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B
byers
Guest
Wearing a headcovering is NOT a devotion. The word devotion is being used incorrectly to promote a practice, which although very nice, is NOT a devotion. Never in the Church has this lovely custom been referred to as a devotion.
P
PatienceAndLove
Guest
Since it is no longer required, and many women feel called to the practice, it can be considered a devotion.
P
planter654
Guest
May I ask this question which is concerning me. Why are we going back to a latin Mass. When I was a child growing up we had Latin Mass. Now I am older and the church is returning to it.
1.I do not go to a French mass because I feel I cannot participate in the mass because of the language. I do not understand after it feels like I did not even go to church. Music will be beautiful but?
- The veil I wore when young, the church stop it. That does not concern me though.
Talk about more and more confusion coming up in future years.
Oh the human mind. God is the same today as yesterday.
The tabernacle is no longer on the altar, but off to the side?
I first felt we turned our backs on God when the priest turned to say mass facing us, now we have taken God off the altar --what next?
Are we not there to praise and glorify him, not us?
Thanks-- God Bless
P
PatienceAndLove
Guest
You will have to start a new thread for that, because that is off topic here.
I created a thread for you here
S
Sarabande
Guest
I’m not disagreeing with you, but I think why some of us use the word “devotion” or “devotional” is because for those who do practicing veiling in church, they use it as one sign of devotion to God. It’s a physical dedication/commitment/love of our faith in God.
Perhaps the Church has never officially referred to it as a “devotion”, but if you look up the word in a thesauras, all of these words: dedication, devoutness, commitment, ardor, chastity, love, honour, integrity, faith, fidelity, reverence, piety,etc. are all words associated with the word. And these are all things we are wanting to show to God when we veil. I guess it’s not technically a “devotion”, but at the same time it is for many who practice this sign of love and devotion to God.
And let me emphasize that I don’t think it’s better than women who don’t veil. I don’t always veil myself, but I do believe it is a beautiful outward sign of a person’s devotion and faith to God.
C
Cathryn
Guest
From Catholic Dictionary by John A. Hardon, S.J.:
DEVOTION. The disposition of will to do promptly what concerns the worship and service of God. Although devotion is primarily a disposition or attitude of the will, acts of the will that proceed from such disposition are also expressions of devotion. Essential to devotion is readiness to do whatever gives honor to God, whether in public or private prayer (worship) or in doing the will of God (service). A person who is thus disposed is said to be devoted. His devotedness is ultimately rooted in a great love for God which in spiritual theology is often called devotion. (Etym. Latin devotio, state, act, or expression of being devoted; from devovere, to vow.)
In most of the history of the Church wearing a headcovering was canon law, therefore it wasn’t considered a “devotion”. Now it can be private devotion. I also refer to my wearing a veil as a private devotion. I don’t expect anyone else to do it; it’s not mandated by the Church. I do it to give honor to God.
C
catholicknight
Guest
Correction: It is no longer required in canon law, but the Church never dispensed of the custom, nor am I aware of an instance where the Church officially made it optional. My understanding is that the Church no longer chooses to enforce this custom under the new Code of Canon Law, which in my understanding means the Church simply chooses not to be our nanny on such matters anymore.
However, the Biblical mandate still remains, and nothing has abrogated it. Then of course there is the matter of our historic traditions. The only difference now being that it’s a personal matter between a woman and her reading of the Bible. The Scripture says what it says, and it cannot be changed. There are those who say this is merely a cultural norm, but aside from the fact that it would be odd for St. Paul to waste so much ink on a supposed “cultural norm,” we could just as easily say the custom as been the cultural norm of Roman Catholicism for nearly 2,000 years.
I find nothing in Scripture, nor in my limited knowledge of tradition, to suggest that this is a “devotion” simply for women who are “called to it.” It seems to me there is something more.
