Is smoking Marijuana sinful?

[bingbang]

Are you Catholic?

I remember reading a book where a Jewish rabbi is quoted as saying something along the line of; it is important to obey the rules we do understand but even more important to obey the rules we don’t understand.

I’m not really Catholic. I was raised Catholic but I disagree with some teachings and I don’t go to church other than major holidays with my family. I’m not going to follow church rules that I don’t understand or see a point to doing. The law is written in my heart and I am fully capable of making my own decisions through rational moral thought.

BUT, you didn’t answer my question. Is alcohol in that same category?

 

[nickybr38]

I’m not really Catholic. I was raised Catholic but I disagree with some teachings and I don’t go to church other than major holidays with my family. I’m not going to follow church rules that I don’t understand or see a point to doing. The law is written in my heart and I am fully capable of making my own decisions through rational moral thought.

BUT, you didn’t answer my question. Is alcohol in that same category?

I’m not the Church, nor have I extensively studied it’s teachings but if I recall correctly drinking with the INTENT of getting drunk is in fact in that same category.

A glass of wine has been proven to be BENEFICIAL to ones health. What are the benefits of weed? Beyond making one feel good? Most often weed is used in medicine to relieve physical pain… if you have no pain to relieve you are seeking self pleasure and nothing else. If you have emotional pain to relieve weed will only mask it, not heal it.

Seeking self pleasure is the path to sin, which is why we are warned to avoid such things. They aren’t wrong just because the Church feels like making our lives miserable, they’re labelled ‘wrong’ because they encourage the wrong mindset, and are inspired by wrong motives.

That’s why I keep asking; what is the motivation behind wanting to smoke weed. Because the motivation is to feel good and that is a disordered approach to life. If we approach life with the intent of doing things only that make us feel good then we’ve missed the mark (sin, btw, means to miss the mark).

What is the motivation behind wanting to drink until you’re drunk? To feel good, to escape, to release your ‘inhibitions’… that too is disordered.

I find it curious that you believe you are capable of rational moral thought. Isn’t that a symptom of pride? Isn’t that, in fact, what the serpent promised Eve in the Garden? The ability to know right from wrong? Morality comes from God and is protected by His Church.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Please list the reasons why marijuana is evil morally. I have yet to find one legitimate one in this thread. For argument’s sake, lets say it is in an area where it is completely legal.

The legitimate reasons or the ones that are perceived/wanted to be acceptable? The legal reasons have been presented AND the legitimate reasons have been presented.

If one can’t see them, look harder.

 

[bingbang]

I’m not the Church, nor have I extensively studied it’s teachings but if I recall correctly drinking with the INTENT of getting drunk is in fact in that same category.

A glass of wine has been proven to be BENEFICIAL to ones health. What are the benefits of weed? Beyond making one feel good? Most often weed is used in medicine to relieve physical pain… if you have no pain to relieve you are seeking self pleasure and nothing else. If you have emotional pain to relieve weed will only mask it, not heal it.

Seeking self pleasure is the path to sin, which is why we are warned to avoid such things. They aren’t wrong just because the Church feels like making our lives miserable, they’re labelled ‘wrong’ because they encourage the wrong mindset, and are inspired by wrong motives.

That’s why I keep asking; what is the motivation behind wanting to smoke weed. Because the motivation is to feel good and that is a disordered approach to life. If we approach life with the intent of doing things only that make us feel good then we’ve missed the mark (sin, btw, means to miss the mark).

What is the motivation behind wanting to drink until you’re drunk? To feel good, to escape, to release your ‘inhibitions’… that too is disordered.

I find it curious that you believe you are capable of rational moral thought. Isn’t that a symptom of pride? Isn’t that, in fact, what the serpent promised Eve in the Garden? The ability to know right from wrong? Morality comes from God and is protected by His Church.

I like watching tv. It is not beneficial to me…I do it because I like watching tv. Does that mean I have a disordered approach to lie?

I don’t think you are guilty of pride if you say you are capable of rational moral thought. If I am not capable of rational moral thought, than neither is the pope, cardinals, bishops, or priests that advise the people on matters of morality. Only infallible teachings are straight from God…right? So everything else that the church teaches is derived from the rational moral thought of a human, just like my own.

We should all pursue happiness. Pursuing happiness does not need to be a sin. If I like playing a board game, is that disordered? What about if I like racing cars on a race track. That is far more dangerous to my health than weed with no real benefit. Do you think that is gravely disordered?

Jesus didn’t call on us to live without pleasure.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Again CCC 2291:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a wonderful document that can provide many answers to moral questions. Even specific ones:

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

The first sentence: The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life.

