Is The Chapel Veil Coming Back?

[Marsha_Adams]

However one red flag that keeps hitting me is the incredible defensiveness of those who choose to wear a headcovering. And I can’t help but wonder why.

Interesting, it is the anti-covers on this thread who appear to me as being incredibly defensive about the subject. So many of their postings can be paraphrased down to, “I don’t have to cover and you can’t make me.” Why the hostility against a personal preference?

Those who choose to cover have received great blessings from doing so. They would like to see the anti-coverers to receive these same blessings. What do the anti-coverers receive from not covering?

 

[DJgang]

Very well said. I would much rather see shoulders ,legs and ladies chests covered than worry about whether heads are covered or not!

I made mention on another one of those threads discussing head covering…that IF the custom, tradition, or whatever everyone wants to call it…private devotion, were to make a come back…wouldn’t we see more modesty in the church? and I was replied by another poster saying…I don’t know, maybe you should ask the muslims or maybe everyone should start wearing burkas…and heck, that isn’t at all what I meant…

What I meant, was that, I have never seen a woman, while head covering, letting it all hang out or dressing immodestly. Therefore, I bring up the point… head covering = modesty.

I’m NOT saying that all women should head cover and that those who do not are immodest. I am saying…probably back when most women DID head cover, was there a problem with modesty as we see today. I’m thinking not. But of course I wasn’t there. I would like someone to think about that and try to post something nice to me without mentioning burkas!

 

[lizaanne]

Interesting, it is the anti-covers on this thread who appear to me as being incredibly defensive about the subject. So many of their postings can be paraphrased down to, “I don’t have to cover and you can’t make me.” Why the hostility against a personal preference?

Those who choose to cover have received great blessings from doing so. They would like to see the anti-coverers to receive these same blessings. What do the anti-coverers receive from not covering?

Marsha Marsha Marsha! (sorry, couldn’t resist )

I love your post - and I wonder the same things myself.

~Liza

 

[Indyann]

Interesting, it is the anti-covers on this thread who appear to me as being incredibly defensive about the subject. So many of their postings can be paraphrased down to, “I don’t have to cover and you can’t make me.” Why the hostility against a personal preference?

Those who choose to cover have received great blessings from doing so. They would like to see the anti-coverers to receive these same blessings. What do the anti-coverers receive from not covering?

I am not an “anti-cover”. I am a “cover if you want to”.

Now can you please tell me just what blessings you have recieved bcause you cover? What blessings that you would not have recieved if you did not cover?

Which blessings would you like to see the “anti-covers” to recieve?

Is reading the mind of God one of those blessings?

 

[catholic79]

I think both the anti covers and the covers are a little defensive, and to be honest as someone trying to find a position on this issue I am defensive that the two sides of the issue are so against those who are contemplating wearing a veil.

 

[monicatholic]

What do you mean it is not a private devotion?

clarification: it’s a private devotion executed in public. i was fairly clear as to why this uncompelling to my personal situation.

I think though, more important in my post, was the consideration of the Church’s interpretation of the Scriptural references to head coverings. To repeat: the Church has NOT erred in its less stringent interpretation and application.

 

[lizaanne]

I think both the anti covers and the covers are a little defensive, and to be honest as someone trying to find a position on this issue I am defensive that the two sides of the issue are so against those who are contemplating wearing a veil.

I cover my head, and I personally couldn’t care less what anyone else wants to do or not do. So don’t lump me in that wide net you are casting out there. If someone feels called to do this, I think it is wonderful. If they are not, well then, that’s their decision, and I certainly do not look down on them for that. I just don’t understand where all this contention comes from, and why everyone (on both sides of the fence) feels so threatened.

~Liza

 

[catholic79]

I cover my head, and I personally couldn’t care less what anyone else wants to do or not do. So don’t lump me in that wide net you are casting out there. If someone feels called to do this, I think it is wonderful. If they are not, well then, that’s their decision, and I certainly do not look down on them for that. I just don’t understand where all this contention comes from, and why everyone (on both sides of the fence) feels so threatened.

~Liza

I wasn’t trying to cast a wide net. I should have been clearer that there are SOME on both sides that make me feel this way. I enjoy your posts and was certainly not thinking of you when I posted my last comment.

This judgmental attitude on both sides and again not from everyone has been frustrating me the past few days. I should just let this thread go or at least not post on it.

