Is the Catholic Church the one true church?

[Robert_Heibel]

(Matthew 16:18 - 19) “So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church. And the gates of the underworld can never hold out against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: whatever you bind on earth shall be considered bound in heaven; whatever lose on earth shall be considered loosed in heaven.”

I believe the Roman Catholic Church uses this Scripture to tell everyone it is the one true Church. The Pope is said to be the direct successor of Peter, and the Church interprets this to mean that the Pope is the final authority on all Spiritual matters. Personally I don’t know if it could be the one true Church, or not.

Peter walked in many of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit but who can remember any Church leader who has prayed for someone, who has died, and had that person come back to life? Name the last successor of Peter’s who when he walked the streets; people would bring there sick out so that his shadow would fall on them and they would be healed.

Peter was the rock on which Jesus built His Church. Before Pentecost and Peter receiving the Holy Spirit, he wasn’t very sturdy. The Holy Spirit made Peter strong enough for Jesus to build His Church upon.

(1 Corinthians 4:18-21) “When it seemed that I was not coming to visit you, some of you became self-important, but I will be visiting you soon, the Lord willing, and then I shall want to know not what these self-important people have to say, but what they can do, since the kingdom of God is not just words, it is power. It is for you to decide: do I come with a stick in my hand or in a spirit of love and goodwill?

(John 19:15-17) “After the meal Jesus said to Simon Peter, ‘Simon son of John, do you Love me more than these others do? He answered, ‘Yes Lord, you know I love you. Jesus said to him, ‘Feed my lambs. A second time he said to him, ‘Simon son of John, do you love me?’ He replied, ‘Yes, Lord, you know I love you’. Jesus said to him, ‘Look after my sheep’. Then he said to him a third time, ‘Simon son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was upset that he asked him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ and said, ‘Lord, you know everything; you know I love you’. Jesus said to him, ‘Feed my sheep’.

Jesus asked Peter each time if he loved Him before He gave him the command to feed His people. Would Jesus have asked Peter to feed His people if Peter didn’t love Jesus? I think not. Well, I don’t think Jesus would be asking the people who lead the churches today to feed His people. (John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

Paul in (Galatians 1:8-9) “and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.” What Paul said, is Scriptural, and he didn’t give anyone the right to change the Word of God. Not even the Church!

 

[Todd_Easton]

The extraordinary gift of working miracles is given by the Spirit to whomever He wills. (1 Corinthians 12:11) This extraordinary gift has been present in some of the members of the Catholic Church throughout its 2000 year history, including some popes. In fact, the Church is currently investigating alledged miracles attributed to the intercession of the late Pope John Paul II, both before and after his death.

The only extraordinary gift of the Spirit shared by Peter and each of his 264 successors, the bishops of Rome (the popes), is the one absolutely necessary for their office, the gift of an infallible faith that they might strengthen their brethern. (Luke 22:31-32)

 

[E.E.N.S]

Robert Heibel:

What Paul said, is Scriptural, and he didn’t give anyone the right to change the Word of God. Not even the Church!

Amen! And thank God for the Church protecting that Word for the last 2000 years!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

If you ask a Catholic Church member if she is the one true Church, that person will say yes except on an anonymous poll, in which case most of them will say yes.

If you ask a non-Catholic if she is the one true church, the answer will likely be no.

It all depends on who you ask.

There is no judge impartial who can prove one right and the other wrong. Our belief in Catholicism being true is based on our faith, not subject to logical or mathematical discovery.

Alan

 

[adnauseum]

Yes the Catholic Church is the one true Church.

Read the Early Church Fathers - they refer to the Church as such long before little Martin Luther was a twinkle in his daddy’s eye.

Quoting the bible to deny the authority of the Church is self-defeating, some might say bizarre, since the Church itself compiled and canonized the bible.

To deny either of these two well-established facts is insanity.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

adnauseum:

Yes the Catholic Church is the one true Church.

Read the Early Church Fathers - they refer to the Church as such long before little Martin Luther was a twinkle in his daddy’s eye.