Note that the sentence doesn’t state illegal drugs, recreational drugs, designer drugs, home-brew drugs, street drugs, legal drugs. Drugs.

The second sentence: Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

This doesn’t mean “I need therapy (wink, wink)”. If the therapeutic grounds are misrepresented then then one has broken the Eighth Commandment (bearing false witness) as well as civil law (if applicable). Strictly therapeutic grounds

The third sentence: Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices.

The third sentence sates “drugs”. Again, not illegal, street, etc., drugs. Drugs That means one cannot produce AND distribute their own clandestine (secret, without legitimate authority) “aspirin” or aspirin. scandalous practices

The fourth sentence: They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

The fourth sentence should not need explanation. If one is deceived that it’s OK or don’t-know-what-to think to have direct co-operation in evil and encourage practices gravely contrary to the moral law, then discuss the subject (including what evil, gravely and moral law mean) with an ordained priest or bishop. Or, look up the subjects in the Catechism, the subjects are there!

Moral and legal reasons.

 

[pcg2]

Then look for the arguments against: It is illegal, it is against the Fifth Commandment for the numerous reasons listed.

Fine. I’ll agree that for the sake of argument that we shouldn’t do it because of the legality issue. But what of my example of Amsterdam? It would not be illegal there. To me it seems like this is a bit subjective as to what time zone you live in.

It is possible to participate in the sins of another. If your friend heads into a path of evil because of you, not only will he be accountable to God for his actions, you will also. Why? Because you have been revealed the Truth and misrepresented it.

How so? And I see no difference that if I were to go to a party and offer a friend a glass of wine. Would that be participating in his sin? I understand that if I wre to try to deliberately get a friend high, then that would be sinful… but giving a person a joint? I don’t know…

Do you acknowledge The Catholic Church and accept what it teaches? Why lead a friend into something against your stated faith and God? Who would lead a friend against God.

I certainly do. I want to be 100% faithful to the teachings of the magesterium. But I am trying to figure out if marijuana even applies to the “drugs” that the CCC refers to. And if so, why not alcohol or cigarettes? Not a single person (as of yet) has presented a strong argument as to why marijuana in moderation is sinful in and of itself.

Look, I have never smoked weed nor do I intend to ever do so. I just want to be more knowledgeable on this subject and a good way to do that is play devil’s advocate and debate about it, correct? Well that’s what I came here to do. To find out Truth. And no one so far has been able to put forward a compelling argument as to why marijuana is sinful.

 

[sean_jackson]

Are you Catholic?

I remember reading a book where a Jewish rabbi is quoted as saying something along the line of; it is important to obey the rules we do understand but even more important to obey the rules we don’t understand.

I am Catholic. As I have already stated, its not a matter of obedience. It’s a matter of what the rule is saying. And it should not be so difficult to understand whether or not the church says it’s a mortal sin to smoke pot in a country where it is legal.

 

[pcg2]

The first sentence: The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life.

Note that the sentence doesn’t state illegal drugs, recreational drugs, designer drugs, home-brew drugs, street drugs, legal drugs. Drugs.

So would you include aspirin? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Flinstones cough syrup? Tylenol?

This is what I don’t understand. They don’t make a distinction, and neither do you. By your logic, all pharmacies should be shut down immediately.

The second sentence: Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

This doesn’t mean “I need therapy (wink, wink)”. If the therapeutic grounds are misrepresented then then one has broken the Eighth Commandment (bearing false witness) as well as civil law (if applicable). Strictly therapeutic grounds

Fair enough. But once again, what of other “drugs?” So the person who smokes cigarettes or drinks alcohol for non therapeutic purposes is sinning? Huh?

The third sentence: Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices.

The third sentence sates “drugs”. Again, not illegal, street, etc., drugs. Drugs That means one cannot produce AND distribute their own clandestine (secret, without legitimate authority) “aspirin” or aspirin. scandalous practices

I agree whole-heartedly.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

So would you include aspirin? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Flinstones cough syrup? Tylenol?

This is what I don’t understand. They don’t make a distinction, and neither do you. By your logic, all pharmacies should be shut down immediately.

Fair enough. But once again, what of other “drugs?” So the person who smokes cigarettes or drinks alcohol for non therapeutic purposes is sinning? Huh?

I agree whole-heartedly.

That isn’t my logic at all read the entire paragraph. Context matters. Drugs inflict harm to the body. Some people have exhibit different side-effects than others, some experience them worse. What might seem fine to some may be deadly for others. An uniformed combination of drugs can be deadly. Peanuts can be deadly. That is why, in part, the Government makes a distinction between over-the-counter and prescription drugs. That is why manufacturers are required to label whether or not food was processed by machinery that has had contact with peanuts. People can abuse over-the-counter drugs and inflict the same sin as illegal drugs. People do exactly that. If I knew I were allergic to peanuts and knowingly ate them anyway that would be a sin. That is why the Catechism states Drugs, lest some clever person attempts to redefine the word “drug” to wiggle their way out of sin. God is not fooled.

