Is the christmas tree evil?

  • Thread starter Thread starter tabcom
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
tabcom said:
**
From where did the first tree worship begin? I believe it began in Gen 2:16.

Genesis 2:16 17 – of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it.

And what was the ‘real power’ that was promised to Eve?

Genesis 3:5
“For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

After spending the past five years not doing Christmas, I believe the tree metaphorically represents the tree in the garden.

When one bows down to accept a gift from the tree, they are doing three things: they want that present with their name on it (lust of the eye). After opening the gift and seeing that they received what they wished for (lust of the flesh), it makes them feel good (pride of life).

1 John 2:15-17

15
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and pride life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
17
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.

I humbly submit this not to enrage, but to testify, as to my personal path to Christ.**
Click to expand...
I gotta tell ya - that’s reaching a long way for something to justify a really weak theological position. You understanding of the verses you quote is shallow at best. Your have No idea about the cultural usage of words like hate and love in John’s cultural milieu. Hint - it ain’t the same as today. He is saying to get your priorities in order, put God first, and reject things that are God’s and man’s enemies. Beauty, love, family, friends, good memories are gifts from God and not our enemies.
 
Sandi said:
I should add that I saw someone make mention of HAGGIS…I don’t know how that made its way into a discussion of Christmas trees but I will aver that HAGGIS truly IS evil.
Click to expand...
I don’t either - haggis is traditionally eaten on Robbie Burns Day, on January 24th - not Christmas.

I’ve never had it (my husband refuses to participate in Robbie Burns Day celebrations), but I’ve eaten things like blood pudding, and other things that I thought would be totally disgusting, and they were just fine, so I suppose haggis probably falls into the same category - if you don’t think about how they make it, it’ll probably taste just like regular meat.
 
jmcrae said:
I don’t either - haggis is traditionally eaten on Robbie Burns Day, on January 24th - not Christmas.

I’ve never had it (my husband refuses to participate in Robbie Burns Day celebrations), but I’ve eaten things like blood pudding, and other things that I thought would be totally disgusting, and they were just fine, so I suppose haggis probably falls into the same category - if you don’t think about how they make it, it’ll probably taste just like regular meat.
Click to expand...
ya gotta try suet pudding - but only if your cholesterol is in single digits. Hmmm. Were I a pagan I would worship the stuff (that is to keep us on topic.)
 
Sandi said:
The tree isn’t evil but sometimes I think my cats are after they’ve knocked it down for the umpteenth time. :rotfl:

I should add that I saw someone make mention of HAGGIS…I don’t know how that made its way into a discussion of Christmas trees but I will aver that HAGGIS truly IS evil.
Click to expand...

Haggis is very good for you, & it tastes marvellous 🙂​

It is also very mysterious, because it is, as every initiate knows, the central meal of the Babylonish Mystery Religion, which, as Scripture tells us, was [encrypted and hidden in bridge]. The Hagios, or Haggith, or “Haj-ish”, is a symbol of [remainder of post sent to Vatican computer in black helicopter for safety] ##
 
Since I’m just an ignorant Okie I had to go and look up Haggis and suet pudding. I see from Wikipedia that Haggis is a “small four-legged Scottish Highland creature”. 😃 👍 Not sure whether I could eat it or not. :hmmm: Pictures look interesting. 😛 The suet pudding I could not eat! Suet is for the birds. 👍 I don’t like animal fat as a rule so most likely would not care for that. I’d probably try a bite just to see.

