart attack. Another other got cancer. Another got stuck being perpetually sick until she gave it up.

Doesn’t mean it’s conclusive, correlation does not mean cuasation, thats something one learns in statistics right??Since it seems your so knowledgable in it so you must have taken classes…

That one is the biggest piece of evidence for me. This girl smoked I wouldn’t even say 5 cigarettes a day. From the day she started til the day she stopped she had a constant cold. Always sick. Then she quit, and in less than a week she was better.

Sorry never known this, or even heard of it before from any anti smokers…

The fact is that you are appealing to studies which agree with your desired conclusion.

Wrong I am apealling to only one study(ferminghem), the bulk of those links ADRESS studies from the anti smoking authorities, very comprehnsively I might add…

For instance, you pointed to the idea that small amounts of alcohol can be helpful. Yes, there are studies that say that. There are also studies that say that that is just rubbish.

But you ignore the flaws of those said documents, same as the studies for anti smoking, only those are accpeted with zeal, and sometimes accepted even when the data is known to be flawed by both the one conducting the study and the commitee accepting the study. In fact this attempt here is nothing more then mere conjecture to excuse you absentee of any real ability to obviously adress the issues…

A person can find a study to say anything they want. People present studies to me all the time saying ridiculous things.

I can find anything too, but not all are from a truly scientific, statisical, or logical procedural and comprehensive stand point. This is again excusing, there is no actual point or relevence to this against an actual reputable study…

In fact, let me throw this one at you. We’ve been told for years that soy was so great and beneficial for us. But if you go and look, you’ll see all sorts of studies that say soy is actually pretty bad for us. Which is true? You mention evidence that says that this thing we have been saying is some horrible bane is great. I just mentioned evidence that says that this thing that we have always hailed as fantastic is great. It works both ways.

Still your point is irrelivant, and is still generalizing conjecture with every ignorance to statiscal study, I’ve already have adressed it elsewhere…

I go on experience then. What I’ve seen. And all the smokers I’ve seen have suffered from it.

I gon expirience and fact, no smoker I’ve seen has had ill effect, and no data trying to link it and ilk is ever by anymeans correct…

 

[InnocentIII]

This is what infuriates me. The smug, know-it-all attitude of anti-smoking crusaders who make bald assertions without the slightest evidential support.

agname:

1. First, alcohol and tobacco are completely different compounds.
2. Scientists have proven that just smoking one cigarette destroys lung tissue. We know that smoking causes cancer among numerous other ailments…emphysema…amd…etc.
3. The moderate utilization of alcohol does not have negative effects on the human body. The body can safely metabolize
   alcohol in low to moderate doses. Doctors are known to tell patients to drink two glasses of wine a day…in conjunction with prescribing either cestory, gemfibrozil, probucol, or clofibrate.
   Alcohol is believed to reduce the risk of coronary heart disease (at least in part) by reducing serum levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol.
4. 99.9% of doctors are against cigarette smoking

So…

One could argue smoking could be a mortal sin if one knows that just one cigarette destroys his/her body…but, they smoke and they continue to do so because they enjoy the high.

1. I’ll agree to this, but what is your point? Heroine and marijuana are different compounds too.
2. Just one glass of alcohol destroys brain cells. And how do we “know” that smoking causes all these things. because we have been told by “health experts” - the same experts who gave us the obesity crisis etc etc. We can only know if we have studied all the documents and research. And guess what, the research has conflicting results and conflciting interpretations. It’s like evolution - Darwin made some observations - drew some conclusions - expanded it into a general theory - and sold it as a fact. And people have been searching for the missing link ever since convinced it must be there despite all the failures to find it.
3. Alcohol destroys brain cells as I said above. It also causes liver damage. The body can metabolise alcohol and can handle a certain amount of tissue damage without harm. Ditto smoking. You can’t defend your tipple and attack another’s cheroot without being totally inconsistent. Equally excessive alcohol creates a greater risk of danger to those around you than smoking, hence the reason it is singled out with speed in CCC2290.
4. You have personally asked them have you? or surveyed them? or seen a survey of them? No!! Well then I guess you need to clarify 99.9% of which doctors. Or better still avoid making ambit claims with no empirical backing.

