Is sociopathy evil or a mental disorder? Can a sociopath be healed?

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My brother has had a tumultuous relationship with his ex girlfriend for 8 years or so. I trully think this woman is a borderline sociopath. She is a master manipulator. She lies all the time. It even seems like she will believe her lies as soon as she tells them. In conversation, she says exactly the right thing. She uses people to get what she wants. She seems to have no remorse. She is extremely charming.

She says she was abused as a child, but it is hard to know because she has lied about her past. In fact, she had the father of her first two children arrested for sexual abuse, then years later, said it was just a misunderstanding. You can’t trust anything she says–she will even lie about things that don’t matter like whether or not she likes a tv show. She’s lied about her brothers hitting her. She’s lied about my brother hitting her. She is very convincing.

I don’t know if she is just evil or mentally ill or if its all twisted up inside her. Of course, we pray for her.

Whether or not she really is a sociopath, sociopaths really confuse me.

Is it a mental illness? Can they be healed? Are they responsible for their evil actions? Are they trully incapable of remorse–thus they can’t repent. Are they then just perpetually damaged children? Could they be possessed?

Any ideas?
 
This may not be what this lady you described has, but it sounds close…

There are children who are so abused and/or neglected when they are younger that they cannot trust, lie constantly and often attack those who should be closest to them. They are unable to form an attachment and often seek “revenge” on the adults in their lives who represent their parents who initially abused them. When adults, these people still seek revenge against the “parents”, by making an adult representative of their parents and attacking them. So a husband might make his wife a “mother figure” and also attack her, either by lies or in other ways.

The problem comes in that they can’t receive kindness as such, but are hurt by it and have to destroy it. Any good, such as a hug or a gift, must be twisted to fit their needs or it is actually physically painful for them. A freely given gift would be broken, a hug would physically hurt unless the event was initiated by them to manipulate the other person.

Is it a mental illness? The condition I’m referring to is more of a learned conditional behavior that turns into a mental illness. It’s a coping strategy developed when neglected in youth. Since they didn’t get the nurturing they needed they learned to “not need it” and filled the void with something other. Unfortunately that other is so twisted that the human mind cannot hold it and it breaks down into other disorders (mania/multiple personality/psychosis/etc). This isn’t to say people with these disorders were all abused, but the abused tend to get the disorder because the coping strategy is so destructive to their mind.

Are they responsible for their evil actions? Only the Lord truly knows that. I do know that the actions they commit are choices they make, but they are making the best choice they can see to make. They are choosing a good for themselves in the same way the drug addict chooses the cocaine as a good because the emotional pain and withdrawal is too horrid to deal with. But then, there is also the question of the first sin that sent them down that path, are they responsible for the choice they made in childhood to cope in such a destructive way? I’ve left it up to the Lord’s mercy in the cases I know of.

Are they truly incapable of remorse–thus they can’t repent? Little children feel no remorse or even shame before the age of three. At three they begin to feel a shame in the effect of “I’ve been caught so I feel shame.” It’s not until they reach about the age of seven (age of reason) that they begin to feel true remorse. These stages only come about if the child has been properly taught and disciplined during the early years. If there was never a bond with the parents then no shame can develop for being caught and therefore no remorse. These people are stuck in a perpetual state of pleasure versus pain. It is painful to do what I don’t want and pleasurable to do what I do want, therefore anything is justified to get such. As for repentance, only the Lord knows that as only he can bring their hearts the healing they need to truly repent if they are in fact responsible.

Are they then just perpetually damaged children? Yes, but they must desire healing on some level in order to be healed.

As for healing, if children who have this are caught early, there is a good chance at recovery if given the right treatment. They must learn strict obedience to a caregiver to learn that their needs will be met without manipulation. They are basically stripped of all control and are given it back as they earn it. They thus learn to trust the caregiver again. It’s a boot camp philosophy, take away all control, build a bond and trust, then give bits back as earned.

When they reach teen years however it is more difficult to do this stripping since they are “independent” and hold onto that control more. An adult would be in a difficult situation, they would need to be inserted into a boot camp type area for an indefinite period of time while healing took place, if that person allowed healing at all. It becomes a choice to stay broken, again like a drug addict who chooses the drug over the cure because the cure appears more evil and horrid.

Could they be possessed? While I can understand the belief that possession might be there, there are specific criteria for determining a demonic possession. First the person must have a knowledge of something they shouldn’t (a language they’ve not been taught, or something hidden – psychic abilities) Second they need to have superhuman strength and third, they must have an aversion for religious objects. When dealing with a child a thought was possessed it helped to remember this, thus the demon talk was nothing but memories of horror films she’d seen.

I hope this helps, and I will also pray for this lady.
 
well I studied psychology for a time and have not resolved the quetsion either.

I think some people are genuinely ill and deserve sympathy and protection from themselves.

