Is the christmas tree evil?

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I always buy a big Christmas tree each year. It costs me near $200 and it gives me a rash because of my allergies, so yeah, I would say that they are evil…but then I always cover it and throw it up on the hill and burn it in the spring. It goes up like, well, a Christmas tree! And that’s a lot of fun.

Seriously though, the Christmas Tree is just a symbol of the season, and when looked upon in the right light it can’t be evil, because it is a creation of God that serves to remind us of Christ…

O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me!
For every year the Christmas tree,
Brings to us all both joy and glee.

O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me!

O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Thy candles shine out brightly!

O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Thy candles shine out brightly!
Each bough doth hold its tiny light,
That makes each toy to sparkle bright.

O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Thy candles shine out brightly!

…thanks for letting me have fun with this!
 
Well, my cat certainly thinks that the Christmas tree is evil…
 
Although I don’t believe the OP’s assertions regarding Christmas to be the product of a rational mind, he does have a point. I’m not quite sure why the celebration of Christmas should involve the giving of wholly unnecessary gifts to friends and family that in most cases live well above the poverty line.

The celebration of Christmas should be set aside from such materialism. Christmas is exclusively a spiritual event.
 
SpaceGirl said:
I agree, it (christmas tree) is a symbol. For me it is a symbol of family tradition and good times.
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**Yes, but is family tradition of God? Jesus said to them . . . (Mat 19:29) “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.”

Regarding ‘good times’; the Book of Ecclesiastes has much to say regarding the worthlessness of such pursuits.**
 
Church_Militant said:
To him, it symbolizes all the things he condemns . . It seems like he has problems with materialism and has attached it all to the symbol (in his mind) of the Christmas tree.
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IMHO, you are dismissing the topic as an isolated incident of an individual person. That would be an incorrect assumption on your part. As I stated much earlier, the accussation that the christmas tree is pagan and should be avoided is held by many protestants throughout the centuries. And has been used to charge that the Church is anti-Christ.
Church_Militant said:
Since no one I have ever met worships their Christmas tree as a god,
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**
Your anecdotal evidence not withstanding, a simple google search of paganism AND christmas tree will provide a sea of evidence to the contrary.**
Church_Militant said:
and since the New Testament says that we should not allow anyone to put us under a legalism like he seems to wish us to embrace, the scripturally informed person will wisely say, “no thank you.” and walk away.
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If you would be so kind as to cite from the Christian Bible were legalism applies to practicing pagan rites, I’d be most interested in studying it for myself.
Church_Militant said:
Tabcom, if you come across a real issue that you open a thread on, maybe people will engage you in a discussion or debate concerning it
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** It appears to me that you have not taken enough time to carefully read each post within this thread. There has been much to debate. I feel that deb1 and others has provided much insight regarding this issue within the thread. There has been over 1000 people lurking onto this thread as of now. Are you suggesting that 999 of them feel the same way you do?**
 
tabcom said:
**I’m afraid you are looking at my simple analogy through the wrong lens. From a Methodists point-of-view, the Euchrist is nothing more than crackers and grape juice. **
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:nope: Not true!! We Methodists believe in the:yup: Real Presence. (Though we define it differently than our Catholic brethren).
I think you may have us :hmmm: mixed up with :eek:Baptists…which I’m sure, from my personal knowledge of Baptists, has their 😉 knickers in a:eek: fine old twist. With a :bigyikes: vengeance.
valient_Lucy said:
Well, my cat certainly thinks that the Christmas tree is evil…
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My cat just thinks that it’s :rotfl: hers…
 
YES ! those pine needles are sent by God to attack us, like the plague of locus, they can be trying getting them out of the carpet.:eek:
 
**Now that this thread has reached over 1100 viewers, and gone in several directions, I’d thought I’d get back on topic. That is, is the christmas tree evil? Is not the tree worship in Jer. 10 and 1 Kings 16 symbolic of the tree that is erected in churches and homes today?