Hmmm if the Christmas tree is idol worship because it is cut down and decorated than does that mean when we decorate our house for Christmas we are also worshipping it? After all houses are made of wood (cut trees) and most people do decorate them for Christmas.
:hmmm:
 
deb1 said:
Stronger Christians are to be considerate of other Christians weakness. But the weaker Christian is not supposed to control the stronger Christian.
Click to expand...
**
Re: Post #89:

This is a much better analogy for the context of 1Co 10:28 then what I offered. Thank you for submitting it.**
 
quasimodo said:
If I suspected some bonehead thought I was going to take a statue home to worship it . . . I guess I have never met someone so profoundly ignorant.
Click to expand...
Reprinted from earlier post . . . IMHO, if a catholic can quickly dismiss the suggestion that the tree represents pagan idolatry as non-sense; that person would have a difficult time explaining to a non-catholic that the eucharist is nothing more than eating crackers and drinking grape juice.
 
quasimodo said:
Your have No idea about the cultural usage of words like hate and love in John’s cultural milieu.
Click to expand...
**
love - Greek: agape - to regard the “spiritual” welfare of another; specifically in giving them the word (instruction) of God;

love/agape is a “him” manifested in the person of Jesus Christ when he died for his people (Rom. 13:10; I John 4:9,10);

the Biblical definition of love/agape is found in II John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”

There is no word in the New Testament Greek for our word love. We have incorporated several Greek words into our English word “love”. In 20th century America we have confused and misused two of these Greek words: agape and phileo. They are both translated “love” in the New Testament. The word phileo (love) means to be affectionate. Men corrupt the word agape (love) when they quote the Bible and imply that that agape is affection. John said, “God is love (agape)”. Jesus said we are to love (agapeo - verb form of agape) our neighbor and our enemy (Mark 12:31; Matt. 5:44). He was not saying that we are to be affectionate (phileo) to them. He was saying that we are to “God” (agapeo) them, since God is love (agape). We are to give our neighbor and our enemy all that God is --his instruction. When we love (agape) our enemies we feed them the only food that is legal (prescribed) for sheep to consume (the law - instruction in God’s word). The Lord defined legal food for his people when he said to Adam, “You may eat of all the trees of the garden except – (Gen. 2:16,17)”. Love (agape) is feeding on the word of God. We love (agape) others when we fellowship (eating at the Lord’s “spiritual” table) with them, as we instruct in God’s word. If a man does not believe God and read his Bible (understanding instruction himself), he cannot possibly love ( agapeo/agape) his neighbor or his enemy as Christ commanded us to do. To love (agape) does not mean to show affection (phileo) to them, but rather to give them the truth of God’s word. “All the law (nomos - legal food - instruction) is fulfilled (finished or accomplished) in one word – thou shalt love (agapeo - give God’s instruction) thy neighbor (Gal. 5:14).” “Love (agape) worketh no ill (evil) to “his” (agape is the person, God) neighbor: therefore love (agape) is the fulfilling of the law (Rom. 13:10).” God is not affection (phileo). He is instruction in truth. “Thy word (instruction) is truth (John 17:17).” There will be a shortage of love (agape) at the end of time. Jesus said, "because iniquity (unlawful food) shall abound, the love (agape - instruction in the word) of many shall wax cold (Matt. 24:12; Amos 8:11,12).**
 
runandsew;1638084It wasn’t until the people began to worship that bronze serpant that God made them smash it. So this shows me that it is the worship [/quote said:
of idols and images that God forbids.**Yes, I agree.

I’m attempting to suggest, at various degrees of success, within this thread, that the christmas tree today ‘represents’ values that have nothing to do with biblical teachings.

Colossians 2:8 – Beware lest any man spoil (seduce into captivity) you through philosophy (love of mans wisdom) and vain deceit (empty delusion), after the tradition (instruction) of men, after the rudiments (principles) of this world, and not after Christ.

2 Cor. 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

17 “Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,” says the Lord.

"AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN;

And I will welcome you.

18 "And I will be a father to you,

And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,"

Says the Lord Almighty.
**
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately,the christmas tree is nothing more than a pagan celebration incorporated by the catholic church to celebrate the winter solstice, we must remember that constantine was an avid SUN WORSHIPPER even until his supposed “conversion”, and it is expected for the worshippers of the sun god to celebrate this event since this is supposedly where the sun god is born. Unfortunately this has been carried into christianity and the pagan names have been changes into christian ones…
 
tabcom seems to be struggling with purity issues – purity of faith. The Christmas tree seems to be a stumbling block for his scrupulous soul, something he believes may cause the unwary to turn their attention from God.