I would ask that people on this thread not only exercise charity but also avoid making claims that they cannot support just on the basis that they think this is the way it must be, otherwise we will lose whatever charity has gained for us.

 

[Valtiel]

Fox:

Most people do smoke in excess, and its of grave matter, you do give full consent and you know its bad for you.

No most people don’t smoke in accsess, another bias opinion from the anti smoking crowd…
And smoking again is not that bad for you, I’m getting tired of saying it…

Most people fail to see the gift that God had given each one of us, our bodies. There is absolutely no excuse to smoke, all addictions can be conquered, its just how bad you want to stop.

Yes there are plenty of reasons to smoke, especially for health benefits;
Some small quantity of nicotine does account for some of the beneficial effects of smoking, e.g., improved mental concentration;
studies suggest that tobacco contains a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI). MAOI’s are anti-depressants, which work by increasing serotonin levels in the brain. They are used in medicine to treat Parkinson’s disease, which may explain why a number of studies have shown that smokers have a far lower rate of Parkinson’s than non-smokers.

I don’t understand it, why do people destroy their bodies?

What I don’t understand is why you still cling to such incorrect notions…

Like getting overweight if these people are perfectly healthy, no excuse. I understand if there is a medical problem like a thyroid problem but, if there isn’t anything wrong with you, no excuse. Its called slothfulness or laziness or just plain ignorance on what needs to be done.

No it’s called enjoying a good smoke as well as enjoying the health benefits…

Most people eat crappy non nourishing foods laden with
high fat, high sugar, artificial flavours and colours, geez!

And some how thats supposed to be left out of all instances in a smokers diet, but no it was the smoking that killed him, no not the **** he ate…

No excuse.

Exactly

We don’t live in the dark ages and we know now how bad certain foods and habits are.

We might as well since we are being spoon fed flaws, lies, and ignorance. And we still don’t know jack about smoking…

Ignorance will not lessen the effect,

Ignorance will not lessen the fatc that anti smoking is vastly wrong…

and people can’t hide behind it, people will answer for it in the next life.

I doubt it’ll be an issue…

Smoking and drinking and eating excessively, horrid.

Yes, but moderation is good,and trying to slap on an “but smokers always smoke in excess” is baseless excusing…

Your body is a gift! Treat it as such, there are plenty of people that their bodies are not well due to medical reasons. Do not squander what God our Father has given.

No worries there…

 

[InnocentIII]

thistle:

With regard to your last sentence (What angers me most…) are you applying this to Father Corapi and all the priests who have said excessive smoking is a mortal sin?

Yes. the last time I checked Fr Corapi had not been elevated to the papacy, nor had he suddenly been endowed with the grace of infallibility. I have raised this issue with many priests over the years in discussions - not once have I been told that smoking per se is a sin let alone a mortal one. Are you holding up Fr Corapi as a higher authority than these? Priests are entitled to their own pet peeves too but they aren’t the magisterium.

 

[Valtiel]

agname:

A mortal sin requires knowledge and consent.

1. First, alcohol and tobacco are completely different compounds.

And whats your point? That doesn’t mean it isn’t beneficial or safe…

1. Scientists have proven that just smoking one cigarette destroys lung tissue. We know that smoking causes cancer among numerous other ailments…emphysema…amd…etc.

Scientists have proven no such thing, and if it had caused cancer then the 130 plus animal studies would have revealed some thing, they do not. Secondly the studies have been shown flawed, inclonclusive, or out of conctext in the links I have provided
And in case you haven’t gotten the memo empysemia is genetic, it’s very rare to get it from a chemical…
Not long ago some utteral infections were caused by smoking, so called reputable studies showed this, but guess what, it’s caused by bacteria. Gotta love that anti smoking aganda…

The moderate utilization of alcohol does not have negative effects on the human body. The body can safely metabolize
alcohol in low to moderate doses. Doctors are known to tell patients to drink two glasses of wine a day…in conjunction with prescribing either cestory, gemfibrozil, probucol, or clofibrate.
Alcohol is believed to reduce the risk of coronary heart disease (at least in part) by reducing serum levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol.

Indeed and smoking in moderation has heart benefits, mental benefits, and so forth…

1. 99.9% of doctors are against cigarette smoking

basing themselves on current data, which is flawed, and as the medical community as a whole has never been wrong before