The new Code of Canon Law has made it clear that it will no longer enforce this issue with any kind of penalty. Catholic women need not worry about any consequences for not wearing a veil anymore. And in all honesty, I think the Church made a wise decision with that. The whole idea of forcing women to veil sort of defeats the whole purpose of veiling if you ask me. So the Church places the ball back in the women’s court, leaving it for them to decide on their own. In spite of that, however, the Scriptures say what they say, and the Scriptures cannot be changed.
C
Cathryn
Guest
I agree with your post, there is definitely more to it than a simple personal devotion. The “Divine Prohibition against women appearing in church with their heads uncovered” as Archbishop Fulton Sheen refers to it, remains in force. And as you stated God would not include the divine prohibition in the detail He did, without a reason, including stating how it relates to a woman’s role with Jesus and His Church and to do it for the angels.
Code:
I would also like to add that when the Church was silent on the veil, the militant Church feminists took that as a signal that a woman could be a priest. She could stand in for Jesus Christ on the altar at the Catholic Mass and change bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. In Confession she could forgive sins in the persona of Jesus Christ. They understood exactly what the veil signified, and took it to its extreme conclusion.
A woman wearing a veil accepts that she has a different role, which has as her head Jesus Christ. She can not stand in for Jesus Christ at the altar by taking off a veil. The Church has declared that a woman priesthood is not something the Church has the ability to allow. The case is closed there. A woman is not a man, although both are equal in human dignity. The veil is among many things an acknowlegement of this difference. The sight of a veil angers many of those who want there to be no difference.
J
Just_1_hr_a_wk
Guest
A woman who does not - will not - wear a veil is not always one who supports ordination of women.
C
Cathryn
Guest
I agree.
B
byers
Guest
Just because it is no longer required and because some women feeled “called” to wear a headcovering at Mass, still doesn’t make it a devotion. What it is is an old custom that some would like to see revived. But it is NOT a devotion.
B
byers
Guest
I am also surprised to see the term “veiling” used. This smacks more of moslem terminology than anything Catholic. Catholic women in the past were required to wear a “headcovering”. NEVER was it ever specified that it must be a veil. Nor were Catholic women ever referred to as “veiling”.
In fact what most women wore throughout the centuries was a scarf or a hat. Not these lacy mantillas and veils that look like something from a victoria secret catalog. I think the idea has recently become romanticized.
The original idea in St Paul’s writings was that a woman be modestly attired and in the custom of that day…that meant that a woman was expected to cover her head. Today we might at least expect woman to dress in whatever is considered modest.
If you really want to be humble and “devoted” try wearing a regular old scarf tied in a knot under your chin…rather than a glamorous mantilla…or go the full route and try a burka
In fact what most women wore throughout the centuries was a scarf or a hat. Not these lacy mantillas and veils that look like something from a victoria secret catalog. I think the idea has recently become romanticized.
The original idea in St Paul’s writings was that a woman be modestly attired and in the custom of that day…that meant that a woman was expected to cover her head. Today we might at least expect woman to dress in whatever is considered modest.
If you really want to be humble and “devoted” try wearing a regular old scarf tied in a knot under your chin…rather than a glamorous mantilla…or go the full route and try a burka
S
Sarabande
Guest
My grandmother, greatgrandmothers, mother, aunts, etc all wore lace mantillas of some sort. They look pretty much like the one mantilla that I have now. This was on both my caucasion and my Filipino/Spanish sides. It was also long before Victoria Secret and had nothing to do with being romantic. This was normal part of life. Kind of presumptious to think that every woman who chooses to wear a mantilla are doing it out of vanity.
Prior to regular “hat-wearing” women would wear some sort of a veil over their head pieces or under their head pieces. You almost never saw a women without a veil/headcovering/hat in the outdoors prior to the 20th century. In the 18th century, if you didn’t have a cap and even if you had a hat, you always wore a little lace cover that was like a veil. Sometimes you would have the veil over the hat. I’m not a historian, but I’m very interested in historical fashions and what was worn. I am also an 18th century reeanctor, so I have to know at least a little about this and the group I belong to insists on as close to authenticity as possible. So, although women did wear hats, there was still a good many women who wore veils throughout the centuries.