Quoting the bible to deny the authority of the Church is self-defeating, some might say bizarre, since the Church itself compiled and canonized the bible.

To deny either of these two well-established facts is insanity.

You went and said my magic word, “insanity.”

fact 1: the fathers of the Catholic Church lived before Luther.

fact 2: it is self-defeating, in that the Church wrote, transcribed, however you want to say it, she put those human words on paper in whatever language it did. Even if we can agree with the Church that the words in those particular books are inspired by God, one has to accept the Church as the sole authority to interpret, today in 2005, how those teachings from the Bible apply to everyday life. The Church says the Bible itself clearly states as much, but the reason we believe her assertion is that we already have accepted her as an authority. It is not a circular argument as one CA tract says, but it is a “spiral” argument. At some point you have to believe that whatever Pope is in place at any given time has the same infallible authority as Peter – and in fact that the Bible claims Peter to be infallible. If “infallible” means Dude Ultimately In Charge then not problem. If “infallible” means One Human Dude Able To Discern Without Error, that is quite another assertion that some logical people trying to discover truth would not buy the Bible says except on the authority of the Church.

That all said, it is bizarre that so few Protestants understand that is was the Catholic Church that promulgated the Bible. I agree with you on that. I wonder if they found out, if they’d decide maybe the Bible wasn’t so great after all?

You’ve proven by your assertions 1) that the Catholic Church is the oldest Christian Church, and 2) that she promulgated the Bible.

It takes additional logic to get from there to “the Catholic Church is the One True Church.”

Alan

 

[adnauseum]

AlanFromWichita:

Our belief in Catholicism being true is based on our faith, not subject to logical or mathematical discovery.

I follow your view. Belief in the authority of the Church for me is embedded in the facts of salvation history, not a logical argument per se. I laughed when you mentioned mathematical discovery because that’s exactly what I think is often attempted.

Woody Allen had a line in a book - if I remember it right - about being able to determine the meaning of life mathematically with the added convenience that you could carry it around in your wallet.

 

[NotWorthy]

adnauseum:

Woody Allen had a line in a book - if I remember it right - about being able to determine the meaning of life mathematically with the added convenience that you could carry it around in your wallet.

According to Douglas Adams, isn’t the answer 42???

NotWorthy

 

[St.Colette]

Yes the catholic church is the one true church! It is the ONLY church created by God. The other denominations are and were created by people. The catholic church has been around the longest.

 

[magdalisa]

Yes, praise God for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

peace–
magdalisa

 

[CheesusPowerKid]

Christ himself founded our Church through the apostles, and He personally comes to our table in the modest form of bread and wine at every mass…that’s all I’ll ever need to know

 

[Jimmy_B]

Robert Heibel
Paul in (Galatians 1:8-9) “and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it be ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned.” What Paul said, is Scriptural, and he didn’t give anyone the right to change the Word of God. Not even the Church

Quote*:” What Paul said, is Scriptural….”*

Response: How did you come to the conclusion that “What Paul said, is Scriptural”?

When you refer to “scriptural” I’m assuming you are referring to the Bible, or “Bible Alone”, a book that was completed several hundred years after the death of the first Apostles. How could Paul possibly be referring to the Bible, as we know it today, when it did not exist prior to Paul’s comments, which are in the Bible? A book organized and put together by the Catholic Church? Remember, you are citing a verse from the Bible, a comment made by St. Paul that was said first and then written later. In addition, Galatians 1:8-9 states, “If anyone preachesa version of the Good News.” He didn’t say, “If anyone recites or reads aloud a version of the “Bible”.

John 20:30

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of (his) disciples that are not written in this book.

John 21

24 It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true.

25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

**
**

Remarks made by Martin Luther

“We are compelled to concede to the Papists (Catholic’s) that they have the Word of GOD (Bible), that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all.”

 

[Jimmy_B]

(.” What Paul said, is Scriptural, and he didn’t give anyone the right to change the Word of God. Not even the Church!

Response:

Are you implying that the Catholic Church has changed the “Word of God”? Are you basing your opinions on your own personal interpretation of the Bible? The Bible that was passed on to you from the Catholic Church?

