Is the Bible Sufficiently Clear?

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Benadam said:
The thing is, both Testaments document the experience of a particular people and their encounter with God through out their history. As for the New Testament it’s a community that is present. The people of God is a reality. The Testaments document their origins their lives and no others can know it like they do.
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Not entirely true:

Mt 28: 18-20 {with Douay Bible explanation
[18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded {TAUGHT} YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world.

[18] “All power”: See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ’s church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ himself, who is the way, the truth, and the life. St. John 14. {/quotes}

The Catholic Church with its Magisterium, Guided and GUARDED by the Holy Spirit alone can and does expose and share the fullness of God’s truths {john 17:17-20}

PJM
 
Shakuhachi said:
Everyone can get the fundamentals but the depths are limitless.
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Which is WHY I suppose there are thousands of denominations with DIFFERING sets of faith beliefs because the bible is is “easy” to rightly understand:thinking:😮

PJM
 
PJM said:
So why then are their so many different interpretations?

Easter Blessings

PJM
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Because so many people ignore the teaching authority that God Himself gave us, namely the magisterium of Mother Church.
The students ignore the teacher, try to teach themselves and they fail.
 
Not necessarily – that’s why we need the Church for guidance. Holy Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Magisterial Authority.
 
The Bible isn’t so clear that everyone can get the right spiritual ideas from it. History? Sure, but the Bible is so much more than that. There’s so much going on that we need guidance, and the Church that Jesus founded gives us this guidance.

Scripture isn’t like a math problem. It’s not as simple as 2+2=4. If it were, there would be only one sola scriptura church in existence. The fact that there isn’t should lead us to believe that the Bible either isn’t as clear as some would have us believe, all but one of the Sola churches are frauds, or some combination of these two ideas.
 
Well, this is a Catholic website. We trust that the magisterial authority granted to the Church by Christ himself can be used to determine the proper context. Did Christ not give the Apostles the ability to understand the scriptures when he appeared to them in the upper room?
 
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This may/will sound like I am parroting the “party” line, but it doesn’t make it any less true. The teachings of the Bible aren’t “stand alone.” The fullness of them is revealed when combined with sacred Tradition and the teaching arm of Christ’s Church. Jesus never said, “…and on this rock I’m going to leave this book, and you read it, figure out what it says, and whatever you come up with will be ok.” Jesus didn’t leave us a book, he left us a church. My Protestant friends think that Catholicism is so limited because the Church tells us how to interpret scripture. After becoming Catholic, I actually found the teachings of the Church to be quite freeing.
 
PJM said:
BUT the Catholic Church Magisterium does NOT; and THAT is where to go for GOD’S TRUTHS when in doubt.
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Not everyone in the Magisterium is a biblical scholar, but the Magisterium is the teaching arm of the Catholic Church. However, the biblical scholars in the Magisterium, and I have known several, have said, “We still don’t know all the Bible requires of us and all it reveals.” And it’s true. And, when something is tradition and not Tradition, it is subject to change, e.g., the Virgin Birth versus limbo. The view on the first is not subject to change; the view on the second did change. And, even in the Magisterium, the theologians are not always of one accord. If the Magisterium could never be wrong, then the Catholic Church would still be teaching that unbaptized babies go to limbo and they do not. I do not advocate ignoring the Magisterium, but I do advocate not believing they cannot get something wrong. Infallibility does bot attach to the theologians in the Magisterium, and they breathe a sigh of relief that it does not.
 
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PJM said:
Is the Bible Sufficiently Clear?

Can everyone READ and UNDERSTAND God’s Teachings in His Bible?

Easter Blessings,

Patrick
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To answer that, I would suggest, one has to look at the current landscape. Taking one example

if true…THEN either
  1. there wouldn’t be 10’s of thousands of competing sects, calling themselves churches, all proclaiming their private interpretation of scripture is a right interpretation.
or
  1. they (all those who aren’t Catholic in the Catholic Church) know their error and know by their divisions in history, they are condemned by the same scriptures condemning such division, they claim to be able to read and understand correctly.
Is there agreement on either example? NOT from the 10’s of thousands of sects, heresies, schisms, etc that are out there.

So one could then argue, while the scriptures can be readable and clear, it doesn’t translate into one’s obedience of those scriptures and corresponding concern for the consequences for violating those very clear and understandable scriptures.
 
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steve-b said:
So one could then argue, while the scriptures can be readable and clear, it doesn’t translate into one’s obedience of those scriptures and corresponding concern for the consequences for violating those very clear and understandable scriptures.
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As the “OP” I can’t agree with this position.

Many parts of the New Testament are not precisely clear by God;s intent to require FAITH in Him and what He teaches. Which explains the roots of the multiplicity of christian faith beliefs.

Protestants don’t have a magisterium they call fall back on for clarification, so they settle for what they choose the bible to be teaching; very often in error, when compared to Catholic Doctrine and Dogmas.

Easter Blessings,
Patrick
 
PJM said:
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steve-b:
So one could then argue, while the scriptures can be readable and clear, it doesn’t translate into one’s obedience of those scriptures and corresponding concern for the consequences for violating those very clear and understandable scriptures.
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As the “OP” I can’t agree with this position.

Many parts of the New Testament are not precisely clear by God;s intent to require FAITH in Him and what He teaches. Which explains the roots of the multiplicity of christian faith beliefs.
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If one comes to that conclusion, then
one is not taking what they read in scripture with the consideration, that there is a hierarchy of thought in scripture that doesn’t have to constantly be repeated page after page to be true.
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PJM:
Protestants don’t have a magisterium they call fall back on for clarification, so they settle for what they choose the bible to be teaching; very often in error, when compared to Catholic Doctrine and Dogmas.

Easter Blessings,
Patrick
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Therefore your point gets to my point #1 in my previous post.

“if the bible is sufficiently clear (the topic question)
1. there wouldn’t be 10’s of thousands of competing sects, calling themselves churches, all proclaiming their private interpretation of scripture is a right interpretation.”
 
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We agree the BIBLE is NOT by intent sufficiently clear in many cases.

Easter Blessings
Patrick
 
Imagine I hand you the books “Chronicles of Narnia”. Unless you have been educated about allegory and fantasy, you would go looking for lampposts inside of closets!

To understand the book, you need to have some guidance.

Same for the Bible. It was written to be read in the context of the Church.
 
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