Well, He’s right. When we let the hoopla and hysteria of a commercialized Christmas season overtake the simplicity of it’s holy message, we do participate in a kind of idolatry, as others have observed on this thread.

The idolatry of things – as in primitive tree worship – is hardly a problem for anybody in the industrialized world: I know Hindus who do not by any stretch of the imagaination “worship” their statues of Krishna or Ganesha. These things are just what images are for Christians: reminders of the “person” – if one may use such a word for Hindu gods.

Tab just seems to have literalized this passage from Jeremiah, which was written for a time when people actually did confuse their hand-made idol with the thing it represented. The Hebrews were forbidden any kind of image because the invisible God could not in any way be represented without demeaning his honor.

Enter Christianity. God now becomes MATTER. Even though the Israelites used material things (water, bread, wine, etc) as signs of various aspects of their faith, Christians now appropriate the material world in a much higher way. We now look at the material world entirely through the lens of the Creator’s eye. When we see an evergreen tree, we see the life of Christ which remains green throughout the dark season of winter when the earth is sleeping in its seasonal death. The eye of the Christian sees Christ in every work of the Creator’s hand.

In the words of St. John of Damascus: I do not worship matter; I worship the God who became matter for my sake.

Tabcom seems to be stuck in a pre-Christian view of this. He sees the tree only as a symbol of the fall. He has not yet moved forward to seeing it also as a symbol of the Cross and of Christ.
 
tabcom said:
Reprinted from earlier post . . . IMHO, if a catholic can quickly dismiss the suggestion that the tree represents pagan idolatry as non-sense; that person would have a difficult time explaining to a non-catholic that the eucharist is nothing more than eating crackers and drinking grape juice.
Click to expand...
There is a difference betweeen the Eucharist and between a Christmas tree. Christ instituted the Eucharist, and instituted the Real Presence of Himself in the Eucharist. Humans cannot change the meaning of the Eucharist, because humans did not create it; God did. However, a Christmas tree is a human custom, and therefore, humans can decide what meaning, if any, an evergreen tree has.
As another poster said, we are to avoid superstition, and to fear evergreen trees because they used to represent pagan gods seems to me to be very superstitious. It also places humans at the mercy of God’s creation, when God made it clear to Adam that the reverse is true.
 
tabcom said:
Reprinted from earlier post . . . IMHO, if a catholic can quickly dismiss the suggestion that the tree represents pagan idolatry as non-sense; that person would have a difficult time explaining to a non-catholic that the eucharist is nothing more than eating crackers and drinking grape juice.
Click to expand...
I think that you are miswording your post. DO you mean to say that a Catholic would have trouble explaining to a nonCatholic that the Eucharist is more then eating crackers and drinking Grape juice?

A Christmas tree is an evergreen, which because it never sheds it needles stands for everlasting life.

The trees that the pagan used were probably not even pine trees, so the symbolism should be different.

Yes, symbolism is important but we humans get to decide what the particular items symbolism is.

After reading through your posts Tabcom, I think that for you personally, getting rid of a Christmas tree was the right decision. Am I right in that, for you, it began to represent a sin that you were struggling with? Not the worship of the tree but the worship of our materialistic culture?

I believe that understanding one’s individual weakness is very wise and a step toward maturity in Christ. But you can’t suppose that because a certain item affects you personally in a negative way that it affects everyone in the same manner.
 
mercygate said:
tabcom seems to be struggling with purity issues – purity of faith. The Christmas tree seems to be a stumbling block for his scrupulous soul, something he believes may cause the unwary to turn their attention from God.

Well, He’s right. When we let the hoopla and hysteria of a commercialized Christmas season overtake the simplicity of it’s holy message, we do participate in a kind of idolatry, as others have observed on this thread.

The idolatry of things – as in primitive tree worship – is hardly a problem for anybody in the industrialized world: I know Hindus who do not by any stretch of the imagaination “worship” their statues of Krishna or Ganesha. These things are just what images are for Christians: reminders of the “person” – if one may use such a word for Hindu gods.