Honestly, many of my scarves are from Hermes (all gifts - I didn’t buy them myself ), so that would be really ostentatious for me to wear something like that at mass over my head for all to see. I’d rather my humble, $10.00 lace mantilla.
I think you are taking the word “veiling” too seriously. It’s just a faster way of saying that you wear a veil or headcover.
I mean, gosh, I ‘veiled’ my head on my wedding day. 
A blessed Christmas to all!!!1
Prior to regular “hat-wearing” women would wear some sort of a veil over their head pieces or under their head pieces. You almost never saw a women without a veil/headcovering/hat in the outdoors prior to the 20th century. In the 18th century, if you didn’t have a cap and even if you had a hat, you always wore a little lace cover that was like a veil. Sometimes you would have the veil over the hat. I’m not a historian, but I’m very interested in historical fashions and what was worn. I am also an 18th century reeanctor, so I have to know at least a little about this and the group I belong to insists on as close to authenticity as possible. So, although women did wear hats, there was still a good many women who wore veils throughout the centuries.
Honestly, many of my scarves are from Hermes (all gifts - I didn’t buy them myself ), so that would be really ostentatious for me to wear something like that at mass over my head for all to see. I’d rather my humble, $10.00 lace mantilla.
I think you are taking the word “veiling” too seriously. It’s just a faster way of saying that you wear a veil or headcover.
I mean, gosh, I ‘veiled’ my head on my wedding day. A blessed Christmas to all!!!1
B
byers
Guest
I, too, wore chapel veils and lace mantillas, but it was not the norm, although it was not infrequent. Just as many wore scarves and hats.
I’m sorry but “veiling” is a new terminology, NEVER before used by Catholic women, and it offends my catholic sensibilities. Even on her wedding day women would not say they were “veiling”…they would say they are wearing a veil. “Veiling” has a greater connotation than just wearing a headcovering. Muslims use it often and it meaning is, I assure you, not just wearing a headcovering.
C
Cathryn
Guest
I think you are taking the word “veiling” too seriously. It’s just a faster way of saying that you wear a veil or headcover.
A blessed Christmas to all!!!1
P
PatienceAndLove
Guest
We veil many things in Church. The Holy of Holies was behind a veil. So it is not a new term. The Muslims have taken the term and made it their own with their own definition.
Anyway- we alternate on the word usage anyway. Some say veil, others say headcover. It’s semantics and not worth arguing over.
P
PatienceAndLove
Guest
Why “will not”, out of curiosity.
J
Just_1_hr_a_wk
Guest
As with any devotion, devotional aide or practice - one prays as they can - not as they can’t.
If one is NOT drawn to wearing a head covering there can come a time one simply stops pretending otherwise.
S
surgei
Guest
I think it a shame that more women do not choose to wear a head cover, I also feel it a shame that more men do not grow beards. The two are linked in the mind of the early church. They show the otherworldliness we have a Christians.
I went to the TLM with my buddy for Christmas. It was standing room only even in the overflow. I don’t know that I saw anyone not veiled.
As it was standing room only and I am not Roman Catholic but an Old Calenderist Orthodox, I felt my being in the pew was taking from someone that really wanted and needed to be there so I went to hang out with the othe delinquents in the book store off the side of the sacristy. In addition to talking about hunting and games/texts on phones with the guys, I read a book written by a friend of mine on chapel veils. It was great and if I can find the title I’ll post it for those who are interested.
My friend like me is not that old. She wrote about all the symbolism of the veil, and why she as a college kid was picking up the old ladies thing. It was great. I think it is the only time in my wife I ever wished I was a woman. I have five sisters, two mothers and an uncle that is an OB/GYN. I have never before and probably never will wish I was a woman. Even the unvirtuous are saints with what women have to put up with.
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