Mary

 

[Cathryn]

What I have learned from this thread is that some see the veil as a woman’s rights issue. I don’t see it that way. I am a liberated woman because I am a child of God, made in the image and likeness of God and equal with men in human dignity. I don’t see a head covering as a sign of oppression by men, but of submission to God. I don’t see the woman’s right movement as having done a whole lot of good in the way of liberating woman. Any good has not outweighed the tremendous evil they have done in the way of the sexual revolution, birth control, and abortion. The unveiled Blessed Mother is Cardinal Mahoney’s role model for woman. The veiled Blessed Mother is my role model.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

What I have learned from this thread is that some see the veil as a woman’s rights issue. I don’t see it that way. I am a liberated woman because I am a child of God, made in the image and likeness of God and equal with men in human dignity. I don’t see a head covering as a sign of oppression by men, but of submission to God. I don’t see the woman’s right movement as having done a whole lot of good in the way of liberating woman. Any good has not outweighed the tremendous evil they have done in the way of the sexual revolution, birth control, and abortion. The unveiled Blessed Mother is Cardinal Mahoney’s role model for woman. The veiled Blessed Mother is my role model.

What I have seen here is plenty trying to make wearing one a good and Godly thing and not wearing one is the opposite.

It is a personal act, a personal choice, and has long stopped having the broader social implications it once had.

 

[beckers]

I

Beckers, I am sorry if you were slightly offended by my post. It was not meant to offend but to educate others about certain sites.

To tell you the truth the site ( drbo.org/ )you list at the end of your posts offends me because though I personally love the DR bible, I note there are several links on this page which are certainly NOT in union with the magisterium of the Church.

For example I see St Mary’s Academy which is a SSPX school and I believe the SSPX is still considered in schism. There is also a direct link to the main page of the SSPX. I also noted the Valtora publishers which publish the works of maria valtora whose ‘poem of the man-god’ was essentially condemned by the Church. I also noted links on the Mary Pages to unapproved marian apparitions…Now I could go on and on about this link you post, but that is enough to give the idea.

So before you find me too offensive…imagine how offended I feel finding that you are a supporter and promoter of a site which has many links against the teachings of our holy church.

by Beckers
I believe you may need to take another look at the sites whose viewpoints you obviously espouse as some of them are the very reason I am posting on this topic.
.

I am going to try to keep this as charitable as I can. I believe this post was completely out of line. I made a direct comment and told you why i was slightly offended by your post. Instead you ignored what I said and attacked my signature line and then went on about how I must be a supporter of schism groups. You assume way way too much. I only use the drbo.org as a search engine for the bible. I didn’t even realize that there were other links. Sorry I don’t have time while at work to go through and look at every single page of a website and then click on every link. I knew what quote I was looking for and did a general google search and came up with the website. I would have just left the bible quote by itself but I wanted to acknowledge for copyright reasons where I got the quote. I apologize if any of the links offend you. They are not my comments or any group that I support with my time or money. I’ve never been to SSPX church or services. Like I said when my friends who are “ultra-traditionalist” start ranting and raving about the state of the church and the problems within the church, I pretty much turn off my attention and don’t even get into the arguments. They may mean well but I am not going to get my opinions about the church from them. I am going to read the writings of the pope, saints, church leaders, the bible and the catechism. I also have a good relationship with a couple of priest and theologians so when I have questions or want a discussion I go to them since I know they are faithful to the Church.

The versus in question is my favorite quote because is shows Mary saying yes and submitting her whole life to the submission of God’s will. I want to strive to do this in my own life. It’s a long process. Wearing a covering is one way that helps me. I felt the calling to wear it so I listened. If you don’t feel the same then that is fine. I am not going to come to your church and yell in your face and tell you your going to hell for not covering and then put a covering on your head. I trust your discernment process and that the holy spirit will guide you in your faith journey. I only take offense to those comments and people that believe that those who choose to cover are doing so for bad or ill-informed reasons or to make a political point. I think the majority of women on this board who have replied with personal experience have shown that it’s a decision that they came to on their own and that they don’t force anyone else nor do they look down on women who don’t wear coverings. I wish people would just stop assuming things and actually listen to what people are saying.

 

[beckers]

What I have learned from this thread is that some see the veil as a woman’s rights issue. I don’t see it that way. I am a liberated woman because I am a child of God, made in the image and likeness of God and equal with men in human dignity. I don’t see a head covering as a sign of oppression by men, but of submission to God. I don’t see the woman’s right movement as having done a whole lot of good in the way of liberating woman. Any good has not outweighed the tremendous evil they have done in the way of the sexual revolution, birth control, and abortion. The unveiled Blessed Mother is Cardinal Mahoney’s role model for woman. The veiled Blessed Mother is my role model.

