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David_Zampino
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Amen!
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David_Zampino
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Full Disclosure: I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. Nor do I particularly condone it. I do OCCASIONALLY enjoy a pipe or a good cigar.
Second-hand smoke is certainly an annoyance, and to many people, is an irritant or even an allergy.
ALL THIS BEING SAID: the fact of the matter is, is that the current anti-tobacco hysteria is based largely (**NOT **entirely, but largely) on very questionable science. The US Government had to redefine “statistically significant” with regard to smoking related illnesses in order to get the results they wanted, and the World Health Organization has done the same.
For me, we’re back to the question of “excessive”, and to the question of courtesy. I would certainly never choose to deliberately offend in this manner, and to do so would be sinful – but the sinful act would be the deliberate rudeness – NOT the use of tobacco itself. And frankly, some non-smokers offend in this manner as well.
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twhicke
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David Zampino said:
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m134e5
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I’m not sure it’s exactly against Church teaching- it’s just disgusting, and it is very inconsiderate to do it in front of those who may find the smell offensive, and to do it just before meeting someone who may find the smell offensive (it doesn’t leave you when you put the cigarette out- if you’ve just smoked, you make the people around you stink too).
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twhicke
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So is eating a lot of food… That is disgusting. There are alot of things that could be disgusting to one person or another… That wasn’t the point of this discussion. It was not “Are you for or against smoking and why?”, it is whether or not it is against the church’s teaching.
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Myangel
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A work colleague of mine was smoking a cigarette at a Cafe when this lady asked him to move because it was bothering her, so politely he put the cigarette out rather than moving. About 10 minutes passed and he asked the lady politely to move as her perfume was bothering him, this lady’s husband told his wife since the man was nice enough to put out his cigarette she should move or have a shower. Cigarette/cigars are not the only disgusting or bothering smells.
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frogman80
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I have posted this in a few other threads:
I cannot verify if all of this is 100% fact. This info is NOT to add an argument that we should all become tobacco users. I posted this in another thread because I was hoping some might be able to add to the list, or verify some of the information. Again… want to note that for the few saints that are on this tiny list, there are many more Saints who are not!
St. Joseph of Cupertino - Snuff - His was the first case in which the use of tobacco was an issue during canonization process. His advocate successfully argued that snuff-taking was an aid to holiness.
St. John Bosco - Snuff & Smoke -
St. Pius X - Smoker - Occasionally borrowed cigarettes from Swiss Guards. When reprimanding a bishop for his scandalous misbehavior with wine, women and song, the pope offered the errant bishop a cigar from the papal humidor on his desk. The bishop declined the offer with the protestation, “I do not have that vice, Your Holiness,” to which His Holiness replied, “If cigars were a vice, I would not offer you one, for you have quite enough vices already.” Tobacco use was an issue during canonization process.
St. John Kemble - Pipe - Martyred in England. When the hour of execution arrived, he persuaded the official to delay a bit until he had finished his prayers, smoked a pipe and had a drink (alcohol). The offical joined him.
Saint Vincent de Paul - Snuff - Tobacco use was an issue during canonization process.
St. Bernadette - Snuff - Her snuff box is a relic on display in Lourdes. Took snuff for her asthma.
Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati - Pipe - He smoked a pipe, enjoyed female society, took delight in poetry and operas, and called himself Robes Pierre.
I cannot verify if all of this is 100% fact. This info is NOT to add an argument that we should all become tobacco users. I posted this in another thread because I was hoping some might be able to add to the list, or verify some of the information. Again… want to note that for the few saints that are on this tiny list, there are many more Saints who are not!
St. Joseph of Cupertino - Snuff - His was the first case in which the use of tobacco was an issue during canonization process. His advocate successfully argued that snuff-taking was an aid to holiness.
St. John Bosco - Snuff & Smoke -
St. Pius X - Smoker - Occasionally borrowed cigarettes from Swiss Guards. When reprimanding a bishop for his scandalous misbehavior with wine, women and song, the pope offered the errant bishop a cigar from the papal humidor on his desk. The bishop declined the offer with the protestation, “I do not have that vice, Your Holiness,” to which His Holiness replied, “If cigars were a vice, I would not offer you one, for you have quite enough vices already.” Tobacco use was an issue during canonization process.
St. John Kemble - Pipe - Martyred in England. When the hour of execution arrived, he persuaded the official to delay a bit until he had finished his prayers, smoked a pipe and had a drink (alcohol). The offical joined him.
