Is The Blessed Blessed Virgin Mary Offended?

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I have a devout Catholic friend who says that she doesn’t think the Blessed Virgin Mary would like being portrayed as a queen with crown of jewels, rich garments, etc. in pictures, statues, icons. She knows this has been done for centuries in Vatican,cathedrals, churches, but still thinks this is wrong way to show Mary how we look at her.
She says Mary was simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly, and that this goes against who she was.

I tried to tell her we do this to show honor and respect to the Mother of God. Is there some place in the bible that shows this is appropriate to adorn Mary, and would not be offensive to her?

I’d appreciate your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Blessings
 
As we are not ‘Bible alone’ Christians as Catholics, we have Tradition, I will quote a few of our elder brothers and sisters in the Faith - the Saints:

"When, O Mother Immaculate, will you become Queen of each and every soul? When will all the souls in the entire world know the goodness and love of your Heart towards them? When will every soul show you its gratitude with ardent love, and not only by passing affection, but by total dedication of the will to you, so that you reign in each and every heart and be able to form them according to the pattern of the Most Sacred Heart of thy Son, to make them happy , to divinise them? When will this come about ? " - Saint Maximilian Kolbe

“To serve Mary and to be her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess. For to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign on high, and to live under her commands is a greater thing than to govern!” - Saint John Damascene

“Prayer is powerful beyond limits when we turn to the Immaculata who is queen even of God’s heart.” - Saint Maximilian Kolbe

“The reason why Christ is unknown today is because His Mother is unknown.” - Saint Cardinal John Henry Newman
 
While I realize that there are some pictures and statues of Our Lady in this way, most that I have seen show her in anything but “rich garments.”
 
I have a devout Catholic friend who says that she doesn’t think the Blessed Virgin Mary would like being portrayed as a queen with crown of jewels, rich garments, etc. in pictures, statues, icons. She knows this has been done for centuries in Vatican,cathedrals, churches, but still thinks this is wrong way to show Mary how we look at her.
She says Mary was simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly, and that this goes against who she was.

I tried to tell her we do this to show honor and respect to the Mother of God. Is there some place in the bible that shows this is appropriate to adorn Mary, and would not be offensive to her?

I’d appreciate your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Blessings
When we honour Mary, we honour Jesus too. God has honoured her far more than we can, and she is Queen in Heaven. So I don’t think it’s wrong to portray that. We are merely portraying what the reality is like (on our human level). And since we’re taught it’s God’s will for Mary to be honoured, I wouldn’t say this would be displeasing to her.

God bless!
 
I have a devout Catholic friend who says that she doesn’t think the Blessed Virgin Mary would like being portrayed as a queen with crown of jewels, rich garments, etc. in pictures, statues, icons. She knows this has been done for centuries in Vatican,cathedrals, churches, but still thinks this is wrong way to show Mary how we look at her.
She says Mary was simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly, and that this goes against who she was.

I tried to tell her we do this to show honor and respect to the Mother of God. Is there some place in the bible that shows this is appropriate to adorn Mary, and would not be offensive to her?

I’d appreciate your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Blessings
She has been taken up into heaven, so all her jewels and finery are spiritual, not physical. Scripture speaks of the saints in heaven having crowns and precious jewels. The physical ones are just tangible reminders of the spiritual reality.
 
Is Mary offended by such things? Absolutely not. She understands the intent behind such displays and that they are not intended to detract from her son.

What would offend her is anyone who attempts to give her too much adoration, detracting from her Son, and then teaching others to do the same thereby placing an unnecessary obstacle in the path to Christ in the Church.

That said, I think that Mary would be just as happy to be shown and thought of in the ways proposed by your friend - “simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly”.

Peace
James
 
Is there some place in the bible that shows this is appropriate to adorn Mary, and would not be offensive to her?

I’d appreciate your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Blessings
Joseph had a dream in Genesis 37:9 that the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to him. Then he had another dream, and told it to his brothers. “Look, I had another dream,” he said; “this time, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me. (Genesis 37:9)

Joseph later became the most powerful man in Egypt, second only to the pharoah himself. The author of the Book of Geneis uses this imagery to tell us something about Mary, who is the ark of the new covenant.

Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. (Revelation 11:19, 12:1-2)

Mary has become Queen of Heaven, second only to the King, her son, himself. Mary is humble, and as queen she is selflessly devoted to her king, Jesus, but she is queen nonetheless, and that cannot be denied.

