Is the Charismatic Renewal Catholic

[palmas85]

Comments such as I have highlighted, tell me you really DO NOT know anything about the Charismatic movement, but are rather paroting misinformation. If you do this from experience, I pray for you.

Would you mqke these comments to Popes Paul VI, John Paul II and Benmedict XVI. **Whether you know it or not, they are Charismatic and wholly endorse the movement. ** Follow their teaching, not misinformation from others.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Are you tryingto imply by this statement that the three Popes you mentioned were members of the charismatic movement? I know that in the past a few have tried to push forth the outright lie that Pope John Paul II was secretely a charismatic and prayed in tongues but of course that is always about fifth hand information from someone who knew someone who heard about it from someone who was there whenit happened.

Or are you trying to say something else? Please enlighten me. Your post seems rather vague.

 

[palmas85]

Not all forms of Catholic spirituality are the same. There is nothing inherently wrong with a more charismatic form of spirituality, just as there is nothing wrong with a more monastic form. That doesn’t mean that charismatics are prone to certain errors, but those errors don’t invalidate the whole movement anymore than Jansenism can invalidate monasticism.

When the errors are inherent to the movement it can certainly invalidate the entire movement. If the Charisms are valid, great, but the movement is wholly and completely unnecessary to bring them forth.

And before I start getting attacked on that one let me point out that a great many people are very susceptible to the power of suggestion. I have actually heard a charismatic Priest tell someone who could not speak in tongues that she just wasn’t trying hard enough to receive the gift and that she really had to work at it. Amazingly enough in just a few seconds the woman was babbling along with the others:thumbsup:

Given that I have to be very very skeptical of the entire movement which seems to a great deal rely on these types of pressure tactics to get those not yet baptized with the Holy Spirit to be so blessed. ou know to be part of the crowd. Not to be different. To be special like they are.

 

[palmas85]

Palma,

What is so funny about my post? Would you rather the teens not come back to church and not caring about their faith? I am responding from a first hand experience.

Coming from a parish which had a very well populated and attended Lifeteen experience I think I can speak with some degree of knowledge. I don’t think that my parish was unique either.

First, in order to get confirmed, the kids had to be in Lifeteen. Period. It was a requirement and if they were not they could not get confirmed in the parish.

Second the parish school required service hours from all of the kids at the school. All of the service hours requirements included attending Lifenight and Teen Life Masses. No exceptions whatsoever. It made for grat attendance it really did. Almost a captive audience you might say:thumbsup:

To the kids it was more of a social thing than anything else. They looked at it as a fairly safe way to meet and hook up, which I guess all in all isn’t a real bad thing, but I never really thought that Mass was a dating zone. The music wasn’t too bad all things considered but in al honesty the band that played probably wouldn’t have been allowed to play anywhere else so it did give them a chance to practice a bit. The Priest who conducted these Masses was a big fan off as he called it the Corona Mass where all of the kids encircle the altar hold hands, hug and kiss and cry during the consecration. The communlal distribution of communion too was nice since everyone apparently was an extraordinary minister and communed everyone else and themselves. The older guy, about 35 or so I guess who ran the program loved being around the kids, especially the young good looking girls. In fact he was often kind of a close personal adviser to them. The lifenights were hilarious in their ineptness and heavyhandedness and even the kids thought the themes pretty infantile and even stupid for lack of a better word.

So when I read the accounts of the pure as the driven snow Lifeteen movement, all I have to do is remember one parish in San Diego, which I really don’t think was atypical at all.

Thats why I laughed. And you don’t have to bother defending the movement. I know that a lot of you guys will not accept that anything could possibly ever be wrong with your beloved movement.

And that my friend is the other issue. This loyalty to a movement over loyalty to the Church which oh so many seem to have.

 

[liammateer]

the charismatic renewal owes a lot to medgegoji which was condemned by the bishops in that country from the begining. most of what the virgin (if you look at it objectivly)says is not catholic(it gives lip service to the simple minded, which is why there have been so many scandals involving the seerers and the preists in medjegorgoie who are also in conflict with the local bishops at one stage the appirition critisised the local bishop, which the virgin would never do because to chritise the church is to critise christ, the church allowed this because pope jp2 was all for it and benidict too who by their omission to condemn the practice which is heretical and blaspemous.and dangerous to souls(satans very clever) the popes should know beter which makes me wonder if they are heritics themselves although this is not discussed in the church because the pope now seems to be above the church(christ) and untouchable as we have had anti-popes and heritic popes in the past it can happen and i believe is why there are so many errs in the church the root of the problem is the pope himself. sorry but all you have to do is look objectively. as a traditional catholic it makes me weep to know satan now controls the vatican, no wonder the virgin is always crying we really are in the end times

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Are you tryingto imply by this statement that the three Popes you mentioned were members of the charismatic movement? I know that in the past a few have tried to push forth the outright lie that Pope John Paul II was secretely a charismatic and prayed in tongues but of course that is always about fifth hand information from someone who knew someone who heard about it from someone who was there whenit happened.