Saint Vincent de Paul - Snuff - Tobacco use was an issue during canonization process.
St. Bernadette - Snuff - Her snuff box is a relic on display in Lourdes. Took snuff for her asthma.
Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati - Pipe - He smoked a pipe, enjoyed female society, took delight in poetry and operas, and called himself Robes Pierre.
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snoopy
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So are you saying that because you know several priests that smoke, that smoking is not a sin? Are you saying that priests don’t sin? Do you really think that people don’t know that smoking kills?
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pippin
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Amen. Both my parents-in-law died from the effects of cigrette smoke, but only one was a smoker. Another point, with so many people in the world starving and dieing of AIDS, how can anyone justify spending so much money on cigarettes?
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EsclavoDeCristo
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You don’t think that it could be sinful for some and not sinful for others?
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David_Zampino
Guest
The question here is “does one smoke to excess – tobacco gluttney” or “am I sinning against charity by my use of tobacco”.
If one is doing neither, I don’t see how one is sinning.
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twhicke
Guest
IMHO, I think you’re right. It is whether or not someone knows something is wrong or not that makes it a sin. Someone who starts smoking at the age of 10 doesn’t necessarily know that it is wrong, where as the same probably can’t be said for a 20+ year old…
In Him,
Tim
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snoopy
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David Zampino:
Even one cigarette is harmful. Any amount of smoking does damage not only to the smoker, but to the people around them breathing second hand smoke. Also, eventually anyone that smokes long enough will become addicted. I read that cigarettes are more addictive than heroin. With what we know now about addiction and the fact that smoking kills, how can it not be a sin?
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geojack
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How do you explain the Vatican selling them if smoking them is a sin? I think I heard this from Fr. Pacwa.
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David_Zampino
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With all due respect, this is nonsense. The scientific research suggests that negative effects only kick in at a certain level. Also, you need to define what constitutes “addiction”. This is a loaded term with little or no real meaning. While it is true that NICOTINE at certain levels is more addictive than heroine – it DOES NOT FOLLOW that one cigarette falls into this category.
Again, I have ***NEVER ***smoked a cigarette in my life – but I am VERY concerned about the difference between reality and propaganda.
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Scott_Waddell
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David Zampino:
Which basically concludes that nicotine does not stand up to a rigorous definition and when the definition is broadened to include it, it includes so many other things it becomes trivial.
Scott
Yes, there are HUGE problems with concept of addiction (mostly no consensus on what it is.) Check out: forces.org/evidence/download/nicotine_addiction.pdf
Which basically concludes that nicotine does not stand up to a rigorous definition and when the definition is broadened to include it, it includes so many other things it becomes trivial.
Scott
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snoopy
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David Zampino:
Take it from a smoker, it is a b—h to quit! Only those of us who have smoked and tried to quit can really appreciate the level of addiction it is. One cigarette is enough to lead you to smoke another, and another, and another, etc. Especially if the mindset is that it is “cool”.Believe me, there is no propoganda when I say that cigarettes are addictive.
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mjdonnelly
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For my father in law, it is probablu mortal sin, he quit more than once, to go back to it after months off.
Because he felt “stressed”
Because he felt “stressed”
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Scott_Waddell
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In my teenage years I smoked 'cause it was cool. I got bored of it and stopped (no withdrawl, no difficulty). Again, in grad school for a brief period, and then switching to pipes (again for social reasons) and stopping when I soured my pipe due to improper technique I picked up the pipe in my late thirties and learned proper technique and have been enjoying it for about half a year. (This time not for social reasons, but for simple pleasure/relaxation/contemplation) I only smoke a few bowls a week with no desire to increase this.
Again, I’m not denying that smoking can become a compulsion, and perhaps some have a predisposition toward a bad habit, but responsibility belongs to the individual rather than going in for the modern (and frankly un-Catholic) notion that a personal failure to cultivate the virtue of temperance is someone/something else’s fault.
Scott
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mjdonnelly
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Only doing it infrequently would not be a sin, since drinking in moderation is not, even though it still does damage to the body. It is the chain smoking, letting it run your life that is the sinful part. My father in law didn’t go on a cruise with his wife because he was worried about where to smoke.
My mother in law still went, she just paid for my wife to go with her.
My mother in law still went, she just paid for my wife to go with her.
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