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Trelow
Guest
Trelow's wife still yapping:
Is taking "The pill" for exclusively medical reasons while remaining abstinent sinful
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ames61
Guest
Thank you Trelows wife!
I will second everything about the paul vi institute. The problem with prescribing the pill for medical symptoms is that is NEVER solves the problem, only masks the symptoms, as others have pointed out. Prescribing the pill for medical reasons is lazy and disrespectful to women’s health. Men would have never stood to have this as SOP for 30 odd years.
The Paul VI institute uses procedures including hormone injections in ways that mimic a womans cycle. For instance if she is low on Progesterone, she might give herself injections on days 5, 7 and 9 of her cycle, to match what would be the normal gradual rise during the first half of the cycle (this is not exact, just my recollection of my friends protocol). This is much preferable to the month long hormone concoction that the pill provides.
Surgical procedures might include wedge resectioning of the ovaries. I know of several people who have been misdiagonosed by their OBgyn and then properly diagnosed and cured or treated by Dr. Hilgers for endometriosis and infertility.
Also by using the Creighton method they promote, you become more intimately aware of your body and your health, and are more likely to find problems down the road.
Using the pill for medical reasons is like gassing your house daily for flies rather than patching the hole in the screen door, imho. If you have been advised to do so, I’d get on the phone with these folks, pronto. Don’t just try to figure it out on the website. Call them and ask for a referral in your area. What do you have to lose?
And I am truly surprised that the apologists would tell anyone it was okay to engage in marital relationships while on the pill for medical reasons. My impression was definitely that that due to the possible abortifacient nature of the pill that you would have to abstain from sexual relations completely.
I will second everything about the paul vi institute. The problem with prescribing the pill for medical symptoms is that is NEVER solves the problem, only masks the symptoms, as others have pointed out. Prescribing the pill for medical reasons is lazy and disrespectful to women’s health. Men would have never stood to have this as SOP for 30 odd years.
The Paul VI institute uses procedures including hormone injections in ways that mimic a womans cycle. For instance if she is low on Progesterone, she might give herself injections on days 5, 7 and 9 of her cycle, to match what would be the normal gradual rise during the first half of the cycle (this is not exact, just my recollection of my friends protocol). This is much preferable to the month long hormone concoction that the pill provides.
Surgical procedures might include wedge resectioning of the ovaries. I know of several people who have been misdiagonosed by their OBgyn and then properly diagnosed and cured or treated by Dr. Hilgers for endometriosis and infertility.
Also by using the Creighton method they promote, you become more intimately aware of your body and your health, and are more likely to find problems down the road.
Using the pill for medical reasons is like gassing your house daily for flies rather than patching the hole in the screen door, imho. If you have been advised to do so, I’d get on the phone with these folks, pronto. Don’t just try to figure it out on the website. Call them and ask for a referral in your area. What do you have to lose?
And I am truly surprised that the apologists would tell anyone it was okay to engage in marital relationships while on the pill for medical reasons. My impression was definitely that that due to the possible abortifacient nature of the pill that you would have to abstain from sexual relations completely.
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animalluvr77
Guest
Okay, at first I took bcp for mensturation cramps (very painful ones at that) and it helped sooo much, my doc. checked for everything he could think of to make sure it wasn’t anything else! All that he found was I had a tilted uterus. So now I need to take them for birthcontrol reasons!!:tsktsk: My husband and I have been dealing with some of my medical issues and problems and now because of my medical problems I am taking very serious medications that if I were to get pregnant I would have to have been off of the meds for at least several months before I had even think of concieving, to be sure that the baby is not in any way harmed by the medications. So I am now in a predicament. Before we got married I asked the priest about this situation and he said that even though the church teaches not to take the bcp that sometimes there are times when there are exceptions. And that no one knows what is in our hearts and that God will forgive us of our sins if we genually want his forgiveness. So, what does everyone else think of this situation? Because I really have no other choice. All that I can do is decide when I want to get pregnant slowly stop taking my other medications (because it may take up to 3 to 6 months, I can’t just stop taking them all at once) and then when they are out of my system then stop the bcp and everything is safe for a baby. The other meds. could do a lot of physical harm or even be fatal to a baby even before it is born if I were still on the meds. if I were to get pregnant while on them. I hope all of this made sense. Please let me know what you think of any of this!:ehh:
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Pug
Guest
animalluvr77,
If you are taking medications that could kill or harm a tiny baby, it is not a moral solution to take the bcpill expressly in order that relations can continue without becoming pregnant, to the best of my knowledge. It sounds like you could be in a situation or near to a situation where you might be being tempted to contracept. I can’t tell, of course. You would need to discuss with a priest. I’d try that, especially since you are asking about something or are wondering right now.
You do have the choice of taking the meds, including the pill, and abstaining from relations. You also could go off them all for however long is required, and then try for a baby using NFP to make it happen quickly. Depending on your meds, they sometimes are only harmful during certain months of the pregnancy, so if you are lucky, you might be able to return to taking them later in your prenancy. Your doctor would know, of course.
If you are taking medications that could kill or harm a tiny baby, it is not a moral solution to take the bcpill expressly in order that relations can continue without becoming pregnant, to the best of my knowledge. It sounds like you could be in a situation or near to a situation where you might be being tempted to contracept. I can’t tell, of course. You would need to discuss with a priest. I’d try that, especially since you are asking about something or are wondering right now.
You do have the choice of taking the meds, including the pill, and abstaining from relations. You also could go off them all for however long is required, and then try for a baby using NFP to make it happen quickly. Depending on your meds, they sometimes are only harmful during certain months of the pregnancy, so if you are lucky, you might be able to return to taking them later in your prenancy. Your doctor would know, of course.
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cargopilot
Guest
Boy, you can say that, again.