Or are you trying to say something else? Please enlighten me. Your post seems rather vague.

I am saying that Popes Paul VI and John Paul II were Charismatic. Pope Benedict XVI is Charismatic. This entire issue was covered about 6 - 9 months ago on this same forum with documents posted showing what each had to say. Do some research and go back on this :“Traditional Catholicism” forum. It had close to 1000 posts covering the same issue in full detail. It is all there if you care to find it.

 

[palmas85]

I am saying that Popes Paul VI and John Paul II were Charismatic. Pope Benedict XVI is Charismatic. This entire issue was covered about 6 - 9 months ago on this same forum with documents posted showing what each had to say. Do some research and go back on this :“Traditional Catholicism” forum. It had close to 1000 posts covering the same issue in full detail. It is all there if you care to find it.

That’s a good way not to answer the question, I’ll give you that much.: However, saying that someone is charismatic in no way validates the charismatic movement or even indicates that the person is even involved in the movement. he two are distinctly different things. One can fully manifest the Charisms of the Holy Spirit without ever coming anywhere near the charismatic movement. In fact I would be willing to wager that the overwhelming number of valid manifestations of the Charisms come outside of the movement and always have.

As far as them endorsing the movement they also endorsed the neo cats and we know pretty much what they are.

Good try though.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

That’s a good way not to answer the question, I’ll give you that much.: However, saying that someone is charismatic in no way validates the charismatic movement or even indicates that the person is even involved in the movement. he two are distinctly different things. One can fully manifest the Charisms of the Holy Spirit without ever coming anywhere near the charismatic movement. In fact I would be willing to wager that the overwhelming number of valid manifestations of the Charisms come outside of the movement and always have.

As far as them endorsing the movement they also endorsed the neo cats and we know pretty much what they are.

Good try though.

Palmas,
If I knew how to carry over those posts with the documentation, I would. Unfortunately I am not as adept with a computer as I would like to be or as others are. I do know what I have read, and went to the sites posted on those posts and read them for myself. You can accept this as truth, or you can disregard this as the ravings of an old man. The choice is yours, and does not affect me one way or the other. I am not trying to side step any issue. I do not have the time at present to get involved in the forum as I did in the past due to my wife’s health, which consumes the majority of my time. Just information for you to look for, IF you care to be enlightened and even read what they had to say about the movement. The choice is yours.

 

[palmas85]

Palmas,
If I knew how to carry over those posts with the documentation, I would. Unfortunately I am not as adept with a computer as I would like to be or as others are. I do know what I have read, and went to the sites posted on those posts and read them for myself. You can accept this as truth, or you can disregard this as the ravings of an old man. The choice is yours, and does not affect me one way or the other. I am not trying to side step any issue. I do not have the time at present to get involved in the forum as I did in the past due to my wife’s health, which consumes the majority of my time. Just information for you to look for, IF you care to be enlightened and even read what they had to say about the movement. The choice is yours.

Believe it or not, I have read what they said about the movement. I know exactly what they said about the movment. In fact, I can distill it for you to a very simple phrase.

It is OK for Catholics to be in it.

Basically thats it. Catholics are free to join it or stay away from it as it suits them. It is not contrary to the teachings of the Church. And, I never said it was. I just don’t believe that most of the manifestations of the charisms by its members are genuine. Thats all. And,it should be noted, the Church has never said that I have to accept the validity of them either. In fact, I am to use my own judgement on whether or not to associate with this group or not or even to believe in what they do or not.

None of the Popes you mentioned were ever involved in the movement at any more than an administrative level, none of the Popes you mentioned ever publicallymanifested any of the Charisms that the Charismatics show off so proudly at each and every opportunity and none of the Popes you mentioned ever proclaimed themselves to be Charismatics. True as I pointed out there are those who claim that they know someone who knew somebody who heard a Priest say that on at least one occasion Pope John Paul II prayed in tongues, yet the Charismatic movement itself for some unknown, well actually it is known, rteason, has NEVER made this claim. I do give them credit for that.

All they have ever said is that it is OK to join it if you want to. In statements chock full of flowery Vatican speech to be sure, but in essence that is really all they ever said.