Jeremiah 10:2-5 - Learn not the way of the heathen – for the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. – They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not.-- They are upright as the palm tree –
Code: 
* upright - Hebrew: Miqsah - rounded work; curls and stresses moulded by hammering
I Kings 16:33 – And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.
Code: 
* grove - Hebrew: asherah - Astarte; Phoenician (Sidonian) goddess; upright or straight; a tree
also . . .

Leviticus 18:21, 24, 30 – Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Moloch ( sun - god ) – Defile not yourselves in “any of these things” – Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not “anyone of these abominable customs” – and that ye defile not yourselves therein.

Deuteonomy 12:30, 32 – (speaking of the heathen sun and moon worship) Take heed – inquire not of their gods – What thing soever I command you observe and do it “thall shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it.”

Colossians 2:8 – Beware lest any man spoil (seduce into captivity) you through philosophy (love of mans wisdom) and vain deceit (empty delusion), after the tradition (instruction) of men, after the rudiments (principles) of this world, and not after Christ
**
 
tabcom said:
Now that this thread has reached over 1100 viewers, and gone in several directions, I’d thought I’d get back on topic. That is, is the christmas tree evil? Is not the tree worship in Jer. 10 and 1 Kings 16 symbolic of the tree that is erected in churches and homes today?

Jeremiah 10:2-5 - Learn not the way of the heathen – for the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. – They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not.-- They are upright as the palm tree –

*** upright - Hebrew: Miqsah - rounded work; curls and stresses moulded by hammering**

I Kings 16:33 – And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.

*** grove - Hebrew: asherah - Astarte; Phoenician (Sidonian) goddess; upright or straight; a tree**

**also . . . **

Leviticus 18:21, 24, 30 – Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Moloch ( sun - god ) – Defile not yourselves in “any of these things” – Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not “anyone of these abominable customs” – and that ye defile not yourselves therein.

Deuteonomy 12:30, 32 – (speaking of the heathen sun and moon worship) Take heed – inquire not of their gods – What thing soever I command you observe and do it "thall shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it."

Colossians 2:8 – Beware lest any man spoil (seduce into captivity) you through philosophy (love of mans wisdom) and vain deceit (empty delusion), after the tradition (instruction) of men, after the rudiments (principles) of this world, and not after Christ
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Are you married? Do you, or does your spouse, wear a wedding ring?
 
tabcom said:
Now that this thread has reached over 1100 viewers, and gone in several directions, I’d thought I’d get back on topic. That is, is the christmas tree evil? Is not the tree worship in Jer. 10 and 1 Kings 16 symbolic of the tree that is erected in churches and homes today?. . .
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No, as has been explained to you ad infinitum. It is your own scrupulosity (and your incomprehension regarding the goodness of all that God has created), not the Christmas tree, that holds you in thrall.
 
tabcom said:
IMHO, you are dismissing the topic as an isolated incident of an individual person. That would be an incorrect assumption on your part. As I stated much earlier, the accussation that the christmas tree is pagan and should be avoided is held by many protestants throughout the centuries. And has been used to charge that the Church is anti-Christ.
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I don’t really care what protestants use to attack our most holy faith, since most them will seek out any minimal similarity to bash the faith. They have all been wrong since the invention of Sola Scriptura.
Your anecdotal evidence not withstanding, a simple google search of paganism AND christmas tree will provide a sea of evidence to the contrary.
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So what? This is the error of assuming that because two things are similar that they have the same source. Jack Chick, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and many other anti-Catholics make the very same error about “Babylonian” connections. It’s garbage.
If you would be so kind as to cite from the Christian Bible were legalism applies to practicing pagan rites, I’d be most interested in studying it for myself.
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I don’t have to since there is no practice of pagan rites involved in my religion or in my celebration of Christmas.
It appears to me that you have not taken enough time to carefully read each post within this thread. There has been much to debate. I feel that deb1 and others has provided much insight regarding this issue within the thread. There has been over 1000 people lurking onto this thread as of now. Are you suggesting that 999 of them feel the same way you do?
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As a matter of fact I would make that suggestion. Moreover, that is not 1000 different lurkers but guys like me and the Mods checking to see what is going on. If you wanted stats, you should have added a poll when you opened the thread and you’d see what I mean.