But, I also think that we are too ready to label people nowadays and I think that sometimes mental disorder stems from actions. A kind of chicken or egg idea.

I think that modern society does not have a God and so it cannot make sense of why, for exmaple, someone may kill fifteen people. They label them as crazy because the concept of evil has lost its meaning in our society.

So I think some are ill and therefor do evil things
and some are evil and make themselves ill in doing so.
 
Thanks for the comments so far. It’s so hard to deal with anti-social personality disorders.

I trully hope that this lady I’ve mentioned is not cupable for her actions. But, boy, has she spread havoc!!

If sociopaths have an ill formed conscience which evaluates choices on the basis of effects on self, then their consciences can be reformed.

But, if they are so damaged that they are incapable of forming a conscience, then they wouldn’t be culpable, I would think.

Can someone like this change? From what I’ve observed, people like this seem incapable of change.

If this condition is the result of neglect and abuse, then perhaps their caretakers would be held accountable by God for not only the evil they did but the evil done by their children…
 
Can someone like this change? From what I’ve observed, people like this seem incapable of change.

If this condition is the result of neglect and abuse, then perhaps their caretakers would be held accountable by God for not only the evil they did but the evil done by their children…
If she wants to change then she can to an extent. If she has a personality disorder then her personality will be formed now…at her age… beyond being able to return to a ‘normal’ personality. People with real personality disorders often do not see things the way you see them and will not believe they can benefit from help… though most can then live out their lives using coping strategies learnt during therapy. Depending on the severity she will not be ‘normal’ in her response to other people but she is able to learn better how to cope with her situation and social situations around her

If she is responsible for her actions then she will be able to change if she so wishes with help from a counsillor to help her see why she behaves in such a way. Often there may be past histories which make these actions perfectly understandable, her actions are still free will in this instance but deserving of massive sympathy.

S
 
Thanks for the comments so far. It’s so hard to deal with anti-social personality disorders.

I trully hope that this lady I’ve mentioned is not cupable for her actions. But, boy, has she spread havoc!!

If sociopaths have an ill formed conscience which evaluates choices on the basis of effects on self, then their consciences can be reformed.

But, if they are so damaged that they are incapable of forming a conscience, then they wouldn’t be culpable, I would think.

Can someone like this change? From what I’ve observed, people like this seem incapable of change.

If this condition is the result of neglect and abuse, then perhaps their caretakers would be held accountable by God for not only the evil they did but the evil done by their children…
I honestly don’t know, and I don’t think we’ll find out until the next life. There are so many views to take on this…

They may not be cupible in the sense that we are, but they do have a responsibility for what they’ve done. I suppose this would be like how a mortal sin can be non-mortal if either full intent or desire isn’t present. They don’t have the ability to fully make that decision and may; therefore, not be fully cupible.

However, they are not incapable of making a decision and; therefore, do have a responsibility for their actions. Obviously the more they choose evil the less likely they are to turn away from it, but there is that initial choice of evil that they are fully responsible for. Like the man who chooses to take a drink more than he can handle and then cannot think through the decisions he made afterwards, which caused him to do something inappropriate. He is responsible for the drink and the knoweldge that he may not make the right choices. He is responsible for ammending his ways to prevent something worse in the future, but should he choose not to it will be harder for him to repent next time and the consequence will be worse.

Are the parents responsible? I think to an extent they are, but then if their parents (the grandparents) failed them, then it’s the grandparent’s fault. It’s that “sin of the father passed down to the seventh generation”. It isn’t so much God’s punishment, but our own fallen nature that causes that to be.

As for healing, that may be what purgatory is, a stripping of all control so they can learn to love truly and completely. That is what we all need, for we all have this disorder on some level, but it’s those who’ve never known love who suffer the worst. The more you’ve pushed yourself away from love, the harder the time in purgatory is. It’s kinda like the kids who must give up all control and learn to trust; the more they fight the harder the treatment is.
 
Thanks for the comments so far. It’s so hard to deal with anti-social personality disorders.

I trully hope that this lady I’ve mentioned is not cupable for her actions. But, boy, has she spread havoc!!

If sociopaths have an ill formed conscience which evaluates choices on the basis of effects on self, then their consciences can be reformed.

But, if they are so damaged that they are incapable of forming a conscience, then they wouldn’t be culpable, I would think.

Can someone like this change? From what I’ve observed, people like this seem incapable of change.