-Tim-
 
The author of the Book of Geneis uses this imagery to tell us something about Mary, who is the ark of the new covenant.
I meant to write, “The author of the book of Revelation”, not the book of Genesis.

-Tim-
 
Is Mary offended by such things? Absolutely not. She understands the intent behind such displays and that they are not intended to detract from her son.

What would offend her is anyone who attempts to give her too much adoration, detracting from her Son, and then teaching others to do the same thereby placing an unnecessary obstacle in the path to Christ in the Church.

That said, I think that Mary would be just as happy to be shown and thought of in the ways proposed by your friend - “simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly”.

Peace
James
Well said.

I was reminded today how much more agonizingly Mary must have suffered in watching her Son be humiliated and scorned, and yet through that earthly shame and dishonor was given high honor from the most perfect source: her divine Son, Jesus.

In living humbly, and graciously accepting her rightful crown from Jesus, Mary teaches us to live humbly and accept our heavenly crown just as graciously. To me, there is nothing ostentatious about Mary in her role as Queen Mother – even as we may see her portrayed in royal finery; she embodies piety and humility without allowing those trappings to trap her. Whatever honor she has received from Christ is enough for her. And, it should also be enough for us.
 
Nobody is quoting Genesis?

“Honor your father and your mother.” Of course Jesus would give Mary nice clothes; she made that seamless garment for Him.

Psalms?

“The Queen stands at Your right hand, arrayed in gold of Ophir…
The king’s daughter is within, all glorious, her robe woven of gold.”

Proverbs, where we learn that the valiant woman is well-dressed, as well as a hardworking businesswoman for her household?

“She hath put out her hand to strong things, and her fingers have taken hold of the spindle… She shall not fear for her house in the cold of snow: for all her domestics are clothed with double garments. She hath made for herself clothing of tapestry: fine linen and purple is her covering… Strength and beauty are her clothing, and she shall laugh in the latter day.”

As for crowns and such, folks above have talked about that. I guess the Christian who doesn’t want to go to Heaven doesn’t want to see the saints get their crowns either. But if you run the race, you win the prize – and the prize of an ancient footrace was a crown of bay laurel. If you are part of the King’s family, you wear a crown.
 
I have a devout Catholic friend who says that she doesn’t think the Blessed Virgin Mary would like being portrayed as a queen with crown of jewels, rich garments, etc. in pictures, statues, icons. She knows this has been done for centuries in Vatican,cathedrals, churches, but still thinks this is wrong way to show Mary how we look at her.
She says Mary was simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly, and that this goes against who she was.

I tried to tell her we do this to show honor and respect to the Mother of God. Is there some place in the bible that shows this is appropriate to adorn Mary, and would not be offensive to her?

I’d appreciate your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Blessings
You may gently and charitably try sharing a little bit of Bible History with your friend. It may help. In the OT and throughout Jewish History, even in some non-Jewish cultures, the mother of the king was always the queen or the Queen Mother. She was the second most powerful person in the realm and the most resepcted person in the royal court, after the king of course.

The reason was that the kings often had more than one wife, but they had only one mother. It was customary to go to the King’s mother for special favors. It was also customary to present her with gifts out of respect and affection. Many of them were good women.

This custom carries over into Christianity. One can say that it is a foreshadowing of the relationship between Christ the King and Mary, the Queen Mother. It is not out of the norm to show respect and love for the Queen Mother. Therefore, we use the tools available to us to show such respect and love. We represent her as a glorious queen.

Mary would not be offended by truth. She is the Queen Mother. There is no question about this. Those who deny this, have to figure out how they will explain Christ the King, with a mother, who is not the Queen Mother. Even Queen Elizabeth had a Queen Mother until a few years ago.

Mary foreshadows this in the Magnificat when she says that all generations would call her Blessed. She is suggesting that she will be venerated, not just as a heroine of Christian history, but as Blessed. In Jewish culture, this word has very special meaning and people did not refer to themselves as being blessed as we do today when we say that we’re blessed with good health, etc. To be Blessed meant to be singular.

You may also point your friend to the dialog between Elizabeth and Mary. Elizabeth greets Mary as “The Mother of My Lord.” This title, “Mother of My Lord” has a very profound meaning. In Jewish culture, the king is lord. We still use that title in European cultures, “My Lord”.

At the same time, Lord also had the same meaning as Adonai, with is the Divine Lord.