Actually, as I said, I have monitored this thread daily and the only reason that I have not posted more on it is because I see no reason to simply reiterate what other posters have already stated as well as I could have.

You’re overly scrupulous and your case is weak and based on out of context proof texting and the error that because to things are similar they have the same source. Even if the Christmas tree did have it’s origins in paganism (but not conceding this at all since it’s not true, especially here in the U.S.), the fact that today (because of the active and living faith of Christians!), it is part of the celebration of the birth of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, which definitely complies with the words of St. Paul who says that we are to “take every thought captive in obedience to Christ,”

You are certainly free to believe as you please, but your case is very badly flawed and I reject it based on what I have said here.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Come to think of it, pagans had families, too. Before Christians did, I mean.

If we reject EVERYTHING which ‘pagans did’, we would have no families, agriculture, domesticated animals, houses, jobs, literature. . .heck we wouldn’t even have fire, let alone Christmas trees!! And it’s no use for example to say that we only have to exclude so-called “religious” rites, because pagans did not practice their religion for one hour once a week, or ‘exclusively’ at some oak tree, etc.
 
Jeremiah 10:2-5 - Learn not the way of the heathen – for the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. – They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not.-- They are upright as the palm tree –
  • upright - Hebrew: Miqsah - rounded work; curls and stresses moulded by hammering
I Kings 16:33 – And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.
  • grove - Hebrew: asherah - Astarte; Phoenician (Sidonian) goddess; upright or straight; a tree
    -quote from tabcom
Perhaps you need a small history lesson here to understand. There was a Cannanite/Babylonian (not sure which one) named El. Now El is also a title used for the God of the Israelites, thus we get the names Isra-El, Micha-El, etc. El means God. But in the Cannanite/Babylonian myths, the god El had a wife, a consort, and her name was Astarte/Ishtar. She was typically worshiped or signified by a tree or a grove of trees.

Now I would say the admonisions on tree worship are not simply because they were idols, but because they were confusing El the God of Israel, with El the god of the pagans. Wouldn’t you agree that saying Jesus the Messiah did the same things as some other Joshua from history would be wrong, and should be admonished.

Now that is a great simplification of the myths, and the stories, but it seems to me that this is why tree worship is admonished, symbols can change over time.

A lone Raven

p.s.- In other words, the tree worship of Jeremiah and Kings in the Bible is very different than the Christmas tree
 
Church_Militant said:
Moreover, that is not 1000 different lurkers but guys like me and the Mods checking to see what is going on.
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**A simple test would prove that this statement is false.

Indeed, I could prove to you that those 1100 + views are unique hits, not repeat viewings from just a few repeat posters. However, due to your militant tone within this thread, proving you wrong and having you show humility for your mistake would be more than I could expect.Therefore, what’s the point.**
 
tabcom said:
A simple test would prove that this statement is false.

Indeed, I could prove to you that those 1100 + views are unique hits, not repeat viewings from just a few repeat posters.
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Then do so…By all means prove it, because I don’t think you can. Please…show me that I’m wrong.
However, due to your militant tone within this thread, proving you wrong and having you show humility for your mistake would be more than I could expect.Therefore, what’s the point.
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Did you just plan to be dismissive and insulting to me?
That’s not demonstrating Christian charity.

It may help if you had some idea of what my username, Church Militant, actually means.

Then, as to my humility concerning any “mistake” I have made in my discussion on this topic, you would have to first show me that I have made such a mistake, which you have not done. Instead you seem to have resorted to an attempt to disparage my character and then plainly refused to answer my posts with facts.