Are you considered a minor in the USA? Have you discussed this question with a priest? Are you listening to your priest? Are you listening God?

Cigarettes are sin. They are abused and harmful crimes are done for them – anyone try to smuggle cigarettes into prison? Don’t. The unwary are lured into a lifetime of bad habit, potential cancer. The discussion can go on forever. Alcohol is a controlled substance. Breaking the legitimate law is a sin. Pharmacies don’t have to be shut down, they (hopefully) control and distribute legitimate and therapeutic drugs lawfully and morally.

The Catholic Church and the legitimate law say “don’t”. While one can “move away” from legitimate law, they can’t escape Church Law.

If one desires to sin, Satan will encourage it and God will permit it.

If you are at the age of reason, then use it (keeping in mind that reason can be used for both good and evil).

 

[sean_jackson]

Cigarettes are sin. They are abused and harmful crimes are done for them – anyone try to smuggle cigarettes into prison? Don’t. The unwary are lured into a lifetime of bad habit, potential cancer. The discussion can go on forever. .

The church does not say cigarettes are a sin. See this is the problem. Nobody can agree on what the church teaches on drugs and what drugs this includes. What i do see is that many here agree the church does not say I can not smoke pot in Amsterdam.

Or get a note from a doctor and smoke it in Michigan.

 

[Spirithound]

Are you Catholic?

I remember reading a book where a Jewish rabbi is quoted as saying something along the line of; it is important to obey the rules we do understand but even more important to obey the rules we don’t understand.

Excuse me, but this is a conversation-ender. The whole point of this forum is to discuss things and try to understand.

A glass of wine has been proven to be BENEFICIAL to ones health. What are the benefits of weed? Beyond making one feel good? Most often weed is used in medicine to relieve physical pain… if you have no pain to relieve you are seeking self pleasure and nothing else. If you have emotional pain to relieve weed will only mask it, not heal it.

That’s why I keep asking; what is the motivation behind wanting to smoke weed. Because the motivation is to feel good and that is a disordered approach to life. If we approach life with the intent of doing things only that make us feel good then we’ve missed the mark.

What about scotch? I know at least one priest who enjoys a scotch on the rocks. Or beer? I actually just returned from a social gathering of priests, deacons, and seminarians of my diocese, and a table of a dozen priests consumed 3 pitchers of beer.

CCC 2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

The first sentence: The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life.

Note that the sentence doesn’t state illegal drugs, recreational drugs, designer drugs, home-brew drugs, street drugs, legal drugs. Drugs.

What about ethynol?

 

[BobObob]

BobObob;6936158:

If one isn’t doing something immoral in itself (like wreckless driving or getting drunk) then IMHO it is moral to break the law if you are capable of taking the risk of the civil penalties. This is why one may morally drive drive 70 mph on a road with a speed limit of 65 and risk getting a ticket if

it’s safe to drive at that speed in that situation. On the other hand, if one has children who are dependent on him, one may not risk being put in jail (since doing so would be risking the welfare of the children), even for something that is not immoral in itself (unless it is a double effect situation).

The legitimate authority has set the speed limit. The legitimate authority also defines reckless driving and getting drunk. If one has been informed by the legitimate authority, knowingly weighing the civil penalties versus morality is placing the moral and civic judgment in one’s own hands.

Is there anything wrong with using one’s own discretion, rather than civil law, to decide morality?

Let’s remember what government is. Government is a creation by man, not by God (with the exception of ancient Israel). Government, when it’s doing what most people want it to, structures itself and makes laws to keep people’s persons and property safe, thus preserving life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (see Declaration of Independence). In making these laws, it typically sets punishments for violating various laws. Considering this, would it be absolutely evil to disobey government (creation of man) even if it is not necessary, provided that it doesn’t infringe on other people’s rights to life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness (and isn’t something intrinsically immoral)? No.

Moral relativism is a serious issue and so-called “changing with the times” have led to the widely accepted permission of abortion, contraceptives, same-sex “marriage”, liturgical abuses and various evils that plague the world today.

Moral relativism is something much different. Moral relativism is the idea that there are NO moral absolutes. The idea that the morality of various things can be relative is not the same thing. That’s why I said:

If one isn’t doing something immoral in itself (like wreckless driving or getting drunk) then…

 

[nickybr38]

*Excuse me, but this is a conversation-ender. The whole point of this forum is to discuss things and try to understand. *

I apologize. I did not mean it in that spirit. I do believe the reasons why marijuana use is wrong was covered already in this thread and when you have asked the questions and the horse has been beat to death you have to reach a point where you go forward with faith.