Tab just seems to have literalized this passage from Jeremiah, which was written for a time when people actually did confuse their hand-made idol with the thing it represented. The Hebrews were forbidden any kind of image because the invisible God could not in any way be represented without demeaning his honor.

Enter Christianity. God now becomes MATTER. Even though the Israelites used material things (water, bread, wine, etc) as signs of various aspects of their faith, Christians now appropriate the material world in a much higher way. We now look at the material world entirely through the lens of the Creator’s eye. When we see an evergreen tree, we see the life of Christ which remains green throughout the dark season of winter when the earth is sleeping in its seasonal death. The eye of the Christian sees Christ in every work of the Creator’s hand.

In the words of St. John of Damascus: I do not worship matter; I worship the God who became matter for my sake.

Tabcom seems to be stuck in a pre-Christian view of this. He sees the tree only as a symbol of the fall. He has not yet moved forward to seeing it also as a symbol of the Cross and of Christ.
Click to expand...
This bears repeating.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
Personally, I think Tab’s worried Christmas trees are evil because Pagans of long ago used to decorate a tree for Winter Solstice. Regardless of who did what, Christmas trees are not evil.

How could anyone think that when stores carry those cute angels you put atop the tree? Every Christmas, I put up what I call the “Tiny Tree” [its only a foot tall] and plug the fiber-optic lights into the electrical socket and watch the warm glowies while I set up the nativity scene next to the tree. That way, baby Jesus won’t get himself snowed on. It works great for such a small space. Gifts can’t be put under such a tiny tree, but are put aside until they are opened. The gifts aren’t much since we’re poor, but are still very much treasured.

And of course, at Mass, the Church has this huge Christmas tree near the altar! Very pretty and has electrical candles on each branch.
 
Perhaps Tab would be more comfortable with a Jesse Tree? all its decoration have religious symbolism.
 
tabcom said:
Ask the witch’s on the internet what they think about christmas.
Click to expand...
If they choose to pervert the goodness of God’s creation, why should Christians - who know (or should know!) that all matter is good and meant to glorify God - be afraid to decorate a tree as one means of remembering the birth of Our Savior?! All this reminds of of St. Teresa of Jesus who stated that she was more afraid of people who feared the devil than the devil himself!

The fact that some still worship creatures rather than their Creator or put creatures in service of false gods, does not mean that these (e.g., a tree) cannot be redeemed and put to the use for which they were created - ultimately to the glory of God. Shall Christians allow non-believers to stop the submission of all things Him?!

In Ephesians 1:10 we read: “. . .to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth,” (RSV). Here and elsewhere in Scripture we see that all of creation is to be gathered into submission to Christ - ALL of creation. The Church is the means by which this gathering-in is accomplished, redeeming and sanctifying in Christ that which has been corrupted - including time, places, and things. A timid Christian cannot aid in this accomplishment.
 
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my original post.
mercygate said:
tabcom seems to be struggling with purity issues – purity of faith. The Christmas tree seems to be a stumbling block for his scrupulous soul, something he believes may cause the unwary to turn their attention from God.
Click to expand...
Well, stated.👍
mercygate said:
Tab just seems to have literalized this passage from Jeremiah . . . Tabcom seems to be stuck in a pre-Christian view of this. He sees the tree only as a symbol of the fall.
Click to expand...
**This is as good a point as any to discuss an issue that I had planned to from the begining. That is, the old pagan dieties are not gone at all. They have reshaped themselves into new and much powerful forms. Jeremiah lived right before Israel was carried into captivity in 586 BC. Pagan worship did not end with him. Paul was constantly teaching baby believers not to be sudducced by pagan gods in their various forms (That came after Christ).

2 Cor 11:3
But I (Paul) am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity {of devotion} to Christ.

John writes in Re 20:2 -
And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan

Is not this the same serpent from Genesis? If so, and it is, John is describing a future event at the end of time.

There is much more to discuss on the subject that pagan idolatry is still here today. . . . to be continued . . . **
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top