If this condition is the result of neglect and abuse, then perhaps their caretakers would be held accountable by God for not only the evil they did but the evil done by their children…
i read all the posts on this topic. I agree with most of it, but it is true, as one poster said, that evil is not considered a possibility any more in our liberal society… Even so, it is interesting that i have often thought certain sociopaths in my life were possessed. I had forgotten that possessed people have an aversion to holy objects. That makes me feel better about this one relative i have, who, as far as i know, doesn’t have that aversion. Or does he? He hates me talking about Jesus or the Church… but he has entered a Church/chapel with me before, even sat quietly at hte Blessed Sacrement with me once… (though i don’t think he knew what the Blessed S. was…). Anyway, i wasn’t loved right when i was a child but i am not sociopathic. Maybe i got the right kind of nurturing at an early age… but love/support, etc. was withheld around the age of 7-14… I think its like one poster said, making 1 choice 4 evil just makes it easier to do so again… and again and again until, as someone once put it, the conscience is “seared”… Hate to sound like a broken record, but time spent with Jesus in the Church is a remedy for whatever ails you… (Even though it is so true that TRUTH HURTS)… but we are going to have to face the Truth sooner or later… why not sooner? God bless…
 
As for healing, if children who have this are caught early, there is a good chance at recovery if given the right treatment. They must learn strict obedience to a caregiver to learn that their needs will be met without manipulation. They are basically stripped of all control and are given it back as they earn it. They thus learn to trust the caregiver again. It’s a boot camp philosophy, take away all control, build a bond and trust, then give bits back as earned.
How does this help the child? Could you be more specific? As described, it sounds kind of scary.
 
How does this help the child? Could you be more specific? As described, it sounds kind of scary.
It’s not really scary, in fact scary is the last word I’d use. It’s strict though, nobody really likes disciplining a child, and when that child does something to deserve a harsh discipline it’s harder. But if the discipline isn’t carried out then the child never learns, since we all learn by our failures and the consequences of those failures.

Think of the drug addict - they do not begin to want to change until the drug and it’s effects are worse than the withdrawal symptoms. If you are trying to help someone who has a drug addiction, you don’t give him a comfortable place to live where he can do all the drugs he want. He needs to learn that the drugs harm his body and his relationships with others.

The children who’ve learned to cope by manipulation and violence must learn that these coping techniques actually do harm to them. It really comes down to logical consequences and carrying those consequences out. Still sound scary? Let me give you some examples…
  • Lets say the child is destructive and decides to break something, the logical consequence is that he will do chores (or other work) until the object has been paid for.
  • He decides to wet his pants to get even with an adult, so the consequence is that he must clean his own soiled pants and any other resulting mess.
  • He chooses not to eat dinner because he wants “McDonald’s”, so he doesn’t get dinner that night
  • He chooses not to do a chore properly, so he gets double chores
  • He decides to demand food and eats in an improper manner, he is thus required to ask for everything and is dismissed if he doesn’t.
  • Is he rude to adults? Then he is now required to say “ma’am” and “sir”.
This really requires a level of control by another party (specifically the parent). That is why adults (and teens) with this condition really don’t heal as well, it’s difficult to exert this level of control over a non-child. Have to go, hope this helps 🙂
 
Is it a mental illness? Can they be healed? Are they responsible for their evil actions? Are they trully incapable of remorse–thus they can’t repent. Are they then just perpetually damaged children? Could they be possessed?

Any ideas?
A true “sociopath”, i.e., a person with an antisocial personality disorder, normally has a chronic disorder of the personality. Jesus can heal anyone, but normally these folks retain this personality disorder throughout their life. Though they can have limited ability for true remorse, i.e., empathy for others, they can exercise imperfect contrition by recognizing and acknowledging and seeking to amend the wrongness of their actions. Cases of actual demonic possession are rare, however, demonic oppression can often accompany psychological and personality disorders, per my general understanding.
 
A true “sociopath”, i.e., a person with an antisocial personality disorder, normally has a chronic disorder of the personality. Jesus can heal anyone, but normally these folks retain this personality disorder throughout their life. Though they can have limited ability for true remorse, i.e., empathy for others, they can exercise imperfect contrition by recognizing and acknowledging and seeking to amend the wrongness of their actions. Cases of actual demonic possession are rare, however, demonic oppression can often accompany psychological and personality disorders, per my general understanding.
It comforts me to think that some people who appear to be lost souls may just be mentally impaired in this way.

Though, they sure do cause a great deal of pain for others.
 
  • He chooses not to do a chore properly, so he gets double chores
  • He decides to demand food and eats in an improper manner, he is thus required to ask for everything and is dismissed if he doesn’t.
  • Is he rude to adults? Then he is now required to say “ma’am” and “sir”.
    This really requires a level of control by another party (specifically the parent). That is why adults (and teens) with this condition really don’t heal as well, it’s difficult to exert this level of control over a non-child. Have to go, hope this helps 🙂
Thanks Lady Cygnus. It seems less scary. 🙂 I sort of envisioned it as being imposed in general, and not in response to the child doing a specific thing wrong. I can see how you can’t do this well with an adult. You do need more control of their environment to do it.
 