 

[BobObob]

I haven’t seen any sufficiently good argument in this thread which shows that the use of marijuana is intrinsically wrong, even if it’s against the law.

The commandment, “Honor your father and mother”, has been cited to make the point that we must obey all laws of civil government (provided that doing so wouldn’t be doing evil). However, there are many problems with this. One of these problems is that this commandment is referring to the parents, not other authorities. We do have certain obligations regarding to our society, and thus to our man-made government, but these don’t fall under the ten commandments.

Many interpret this commandment to mean that one must obey the government like a parent because like a parent, a government’s authority comes from God. However, this thinking is flawed since the government is a creation of man, not God.

Regarding what the Catechism of the Catholic Church say, the Catechism of the Catholic Church was created to be “[A] sure norm for teaching the faith” (vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19921011_fidei-depositum_en.html) rather than a document that’s infallible itself. Many of the teachings in it are infallible, but the CCC didn’t make them infallible. CCC 11, in part, says, “[The CCC] is intended to serve as a point of reference foe the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries.” Even though the CCC isn’t in itself infallible, it’s often an excellent source. For more on this, see the following thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=458259&page=10

CCC 2291 is certainly not infallible.

CCC 2291 has several problems. For example, it does not define “drugs”. It says that drugs inflict very grave damages on the person. In reading it, one gets them sense that what it’s trying to get at is that the change of one’s consciousness is evil, and thus substances that do this are evil without being done for therapeutic reasons. However, if this is the case, drinking some wine, or even Holy Communion in the species of wine, would be evil.

One may also get the sense that what CCC 2291 is trying to get at is that no one may loose consciousness without a sufficiently good reason. I would agree with this. This entails moderation.

If you’re not sure if you agree with what I said above, you’re not sure if you have enough knowledge and self-restraint to take properly moderate dosages, or if you’re not sure if a drug (caffeine, alcohol, or marijuana) is safe, play it safe and stay away from it.

 

[sean_jackson]

If marijuana was so threatening to out souls, then why have i never heard any warnings from heaven. A visionary mentioning it’s dangers. A Church Father or Saints writings warning of its damage. Weed has been around since the church. Why not any mention of it. God being all knowing wants his people to argue about a plant which could save or damn our souls?

 

[Monte_RCMS]

List all the chemicals found in marijuana.

List all the chemicals found in marijuana.

[Still no responses.]

 

[bingbang]

List all the chemicals found in marijuana.

[Still no responses.]

What is your point? I’m not a chemist. List all the chemicals found in a rosary.

 

[Spirithound]

I apologize. I did not mean it in that spirit. I do believe the reasons why marijuana use is wrong was covered already in this thread and when you have asked the questions and the horse has been beat to death you have to reach a point where you go forward with faith.

Apology accepted, dear friend! I know that it seems like there is irrational resistence going on on the part of those saying marijuana is not inherently sinful, but I believe that we are really getting somewhere!

If I may offer a summary:

1. • Where it is illegal, marijuana is immoral because we have a duty to follow legitimate authority
   • If it is not illegal, two important points follow:
   • The secular government is not compelling us on pain of sin
   • We are not supporting organized crime, since the mob does not deal in legal substances.
   • Over-consumption of marijuana falls under the same sin of gluttony that over-consumption of alcohol does
   • CCC 2291 either applies to both marijuana and alcohol, or neither.
   I think #4 is most in need of discussion.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

What is your point? I’m not a chemist. List all the chemicals found in a rosary.

We are not permitted to ingest substances that are harmful [in the quantities that might be harmful; even water in large enough quantities can be harmful].

Rosaries are not normally ingested. Even so, we do not make the beads out of the nuts or berries of poisonous plants.

Persons in favor of smoking marijuana should have no problem demonstrating its harmlessness by providing a list, even if they are not personally chemists.

So, therefore, since the idea of smoking marijuana is to ingest it, then … please list the chemicals found in marijuana.

 

[bingbang]

We are not permitted to ingest substances that are harmful [in the quantities that might be harmful; even water in large enough quantities can be harmful].

Rosaries are not normally ingested. Even so, we do not make the beads out of the nuts or berries of poisonous plants.

Persons in favor of smoking marijuana should have no problem demonstrating its harmlessness by providing a list, even if they are not personally chemists.

So, therefore, since the idea of smoking marijuana is to ingest it, then … please list the chemicals found in marijuana.

List the ingredients in a twinkie. Is it a sin to eat a twinkie? What about medicine? All medicine has some side effects that are harmful? So are we not permitted to take tylenol because it is bad for the liver?