Let’s look at some exemplary facts here.
  1. You say that your lurkers are all different people. I say they are not. Look at this thread of mine with a poll. Over 1500 hits, but less than 10% responding in posts and only slightly over 10% answering the poll. Many of the hits are me checking to see what is going on and several posts are my own and there are a couple of other people who have postsed more than once, though not many, which is perfectly fine.
The point is that there is no way that I could accurately assert what you have based even upon the stats displayed and so, (as I have pointed out), your reasoning is fallacious on that point.

You have made your case based on a passage of OT scripture that has nothing whatever to do with the Christmas tree except in your own mind, and I (and others) have charitably pointed out that that is fine so far as it goes, since it is your personal conviction, but I have also pointed out that your reasoning and conclusions concerning a possible pagan connection with Catholic celebrations of Christmas is also based fallacious reasoning in that you presume that two similar things (the use of trees) have a common origin, and that is not true in this case, and you have not (so far) proved any such connection.

BTW, I am curious about a question someone farther up has asked and you have not answered: Do you or your wife wear a wedding ring?

Now…if I am wrong, please enlighten me and I’ll respond accordingly, but if I’m not then I suspect that you might owe me an apology which will be readily accepted.
Pax tecum,
 
Tantum_ergo said:
If we reject EVERYTHING which ‘pagans did’, we would have no . . .
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**It is not a matter of what pagans do (present tense inserted by me) that is evil, it is a matter of participating in something that would cause a fellow believer to stumble in their faith.

That is what Paul was describing in 1 Cor. 10th Chapter, when he speaks of eating meat offered to idols. In otherwords, yes, the tree is a creation of God and is good (Ge 1:12). But the tree can also represent materialism or melancholy feelings of the past (both of which have been submitted by other posters than myself within this thread), these symbols are not spiritual in nature. Are childred really honoring Jesus when they reach under the tree to accept a present with their name on it? According to 1Co 2:14 they do not.

This may come as a suprise to most cathoics, but there are two Jesus’ in the bible. Also, there are only two doctrines, the doctrine of death to self (Luke 9:23) and the doctrine of fulfill self (1 John 2:15-17).

What Paul was talking about in 1 Cor. 10 is that if something takes on the appearence of evil, although God made all things for the good, then a believer should refrain from participating in the ritual for the sake of a baby believer for whom may stumble.**
 
**Church Militant . . . .

Conduct this simple test.
  1. Click the Apologetics link to the forum.
  2. Write down the number of Views in the right column to ‘Is the christmas tree evil?’ thread.
  3. Click the ‘Is the christmas tree evil?’ thread.
  4. Click the back arrow on your browser.
  5. Click the refresh button on your browser.
  6. Look at the number of views that were recorded for the thread before you entered the thread and compare it to the number of views on the thread now.
The Views counter does not change.

Why is that? Your computer has a unique address assigned to it that you can’s see. It is known as the IP address. It is like your mailing address. The forum only increments the views counter one time per unique IP address. Not one time per visit by the user.**
 
tabcom said:
**Church Militant . . . .

Conduct this simple test.
  1. Click the Apologetics link to the forum.
  2. Write down the number of Views in the right column to ‘Is the christmas tree evil?’ thread.
  3. Click the ‘Is the christmas tree evil?’ thread.
  4. Click the back arrow on your browser.
  5. Click the refresh button on your browser.
  6. Look at the number of views that were recorded for the thread before you entered the thread and compare it to the number of views on the thread now.
The Views counter does not change.

Why is that? Your computer has a unique address assigned to it that you can’s see. It is known as the IP address. It is like your mailing address. The forum only increments the views counter one time per unique IP address. Not one time per visit by the user.**
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I’m well familair with the IP adresses, but this does not mean what you purport it to.

Now about the other refutations of your postings?
Pax tecum,
 
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