is smoking cigarettes a sin?

[vz71]

What is defined as excess and moderation though? I have yet to see a straight answer for that regarding tobacco smoke.

Excess is the point at which you are no longer in control.
Moderation is the point at which control is maintained.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Excess is the point at which you are no longer in control.
Moderation is the point at which control is maintained.

A Gallup poll says that 81% of smokers wish they could quit. The fact that those 81% continue to smoke is evidence that they are not “in control”. Thus they are all smoking in excess.

 

[vz71]

A Gallup poll says that 81% of smokers wish they could quit. The fact that those 81% continue to smoke is evidence that they are not “in control”. Thus they are all smoking in excess.

Yes. Though the lack of control would likely mitigate responsibility in what would then be a sinful behavior.

The real sin is in letting yourself become addicted.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Yes. Though the lack of control would likely mitigate responsibility in what would then be a sinful behavior.

The real sin is in letting yourself become addicted.

Well, if that is true, then all smoking is a sin, since you can reasonably expect to become addicted when you start.

 

[vz71]

Well, if that is true, then all smoking is a sin, since you can reasonably expect to become addicted when you start.

Not at all.
It is only a reasonable expectation if you do this to an excess and begin to build a dependence upon it.

Of course, it is a slippery slope, but it does not always follow that one would become addicted if one were to indulge in this activity.

I know a few people that smoke infrequently. They may pick up a cig every now and then, but the average time it takes for them to go through a pack is greater then 6 months.
It would be a tough sell to claim they are addicted to anything.
And since this has been going on for years without any increase in the indulgence, one would also be hard pressed to claim the addiction slowly taking hold.

They simply smoke when the social occasion calls for it, and do not otherwise.

I would hardly characterize the behavior as either harmful or sinful.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Not at all.
It is only a reasonable expectation if you do this to an excess and begin to build a dependence upon it.

In light of the statistic I quoted, it occurs to 81% of smokers. Why would a reasonable person expect that he would be one of the lucky 19%? What could this reasonable person do to ensure that what happens to 81% of smokers does not happen to him?

Of course, it is a slippery slope, but it does not always follow that one would become addicted if one were to indulge in this activity.

You are right. It does not follow for everyone. But it does follow for a large fraction of smokers. How high does the probability need to be before a reasonable person would know the chances are just too great? Is it moral to play Russian Roulette just because the outcome is not certain?

 

[utah_rose]

One of the arguments that is used to support masturbation being a sin is that it is a disordered use of our sexual organs. Well, that same argument can be applied to the lungs. Our lungs were made for sustaining life by exchanging oxygen in the blood. And indeed the imagery of breath and life in the Bible elevate this function even higher. The lungs were not made to be a drug delivery system for an addictive drug. Yet people smoke cigarettes and do exactly that. Furthermore this disordered use of the lungs reduces the effectiveness of this life-sustaining organ. And it makes the smoker a slave to the drug. So if masturbation is a sin, surely smoking is a worse sin, right?
**

This is entirely different! As an ex-smoker (I quit about 25 years ago) I can tell you that this is like a drug addiction (nicotine) and some smokers have a very difficult time stopping. I take it that you are a male. Masturbation is a sexual sin and completely different than smoking as oranges are to apples. Alcoholism and drug addiction are also or more hard to overcome, where you certainly can control the misuse of your sexual organs.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

This is entirely different! As an ex-smoker (I quit about 25 years ago) I can tell you that this is like a drug addiction (nicotine) and some smokers have a very difficult time stopping. I take it that you are a male. Masturbation is a sexual sin and completely different than smoking as oranges are to apples. Alcoholism and drug addiction are also or more hard to overcome, where you certainly can control the misuse of your sexual organs.

I agree with you entirely. But I was only addressing one specific aspect of the two activities - that of abusing your body. I made no claim that the two were alike in any other way.

 

[vz71]

In light of the statistic I quoted, it occurs to 81% of smokers. Why would a reasonable person expect that he would be one of the lucky 19%? What could this reasonable person do to ensure that what happens to 81% of smokers does not happen to him?

Statistics are strange things.
They can tell you anything you want to hear.
I do not believe the statistics you have stated imply anything more then simply a percentage of people that regret smoking.

A more accurate statistic would be a percentage of people that have smoked in moderation but do not develop any type of addiction. If you have that, I would be curious to hear it.

You are right. It does not follow for everyone. But it does follow for a large fraction of smokers.

Do you know the statistics for this?
If not, you cannot claim the fraction to be high.

How high does the probability need to be before a reasonable person would know the chances are just too great?

Just how unreasonable are these odds?
I would agree with immorality of a behavior that contains such high risk of fatality.
Can such be shown in an occasional cigarette?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Statistics are strange things.
They can tell you anything you want to hear.
I do not believe the statistics you have stated imply anything more then simply a percentage of people that regret smoking.