My wife’s doctor said, ‘I want you on so-and-so birth control pill.’
When my wife told her female, non-Catholic doctor that she practiced NFP, or nothing at all, the doc said, ‘Oh, your husband must be Catholic.’ She said ‘Actually, we both are’. Then the doc said, ‘You know what they call people on the rythum method, don’t you?..PARENTS!’
My wife said, ‘good one’.
After all the joking, my wife educated her a little bit, and they got down to the business of finding other options. She thought her doc was a little proud to have come up with such good alternatives. She even thought the doc seemed a little touched, after giving her something to think about, that day.
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cargopilot
Guest
Boy, you can say that, again.
My wife’s doctor said, ‘I want you on so-and-so birth control pill.’
When my wife told her female, non-Catholic doctor that she practiced NFP, or nothing at all, the doc said, ‘Oh, your husband must be Catholic.’ She said ‘Actually, we both are’. Then the doc said, ‘You know what they call people on the rythum method, don’t you?..PARENTS!’
My wife said, ‘good one’.
After all the joking, my wife educated her a little bit, and they got down to the business of finding other options. She thought her doc was a little proud to have come up with such good alternatives. She even thought the doc seemed a little touched, after giving her something to think about, that day.
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Pug
Guest
Thanks Trelow’s wife. I will try to get my hands on the book you suggest. Don’t worry, the ultrasound is not bad at all! It’s the laproscopy that is a big thing. You will end up with interesting pictures as souvenirs, though.
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Brendan
Guest
Ghosty,
What you said was decidedly wrong.
The abortitve effect rules out having marital relations during this treatment.
What was proposed (and I won’t get into the actual medical need of the hormone) was perfectly licit.
You are correct that the contraceptive effect is secondary to the desired medical treatment, and therefore justified. Contraception, per Humane Vitae, is only immoral in the confines of the marital act.
But the abortive effect of the homones in question is not justified, and never can be.
The only acceptable way of preventing the abortive effect is to abstain, which is what is being discussed.
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Pug
Guest
Are you trying to say that HV doesn’t bother talking about contraception outside the marital act, or are you saying that contracepting is okay, as long as you aren’t married? I can think of one other thing, but could you clarify?
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twagler
Guest
Does it bother you that tomorrow the new Pope could come out and say “Birth control is now okay” and then it would be fine to use it? These discussions (which damn some to Hell) would then be null and void. Birth control would cease to be a sin; I don’t get it.
Best,
Travis
Best,
Travis
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felra
Guest
Let me try to help you “get it”.
- Artificial birth control (ABC) is an intrinsic evil in and of itself.
- Procreation is a here and now human good.
- ABC is an intrinsic evil that seeks to act against this procreative good.
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Trelow
Guest
Marital act is the proper way to define sexual intercourse.
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Ghosty
Guest
The abortive effect of the hormones is VASTLY overplayed, and is in fact unproven. As someone who works in medicine and has read every medical study possible on the subject, I feel comfortable saying that there is NO evidence that miscarriage is more common in users of certain Birth Control Pills than in the general population.
If the abortifacent effect was indeed a problem, then the women who ovulate while on the pill would not have an equal rate of pregnancy as those women who are not taking the pill.
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Pug
Guest
Trelow said:
Hmmm. Okay, you are saying it is a euphamism in Brendan’s post. So, what would it mean to say, “contraception …is only immoral in the confines of the marital act”. This seems to say that it would be moral to use contraception outside a basic context of sexual intercourse, but when would you ever do that and still call it contraception? I’m probably being a total idiot here, I know.
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twagler
Guest
I’m pretty sure the Pope can chage the Church’s stance if he wants to. After all, he is infallible when speaking from Peter’s chair, right?
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Ghosty
Guest
Only when not contradicting the Ordinary or Extraordinary Infallibility of the Magisterium. Papal Infallibility is, arguably, the “weakest” of the Church’s Infallible powers.
The ban on Birth Control falls under the Ordinary Magisterium, as does the Messiah-hood of Jesus incidently. The Pope is as powerless to change it as he is to declare that it will no longer rain on Wednesdays.
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Curious
Guest
I’m confused. If a woman HAD to take the pill for medical reasons, and the reasons were truly legit and the pill was really helping then she and her husband would have to abstain? So you’re denying one gift of God (the gift of sex in marriage) for fear that you’re stopping another gift? (the gift of children). It sounds like the couple is being punished for a condition that the woman cannot help.
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felra
Guest
It sounds like you are holding out for a change in the Church’s prohibition against contraception (and …). Please don’t hold your breath. I repeat: the Pope does not have the ability/authority/prerogative to alter/change/mitigate/act against natural law (which is the basis for determining intrinsic evil and good).
**“**Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures, the natural law remains as a rule that binds men among themselves and imposes on them, beyond the inevitable differences, common principles.” (CCC 1957)
**“**The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law, because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation. In recalling the prescriptions of the natural law, the Magisterium of the Church exercises an essential part of its prophetic office of proclaiming to men what they truly are and reminding them of what they should be before God.” (CCC 2036)
**“**No one can command or establish what is contrary to the dignity of persons and the natural law.” (CCC 2235)
“every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:” (CCC 2370)
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Church_Militant
Guest
Oh look! Another guy who doesn’t know what he’s talkin’ about, but gonna offer a “remark”. And just how many times have the Seventh Day Adventists told us that Jesus was coming back and were wrong?
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Ham1
Guest
Church Militant:
Wow. Profound. In the future why don’t you restrict yourself to comments that are relevant (and charitable) or, at the very least, remotely amusing.Oh look! Another guy who doesn’t know what he’s talkin’ about, but gonna offer a “remark”. And just how many times have the Seventh Day Adventists told us that Jesus was coming back and were wrong?
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