Mary is the “Mother of My Lord”. Again, we see the reference to the mother of the king, making her the Queen Mother. It is very interesting that Elizabeth speaks about being honored by the visit of the Mother of the Lord. She does not refer to Christ until the second sentence, when she speaks about the child in her womb leaping.

Luke sets up the scenario to help us understand why John leaps for joy in his mother’s womb. His mother hears Mary’s greeting. She realizes that this woman greeting her is the Mother of her Lord. The child leaping in the womb is triggered by the fact that the Mother of the Lord has entered the house, with the Lord in her womb. The Lord is carried into John’s home by the Queen Mother – the Theotokos.

You see, there are all kinds of connections here to the Queenship of Mary. The representations are not exagerations. They are really part of history . . . a history with which Mary was very familiar. The fact that a Queen Mother is recognized as such does not make her more proud or less humble. The recognition comes from the subjects. She’s not demanding it. It is freely given in justice, for this is who she is.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
A sinless and perfectly humble soul can celebrate its own glory without the slightest hint of pride. That’s why Mary, in her apparitions, says things that, if anyone else said them, would be the height of arrogance. The same goes for Our Lord.

Mary has nothing to fear from the honor given to her, because she is not tempted to pride like we who are still on Earth.
 
A sinless and perfectly humble soul can celebrate its own glory without the slightest hint of pride. That’s why Mary, in her apparitions, says things that, if anyone else said them, would be the height of arrogance. The same goes for Our Lord.

Mary has nothing to fear from the honor given to her, because she is not tempted to pride like we who are still on Earth.
While the apparitions are very beautiful and spiritually beneficial, the Church has never used them to teach the faith. The reason is that they are private, even though the message is for the world. The message comes to us through the person receiving the revelation, not through the Church.

The Church speaks to this question using history, Scripture and Christian tradition. It would be better if we responded using the same resources, because they are more authoritative than the apparitions. The apparitons are worthy of belief. Christian Tradition commands assent. It goes beyond worthy of belief.

Do you see how this works?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
She has been taken up into heaven, so all her jewels and finery are spiritual, not physical. Scripture speaks of the saints in heaven having crowns and precious jewels. The physical ones are just tangible reminders of the spiritual reality.
👍👍
 
While the apparitions are very beautiful and spiritually beneficial, the Church has never used them to teach the faith. The reason is that they are private, even though the message is for the world. The message comes to us through the person receiving the revelation, not through the Church.

The Church speaks to this question using history, Scripture and Christian tradition. It would be better if we responded using the same resources, because they are more authoritative than the apparitions. The apparitons are worthy of belief. Christian Tradition commands assent. It goes beyond worthy of belief.

Do you see how this works?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Certainly. Thank you for highlighting this important difference.
 
As we are not ‘Bible alone’ Christians as Catholics, we have Tradition, I will quote a few of our elder brothers and sisters in the Faith - the Saints:

"When, O Mother Immaculate, will you become Queen of each and every soul? When will all the souls in the entire world know the goodness and love of your Heart towards them? When will every soul show you its gratitude with ardent love, and not only by passing affection, but by total dedication of the will to you, so that you reign in each and every heart and be able to form them according to the pattern of the Most Sacred Heart of thy Son, to make them happy , to divinise them? When will this come about ? " - Saint Maximilian Kolbe

“To serve Mary and to be her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess. For to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign on high, and to live under her commands is a greater thing than to govern!” - Saint John Damascene

“Prayer is powerful beyond limits when we turn to the Immaculata who is queen even of God’s heart.” - Saint Maximilian Kolbe

“The reason why Christ is unknown today, is because His Mother is unknown.” - Saint Cardinal John Henry Newman
How can one say, that Jesus & Mary is unknow today, if that was the case people woundn,t go to Loures or Fatima, or to Shrines,or to Mass. Jesus&Mary will always be in my Heart,and I will be happey the day I can see my
Lord and his Mother Mary. :bible1:
 
As we are not ‘Bible alone’ Christians as Catholics, we have Tradition, I will quote a few of our elder brothers and sisters in the Faith - the Saints:

"When, O Mother Immaculate, will you become Queen of each and every soul? When will all the souls in the entire world know the goodness and love of your Heart towards them? When will every soul show you its gratitude with ardent love, and not only by passing affection, but by total dedication of the will to you, so that you reign in each and every heart and be able to form them according to the pattern of the Most Sacred Heart of thy Son, to make them happy , to divinise them? When will this come about ? " - Saint Maximilian Kolbe