Depends upon your perspective:

If you subscribe to sociopathy being the product of phenotype then the answer is most certainly yes, but if you believe in genotype then the answer is most definitely ‘no’!

I think behaviour is the product of the both in interaction, so probably but not without a lot of investment and effort. But there is always scope to become recidivist
 
Depends upon your perspective:

If you subscribe to sociopathy being the product of phenotype then the answer is most certainly yes, but if you believe in genotype then the answer is most definitely ‘no’!

I think behaviour is the product of the both in interaction, so probably but not without a lot of investment and effort. But there is always scope to become recidivist
er, I didn’t understand your post.
 
It comforts me to think that some people who appear to be lost souls may just be mentally impaired in this way.

Though, they sure do cause a great deal of pain for others.
Me too. I’m sure everyone knows at least one sociopath. I tend to think my mother is at least borderline…
(A cross i offer to God… on a continuing basis…)
 
Originally Posted by Sixtus
Depends upon your perspective:
If you subscribe to sociopathy being the product of phenotype then the answer is most certainly yes, but if you believe in genotype then the answer is most definitely ‘no’!
I think behaviour is the product of the both in interaction, so probably but not without a lot of investment and effort. But there is always scope to become recidivist.
er, I didn’t understand your post

Well, it is simple: some folk believe that people with problems are so because they are possessed by an evil spirit. Some say it is mental illness. While possession is always a possibility, it is more likely to be mental illness.

Mental illness is often thought of as being the product of ‘weak’ individuals. Rarely does society take the blame for mental illness. There may be reasons why a person may be prone to one thing rather than another [such as an additictive personality] but mental illness is more likely to be the product of the environment in which they live and have lived.

That is where the illness is to be found. That needs healing before it creates more sociopaths, rather than shoving all the blame onto damaged individuals
 
er, I didn’t understand your post

Well, it is simple: some folk believe that people with problems are so because they are possessed by an evil spirit. Some say it is mental illness. While possession is always a possibility, it is more likely to be mental illness.

Mental illness is often thought of as being the product of ‘weak’ individuals. Rarely does society take the blame for mental illness. There may be reasons why a person may be prone to one thing rather than another [such as an additictive personality] but mental illness is more likely to be the product of the environment in which they live and have lived.

That is where the illness is to be found. That needs healing before it creates more sociopaths, rather than shoving all the blame onto damaged individuals
Is it sin then–like generational sin?

I wonder how you know if someone is evil or has a legitimate mental disorder that prevents them from forming a conscience.
 
I think the question is not, "Can a sociopath be healed?’ but rather, “If a sociopath can be healed, am I **qualified **to heal her?”

For all but mental health professionals, the answer to that question is, “no.” We are no more qualified to heal someone with a serious mental disorder that we would be qualified to perform open heart surgery.

If your story of her falsely accusing her former husband of child molestation is true, the best thing your brother can do is remember the motto of the Knights of the Roundtable, “Never rescue a maiden who owns a dragon ranch.”
 
Leonie wrote:
Is it sin then–like generational sin?.
Is often said: ‘the sins of the fathers are visited on the children’. It is not uncommon to hear a second generation to say their children or even grandchildren have the traites of their parents or grandparents, even when one generation was born after the other had died, so in theory is no direct connection or social influence.

But we can unwittingly pass on familial and sub-cultural traits, often unconciously so that we become our parents and our children become us in terms of personality. We simply pass on to the next generation what we learned from our parents and they to the next generation etc. This is particularly true of problem solving strategies and the consquences of failed strategies.
I wonder how you know if someone is evil or has a legitimate mental disorder that prevents them from forming a conscience
You would know if someone was possessed. It is nothing like mental illness. It is distinctly sinister. You would feel ill at ease. It would be very strong, negative, over-powering, often aggressive.

If you are unsure whether it is possession or mental illness then it is mental illness.
 
My brother has had a tumultuous relationship with his ex girlfriend for 8 years or so. I trully think this woman is a borderline sociopath. She is a master manipulator. She lies all the time. It even seems like she will believe her lies as soon as she tells them. In conversation, she says exactly the right thing. She uses people to get what she wants. She seems to have no remorse. She is extremely charming.

She says she was abused as a child, but it is hard to know because she has lied about her past. In fact, she had the father of her first two children arrested for sexual abuse, then years later, said it was just a misunderstanding. You can’t trust anything she says–she will even lie about things that don’t matter like whether or not she likes a tv show. She’s lied about her brothers hitting her. She’s lied about my brother hitting her. She is very convincing.

I don’t know if she is just evil or mentally ill or if its all twisted up inside her. Of course, we pray for her.

Whether or not she really is a sociopath, sociopaths really confuse me.

Is it a mental illness? Can they be healed? Are they responsible for their evil actions? Are they trully incapable of remorse–thus they can’t repent. Are they then just perpetually damaged children? Could they be possessed?

Any ideas?
 
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