Is The Catholic Church against the death penalty?

[hosemonkey]

I strongly disagree with the death penalty as it is presently constituted. Too much time elapses between conviction and punishment. Convicts languish for years at great expense, and only the lawyers profit. If a convict IS finally executed, only the judicial system and the family of the murdered remember what the execution is all about. A modest proposal: After conviction, a Super Appeal, where all resources are turned to ensuring the rightness of the death penalty verdict. If, after one year, no evidence is found to the contrary, the sentence is carried out. The mechanism of death, the guillotine. Fast, sure and painless. If we get busy, we could clean out the human garbage in our death rows in a couple of years. THEN, you have a deterent. Certainty of punishment is a deterent, dying of old age on death row, at taxpayer expense, is not.

 

[Cruxis117]

Perhaps you are right even then the death penalty is still needed, especailly in countries who’s prison systems are not as good as our. By the the thank you very much for the charitable comment.

My charitable comment was in relation to yours.

And yes, I am correct. And no, it is not needed. Who are we to judge who lives and who dies? Are we God’s executors? Where in the bible, or specifically, the New Testament, does it say that we are given the right to kill a person?

 

[Cruxis117]

The innocent unborn have committed no crimes. Criminals that are executed have committed crimes, like murder. It is not contradictory at all to be pro-life and pro-capital punishment.

But the unborn have the ability to commit crimes once they are born. Think about what you’re saying. Do all humans have the right to live? If the children do, the adults do as well. You cannot be pro-“life” and pro-“death” at the same time. Yes, the criminals have committed crimes, but this is not our place to kill them.If the Church is against Abortion, then it is contradictory and impossible for a Catholic that is faithful to the Church to be Pro-Capital Punishment, which puts men in place of God in judgement of life.

Although it is stated that a person can choose to either be for or against the death penalty, according to Catholic Teaching, I have found that it is highly immoral to use the death penalty, as it degrades and humiliates the prisoner in question.

Do to others as you would do to yourself.

 

[FAB]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

The Church’s teaching on capital punishment has reversesd since Pius X and it has nothing to with left wing liberals. John Paul II taught the dignaty of life must be respected from natural conception to NATURAL death. The only time that the Church even considers the possibilty is when a person would be a continuing threat to society with no other options. The state of Texas now has life without parole with is a viable option. As a Catholic, traditional or not, we need to heed the words of JP II and work to see the elimination of the death penalty.

 

[MarcusAndreas]

How about exile to an island…Give em shelter, supplies to get them started…Sensors to check inbound outbound craft…Let them care for themselves…
Save a ton of taxpayer money…Job loss would be the only downside…But hey we could use the extra labor to secure the border…

That’s more or less how Australia as we know it came to be.

OP, no. Read some Aquinian philosophy on the death penalty.

 

[NE_Catholic]

I’m against the death penalty. Period
I can not imagine life without parole. We just had a quote from Pam Smart about it.

bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1290690&pos=breaking

 

[GEddie]

I’m against the death penalty. Period
I can not imagine life without parole. We just had a quote from Pam Smart about it.

bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1290690&pos=breaking

Easy for her to say that, now that she knows she is safe from execution.

If she were woken up in the night and told, “Ok, your wish is granted,” bound, and led to a waiting noose, I dare say her feelings would change very quickly.

However nasty the general society’s punishments may be, the sheer horror of death is a class unto itself.

ICXC NIKA

 

[puzzleannie]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

I don’t know how anyone, no matter what their religion can “admire” capital punishment (especially as practiced in Texas which is mostly w/o due process of law). Yes a Catholic can admit, in line with Church teaching, that there is a possibility that in some extreme cases capital punishment may be the only way to keep an offender from harming someone else, and that the state may be permitted, after due process, to inflict the ultimate punishment for that reason. If you want a political debate engaging “left wing liberals” why not post on a political forum. If you want traditional Catholic teaching, read the catechism.

btw those of us here in Texas who do oppose the way the death penalty is used in our state are for the most part among the most religiously conservative and pro-life individuals and organizations.

 

[NE_Catholic]

Easy for her to say that, now that she knows she is safe from execution.

If she were woken up in the night and told, “Ok, your wish is granted,” bound, and led to a waiting noose, I dare say her feelings would change very quickly.

However nasty the general society’s punishments may be, the sheer horror of death is a class unto itself.

ICXC NIKA

Sure if she was incarcerated at 65 or 70. She’s spent 20 years in jail. I can not imagine it. And she wil spend the rest of her time there. I myself would choose execution.

 

[archangel04]

My charitable comment was in relation to yours.

And yes, I am correct. And no, it is not needed. Who are we to judge who lives and who dies? Are we God’s executors? Where in the bible, or specifically, the New Testament, does it say that we are given the right to kill a person?

Even though the Church allows this form of punishment when it’s needed? So I am sure then you also bealive we are to never go to war right? Even if we got invaded? Because we can’t kill anyone we are not executioners. So if one see their families being hurt we must do nothing right? Need to wake up and see what the world is like.

 

[Warrenton]

Some thoughts:

To begin, I interpret the statement “admire the Texas system” really to ask whether traditional RCs can support it.

I would characterize myself as pretty traditional (EF worshipper, admirer of Pope St. Pius X).

The short answer is no.