“To serve Mary and to be her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess. For to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign on high, and to live under her commands is a greater thing than to govern!” - Saint John Damascene

“Prayer is powerful beyond limits when we turn to the Immaculata who is queen even of God’s heart.” - Saint Maximilian Kolbe

“The reason why Christ is unknown today is because His Mother is unknown.” - Saint Cardinal John Henry Newman
How can one say, that Jesus & Mary is unknow today, if that was the case people woundn,t go to Loures or Fatima, or to Shrines,or to Mass. Jesus&Mary will always be in my Heart,and I will be happey the day I can see my
Lord and his Mother Mary. :bible1:
You can’t look at these statement from through the eyes of the man in the pew. They were not written that way. You have to look a them through the eyes of the theologian and the scholar, because the writers were theologians and scholars. They used a very special language.

To know, in the Christian tradition means to be intimate with. Remember what Mary says to the angel. “I do not know man.”

It is very difficult to have an intimate relationship with Christ, as intimate as the relationship between spouses, when one lacks the intimacy with Mary. What happens is that if you do not know the mother, you’re going to fall short in your understanding of the Incarnate Son. The Incarnate Son gets his humanity from his mother. He enters the world through her. You cannot separate the Incarnate Son from the mother or he’s not Incarnate. That is why one must know the mother, as a husband knows his wife, where the one becomes a natural part of the life of the other.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I have a devout Catholic friend who says that she doesn’t think the Blessed Virgin Mary would like being portrayed as a queen with crown of jewels, rich garments, etc. in pictures, statues, icons. She knows this has been done for centuries in Vatican,cathedrals, churches, but still thinks this is wrong way to show Mary how we look at her.
She says Mary was simple, humble, servant of the Lord and non worldly, and that this goes against who she was.

I tried to tell her we do this to show honor and respect to the Mother of God. Is there some place in the bible that shows this is appropriate to adorn Mary, and would not be offensive to her?

I’d appreciate your help and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Blessings
I can see both points of view.
 
You can’t look at these statement from through the eyes of the man in the pew. They were not written that way. You have to look a them through the eyes of the theologian and the scholar, because the writers were theologians and scholars. They used a very special language.

To know, in the Christian tradition means to be intimate with. Remember what Mary says to the angel. “I do not know man.”

It is very difficult to have an intimate relationship with Christ, as intimate as the relationship between spouses, when one lacks the intimacy with Mary. What happens is that if you do not know the mother, you’re going to fall short in your understanding of the Incarnate Son. The Incarnate Son gets his humanity from his mother. He enters the world through her. You cannot separate the Incarnate Son from the mother or he’s not Incarnate. That is why one must know the mother, as a husband knows his wife, where the one becomes a natural part of the life of the other.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Br JR,
As always you bring good insight to any conversation. However in this one I’m not sure that I agree with you entirely.
For one thing you seem to “mix metaphors”.
First of all you explain - rightly that there are certain meanings to words used by Scholars. You explain that the biblical “knowing” relates to spousal intimacy then use “know” in your follow up discussion about knowing a person’s mother. This could be confusing to some.
You are talking about knowing the mother in order to know the son but then you say “as a husband knows his wife”. I’m sorry but, even setting spousal intimacy aside, I don’t feel that I need to know my wife’s mother as well as I need to know my wife (though my MIL is a tremendous lady).

You said above that, “It is very difficult to have an intimate relationship with Christ, as intimate as the relationship between spouses, when one lacks the intimacy with Mary.

I find the “spouse” reference to be a good one and one that is seen in the writings of many great saints when speaking of how we should seek to be one with Christ.

However, if a woman is seeking to become the spouse of a man, the relationship she has with the man’s mother is entirely secondary. It is useful and even necessary to be sure for through the mother one can learn many things that will make the son happy. However, regardless of how close the woman might or might not feel to the Mother, she can still Love the son, her spouse, with all of her heart.
Not only that, but the Mother would expect nothing less. She would not expect that the woman love her as much as the woman love the son. She would not be offended if the woman did not lavish praise on her for the mother would understand and expect that the woman cling fully and completely to her son.

Peace
James
 
I remember seeing a movie about Padre Pio, there was a part where he took the jewels off of the statue of Mary in the church and sold them to give money to the poor people of Petrelcina
 
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