Thank you for your post. I think i am going to bow out of this dicussion because i am too long winded, can’t get directly to the point and take everything so personal. Your simple pargraph speaks volumes as to why i choose to wear a covering. God Bless You.

 

[Ignatius]

In the wake of the new translation changes coming to the English mass, some Catholic women are using the occasion as an opportunity to make a statement. Upon implementation of the new liturgy text, they plan to dawn the chapel veil… read more here

There are no vails. A head covering is not a veil!

 

[lizaanne]

There are no vails. A head covering is not a veil!

Oh for cryin’ out sideways!!! This is what I mean by contention - what is the hang up over semantics? Veil, mantilla, chapel veil, doily, tissue, hat, scarf, headband, lace, silk, burlap, burqa - what difference does it make? It COVERS THE HEAD!

Honestly - it’s this sort of petty nit-picking that turns these discussions into rock throwing contests. Can we all just agree that TODAY, in 2008, to cover one’s head with anything (for Catholic women) is also called (by some) veiling. Be it right wrong or indifferent - it is what it is. It is the evolution of the vocabulary. Today - this is how the word is used (by some).

Get over it.

~Liza

 

[Philothea53]

There are no vails. A head covering is not a veil!

1 Cor. 11:4-10 – Paul also teaches that a woman must cover her head when she prays or prophesies, especially in church: “Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head – it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels.”

Sounds to me as though Paul used the terms interchangeably. What’s your objection to the word?

 

[ancilla_Domini]

I am sorry - detail person in me kicking to get out

Mary did not wear lace nor mantillas.

LOL! I know THAT! And if there are days that I don’t have my lace mantilla with me, I wear a hat if I have one with me.

I’m just saying that it’s a small way to imitate her.

But I agree with someone else on page 18: I don’t think women who wear veils are any better than those who do not. Many of my friends don’t, and they’re some of the holiest girls I’ve ever met in my life. I believe it’s a preference.

 

[KathleenElsie]

What I have learned from this thread is that some see the veil as a woman’s rights issue. I don’t see it that way. I am a liberated woman because I am a child of God, made in the image and likeness of God and equal with men in human dignity. I don’t see a head covering as a sign of oppression by men, but of submission to God. I don’t see the woman’s right movement as having done a whole lot of good in the way of liberating woman. Any good has not outweighed the tremendous evil they have done in the way of the sexual revolution, birth control, and abortion. The unveiled Blessed Mother is Cardinal Mahoney’s role model for woman. The veiled Blessed Mother is my role model.

Well said.

 

[maria29]

My older relatives and friends all said that they never saw men and women seated separately in church back in the 1940’s. Apparently this part of the old Canon Law was never enforced.

The Catholic Church we attended for almost 2 year was split this way. On one side of the church all the pews had little hooks while the other did not. We asked the priest what they were for and they were hat clips for men. All the men had to sit on one side and the women on the other up until 1950’s

 

[ancilla_Domini]

So THAT’S what those clips are for! My friend, you’ve enlightened me! I thought they were envelope holders or coat clips. Haha!

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I am not an “anti-cover”. I am a “cover if you want to”.

Now can you please tell me just what blessings you have recieved bcause you cover? What blessings that you would not have recieved if you did not cover?

Which blessings would you like to see the “anti-covers” to recieve?

Is reading the mind of God one of those blessings?

Blessings that I have received by covering (not in any particular order):

1. Modesty - I can’t just dress any old way, while covered.
2. Prayerfulness - Being covered gives me a deeper physical sense of the Real Presence.
3. Reverence - I can’t chit chat while covered. It focuses my mind on the Mass and my mind doesn’t wander the way it does when not covered.
4. A desire to attend Mass more often.
5. Humility - a recognition of my own insignificance and sinfulness before a perfect and all powerful God.
6. A desire to go to confession more often.
7. Joy to be in God’s presence - before covering Mass was an obligation, Now that I cover it is not a matter of obedience to attend but instead it is looked forward to and greatly desired.

Blessings that I would like to see anti-coverers to receive:

Whatever blessings they need. These are the blessings God gave me, I would like to see the anti-coverers receive them, but they may not be the blessings that they need.