**
2 Peter 1: 20
20 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,
**Matthew 18:17- **17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
18 Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke ****10:1616 Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."

Acts****
Chapter 10
42 He commissioned us to preach to the people and testify that he is the one appointed by God as judge of the living and the dead.
**
**Jesus has told us that he has not revealed all truths to us. **

**
**
****Jn 16:12-13 ****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth.

Jesus then told us how he was planning to assist us in knowing other truths.

**Jn 15:26 **
When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me.

**2 Tim 2:2 **
And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust (parathou) to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

2 Thess 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions (paradoseis) that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

Timothy 3: 16-17 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

 

[Robert_Heibel]

Hi Jimmy B,

(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects Me and refuses My words has his judge already, the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.”
(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” Does the Catholic teach us not to store?

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

Doesn’t the Catholic Church teach that Christian’s have a right to be part of a “Just War”?

(Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(Hebrews 6:4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from Heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

How then can men who claim to be ministers of God, and commit some of the gravest sins, still be accepted as Christians, even as ministers?

I wonder Jimmy if you ever had the Holy Spirit or Jesus explain any of the Scriptures that you or I just quoted?

Yours in Christ,

Robert Heibel

Y

 

[NotWorthy]

Robert Heibel:

How then can men who claim to be ministers of God, and commit some of the gravest sins, still be accepted as Christians, even as ministers?

I wonder Jimmy if you ever had the Holy Spirit or Jesus explain any of the Scriptures that you or I just quoted?

Yours in Christ,

Robert Heibel

Y

Robert? Just what are you trying to say?

NotWorthy

 

[1tabledotcom]

As a protestant, and a Lutheran at that, I was always brought up to consider the Catholic Church’s literal translation of St. Peter as the Rock to be ill-placed.

And as a Christian (and soon-to-be convert) I’d say that part really isn’t as important as what follows.

“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: whatever you bind on earth shall be considered bound in heaven; whatever lose on earth shall be considered loosed in heaven.”

Is this not the meat in the passage? Reguardless of Peter as the rock or not, the keys to heaven were given to him. Christ gave Peter the authority there (if nowhere else) to “bind”.

 

[adnauseum]

Robert is saying that he watches a lot of T.V. and hopes others watch T.V. Seeing a nice propaganda opportunity, he insinuates that the pedophilia scandal proves that priests are sinners therefore in Robert’s world the Church is false.

It’s a cheap shot.

Unfortunately, Robert uses the Holy Scriptures which were established under the Authority of the Roman Catholic Church to prove that the Roman Catholic Church has no Authority.

Yes, it’s bizarre. But such is the age we live in.

 

[adnauseum]

1tabledotcom:

As a protestant, and a Lutheran at that, I was always brought up to consider the Catholic Church’s literal translation of St. Peter as the Rock to be ill-placed.

And as a Christian (and soon-to-be convert) I’d say that part really isn’t as important as what follows.

Is this not the meat in the passage? Reguardless of Peter as the rock or not, the keys to heaven were given to him. Christ gave Peter the authority there (if nowhere else) to “bind”.

I agree with you completely. I think that’s the key to the whole thing.

 

[Robert_Heibel]

NotWorthy:

Robert? Just what are you trying to say?

NotWorthy

I as a Christian who believes the Bible is the Word of God, and has read (Hebrews 6:4) has a hard time believing a person who willfully sins has ever really known God.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(Hebrews 6:4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

Their have been many popes who were great sinners. How then could any person who didn’t know God hold the keys to the kingdom of God?

 

[adnauseum]

Robert Heibel:

Their have been many popes who were great sinners. How then could any person who didn’t know God hold the keys to the kingdom of God?

Yet heretic fundamentalists get all worked up when we claim that Mary the Mother of God was free from sin.

And you know what they say? Fundamentalist heretics say “all are sinners, it’s in the bible.”

Huh???

Which is it?

More and more I am convinced that since our enemies can’t seem to make up their minds exactly what they don’t like about us, we in the Catholic Church are just right.