If they simply regretted smoking, but were not addicted, then they would stop. But the 81% were still smoking. Therefore they were, by their own admission, addicted. And of the other 19% who did not want to quit, it is possible that some of them were addicted too. But since they did not want to quit and so were not trying to quit, there would be no way of knowing whether or not they were addicted. So if anything, the percentage of addicted smokers is even greater than 81%.

I would agree with immorality of a behavior that contains such high risk of fatality.
Can such be shown in an occasional cigarette?

I didn’t say the risk of fatality was that high. I said the risk of addiction was that high. Perhaps I should not have used the Russian Roulette analogy.

 

[kbwall]

This is entirely different! As an ex-smoker (I quit about 25 years ago) I can tell you that this is like a drug addiction (nicotine) and some smokers have a very difficult time stopping. I take it that you are a male. Masturbation is a sexual sin and completely different than smoking as oranges are to apples. Alcoholism and drug addiction are also or more hard to overcome, where you certainly can control the misuse of your sexual organs.

Masturbation and porn can also be incredibly addicting.

 

[vz71]

I didn’t say the risk of fatality was that high. I said the risk of addiction was that high. Perhaps I should not have used the Russian Roulette analogy.

Perhaps not. So let’s go with addiction…
Do we really have statistics on the number of people that smoke occasionally but are not addicted?

This 81% statistic seems a little dicey for me. Mainly because the levels of smoking I am speaking of barely would qualify as smoking and when asked these people may not say they smoke on the basis that they simply do not smoke on a regular basis.

The stat portrays smokers, but in actuality there are many people that smoke that would not consider themselves smokers.

People drink wine in a restaurant routinely. Does that make them ‘drinkers’?
No it doesn’t. Because the term implies much more then actually is.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Perhaps not. So let’s go with addiction…
Do we really have statistics on the number of people that smoke occasionally but are not addicted?

This 81% statistic seems a little dicey for me. Mainly because the levels of smoking I am speaking of barely would qualify as smoking and when asked these people may not say they smoke on the basis that they simply do not smoke on a regular basis.

The stat portrays smokers, but in actuality there are many people that smoke that would not consider themselves smokers.

People drink wine in a restaurant routinely. Does that make them ‘drinkers’?
No it doesn’t. Because the term implies much more then actually is.

Ah, good catch. I guess the statistic I quoted is based on people who self-identify as regular smokers. I don’t have any statistics on very occasional smokers, so how about you go find some and report back here. I know that anecdotal evidence is not as good as formal statistics, but of all the people I have known, only 2 or 3 of them would I call occasional smokers. The rest fall into either regular smokers or non smokers.

 

[vz71]

I remember years ago some anti-drug information was passed around indicating that 90% of all high school seniors admitted to smoking on occasion.

So if we are to believe this, One could extropolate between the high rate of smokers in high school and the rate of college smokers and see a difference.

Would this difference really indicate those simply never addicted?
I am uncertain.

All I know for certain is that I know several people that do smoke on occasion but display no dependence upon the cigarrettes at all.
And it is these individuals that I speak of when I state that cigarrette smoking is not sinful.

 

[anonymous1989]

Can someone define “moderate” tobacco use versus a “excessive” tobacco use. I smoke a pack a day and consider myself addicted.

 

[Eilrahc]

During my teen years, I heard this one rumor that Catholic Parishes have smoking sections in the sanctuary.

 

[jimmy]

A Gallup poll says that 81% of smokers wish they could quit. The fact that those 81% continue to smoke is evidence that they are not “in control”. Thus they are all smoking in excess.

All 81%. The others aren’t smoking in excess.

 

[jimmy]

Well, if that is true, then all smoking is a sin, since you can reasonably expect to become addicted when you start.

In that case drinking coffee and pop are sinful. Drinking alcohol is sinful. In fact, eating is sinful, because we are bound to become addicted to food as soon as we start eating.

 

[Mar044]

smoking will kill you, pop may kill you if not in moderation.

your pretty much killing yourself, you will get cancer just how long is random, i have no pity on smokers, if you cant buy the gum or in-hail medication in today’s age then its no different from mortal sin,

i hate these sugar coated answers about how its not…yes, it is, its shown its going to kill you, so your just a coward that killing himself the slow way.

go buy the gum and stop pretending like you can bend the rules. i mean would you smoke nightshade…you know that will kill you.

 

[thistle]

Can someone define “moderate” tobacco use versus a “excessive” tobacco use. I smoke a pack a day and consider myself addicted.

You have resurrected a thread that’s almost 2 years old. Against forums rules. You should start a new thread.