St. Thomas Aq. has been quoted extensively already, so we all know the “party line.”

The rub: What St. Thomas says is required is not what happens in the Lone Star state, or anywhere else. The punishment is meted out arbitrarilly, and the convictions are often based on purely circumstantial evidence: ie, no eyewitnesses, or no corroboration of a single witness. Co-defendants frequently get charged with different offenses in exchange for incriminating their partners, giving rise to serious questions about credibility and responsibility, not to mention proportionality in punishment.

I do not find the arguments about the cost of the death penalty convincing, btw. First, the numbers are manipulated by both advocates and opponents. If you don’t have a death penalty case, it is not as though all the judges and lawyers and jailors take a vacation!
And if you abolished the death penalty, it isn’t as if the Dept of Corrections, the Courts and the police are going to give the money back.

The focus should be on ensuring that only the most dangerous criminals are executed, after a fair trial on sufficient evidence.

Alas, that is still quite aspirational.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

“Admire” is a strange word to use in this thought.

Have you gotten a spiritual director yet?

Another thing to add to the growing list to discuss with him.

 

[JHow]

…you don’t have a death penalty case, it is not as though all the judges and lawyers and jailors take a vacation!
And if you abolished the death penalty, it isn’t as if the Dept of Corrections, the Courts and the police are going to give the money back…

A good point. Govt. labor is all overhead. It does seem unlikely the citizens would ever see a “no-death-penalty” rebate.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

But the unborn have the ability to commit crimes once they are born. .

Wrong, babies can not sin till they reach the age of reason.

 

[FAB]

Even though the Church allows this form of punishment when it’s needed? So I am sure then you also bealive we are to never go to war right? Even if we got invaded? Because we can’t kill anyone we are not executioners. So if one see their families being hurt we must do nothing right? Need to wake up and see what the world is like.

Capital Punishment and going to war are not even related. The Church does have a just war doctrine and invation or attack is only one of several standards that must be met.
Catholics are called to bring the Kingdom of God here and now, not to give into what the 'world is like", we must rise above that and set the higher goal and standard.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I find this post somewhat funny (peculiar rather than haha). There are posts on this Forum about how secular western Europe is and how religious the US is. Then we also discover how much in favour of the death penalty Americans are.

God said: “You shall not kill”. (Ex. 20:13; Deut. 5:17)

“Human life is sacred …” (CCC #2258)

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offence incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically nonexistent. (CCC #2267) (Emphasis is mine.)

IMO you cannot be both a Catholic and ‘admire’ or be in favour of killing any other human being. Abortion, murder, capital punishment are all wrong.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

What’s to decide? Don’t we bother with the Decalogue any more? Where do we decide the fifth commandment applies and when it doesn’t. Why can’t I have an abortion because four children is enough? Why can’t I kill an elderly relative because he’s got Alzheimers and in my opinion has no quality of life? I can’t because they’re wrong! So, why can it be OK for the state to kill people? I can accept when the Church teaches that I can defend myself from a person trying to kill me and that if in my defence techniques that other person dies I am not guilty of murder. It would be very difficult to live with and I don’t know how I would cope with the guilt. I can also just about accept the theory of just war. However, capital punishment is well-planned homicide that does not take place in the heat of the moment and it does not immediately protect any life. I like to think of myself as a good Catholic and I accept what the magisterium teaches but I cannot accept that the Church does not condemn it. The CCC says (and a bit of it I quoted in my last post) is that there may be very limited circumstances when capital punishment might be permitted but it draws the conclusion that the need for it would be so rare that there probably is no need for it.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

May be it’s do not kill because that’s what God intended.

 

[hosemonkey]

May be it’s do not kill

because that’s what God intended.

Disagree.
Some people are so rotten and depraved that they just NEED killing. Society is entitled to protect itself against such people and locking them up for life at taxpayer’s expense is cruel and unusual punishment, both for the convict and for the taxpayer. The leatherheaded liberals and kumbaya handwringers should be taxed extra to pay for maintaining this human refuse, if they don’t have the stomach to terminate murderers, rapists, child killers and molesters and traitors. I know what the Church says, but this is one area where the Church and I disagree.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Some people are so rotten and depraved that they just NEED killing.

That statement is just so wrong on so many levels.

Society is entitled to protect itself against such people…

Agreed but not by state-sanctioned cold blooded murder. And, how does it protect society? Most murderers are not serial killers. The convict has already murdered someone. In most cases, I know not all, but is the vast majority, they will not go on to commit further murders. In any case to protect itself society can keep them in prison for life. I find that acceptable because I do not believe that they should go unpunished. I wished life meant life in the UK but it rarely does.

The leatherheaded liberals and kumbaya handwringers should be taxed extra to pay for maintaining this human refuse, if they don’t have the stomach to terminate murderers, rapists, child killers and molesters and traitors.

May be those people who take your stance should be the executioners. Could you stomach that? Could you honestly terminate the life of a total stranger in cold blood? Good luck when you come to answer to your Maker.

I know what the Church says, but this is one area where the Church and I disagree.

May be you don’t need to agree because several posters on here have said the Church leaves us to make up our minds (with no sources cited I note) but then they’re probably referring to the Latin Catholic Church. I see you’re Orthodox and I am unaware of the Orthodox Churches’ stance on capital punishment.