Is the christmas tree evil?

[LilyM]

Once again, I say I will lean on what God’s word is, not some goddess or Caesar or man’s reasoning.
*The scripture says *“do not learn the ways of the heathen”, it’s not that hard to understand. I will obey God.
My family places gifts under a Nativity scene.

GRAVEN IMAGES! The bible doesn’t allow any exceptions for Nativity scenes that I’m aware of, now does it? Or are you going to be finding your own loopholes now?

 

[jmcrae]

GRAVEN IMAGES! The bible doesn’t allow any exceptions for Nativity scenes that I’m aware of, now does it? Or are you going to be finding your own loopholes now?

Better hope that “Baby Jesus” (a “graven likeness of God” if ever there was one, by the way) isn’t lying in a wooden manger, cos that’d be a cut tree, being used as a decoration during the season of the winter solstice. :bigyikes:

 

[Eden]

I see that you were unable to provide the book, chapter and verse where the scriptures tell us not to give gifts. I didn’t think it was in there, so you are conceding that you were wrong, progress.

Although I disagree with tabcom that the tree is evil, at least that poster is willing to give up the gifts that go under it as well. You stated that you want to ax the tree but gave an alternative place for everyone to put your gifts. I just found that amusing. I personally see no conflict in Christianity with either gift-giving or tree trimming.

The “church” you speak of is made up of man, please check James 3:2 on this.

Please elaborate. And if you could share the name of your denomination, I can provide the name of the man who made *your *church. I see you put “Catholic” in your profile. God doesn’t work through deception. You might want to think about that.

Mankind has a long history of making mistakes. Seems to me, Jesus was upset with the leaders of the church, you might want to rethink that one. Priests molesting little boys…well, do we really need to go there?

Unfortunately for the victims of abuse, the percentage of men who are grandfathers, step-fathers, boyfriends or neighbors who molest children are higher than the percentage of abusive priests. And no, we don’t have to “go there” but apparently you felt desperate enough to do so.

Please provide the book, chapter and verse where “engraving an image” takes place. As I’ve pointed out before, there is a paragraph mark at the end of verse five, after that, the topic goes on to other idols and customs.

Please take a deep breath and pump the breaks. Let’s just walk through this together, O.K.?

Jeremiah 10:3-5

3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good."

www.biblegateway.com

Clearly this is not describing a Christmas tree or even just an evergreen tree. The craftsman cuts down a tree, chisels it into the figure of a person, like a scarecrow, carries it around and the pagans want people to fear and worship this scarecrow-like carved figure. Where is the Christmas tree here?

Even if you don’t think Jeremiah 10:1-5 is describing the Christmas tree, it is still wrong for a Christian to practice the custom.

I don’t know why you believe you have the authority to make these determinations or why you believe your opinion cancels out mine.

Do a search on “Christmas tree origin”, and you will find web page after web page that admits that the tree is a heathen or pagan custom. Why would a Chritian knowingly practice a heathen custom? (Christ wouldn’t! And we’re to be Christ-like)

There are many pagan symbols that have been converted to Christian use, which in their new meaning pose no threat to Christianity. Do a search on “Ichthys” (also known as the “Jesus fish”) and you will find webpage after webpage that admits the Ichthys was a pagan symbol. Yet I see Christians who stick these images on their cars:



Would you call the image above “raw sewage-covered ice cream”?

 

[Eden]

The only good thing about this whole eternity of posts is that so many people have been fortified in their humble, loving practice of having a Christmas tree, and have become even more aware of the dangers of ‘private interpretation’ of the Bible.

 

[tabcom]

The desecration was the catalyst to the rededication of the Temple. You have failed to prove that a tree had anything to do with it.

The erection of a tree within the temple was one stroke in a list of desecrations commited by the Greeks. For the sake of much needed brevity within this thread, I pasted select verses from 1 Maccabees 1. I encourage all to read the Book for themselves.

Even if you did, what would be proved? It would have nothing to do with the Christmas tree.

adrift . . because of your contentiousness within this thread, I fail to see the value in trying to prove anything to you. But I’ll try . . . . see below.

You are claiming to know what is in each and every one of our hearts!

**Psalms 39:5
verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity.

Rom 3:10-12 There is none righteous, no, not one - there is none that seeketh after God - there is none good, no, not one.
**

Covetousness = Idolatry no they are not synonymous. Since wanting more does not equate to covetousness and covetousness does not equal idolatry, your conclusion is erroneous.

**

Let me make this as simple as possible . . .

Eph 5:5 . . . covetous man, who is an idolater

Col 3:5 . . . covetousness, which is idolatry:

Covetousness = Idolatry

covetousness- greek: pleonektes- to want more; greediness

Idolatry = wanting more**

What do you mean by saying people bow down before a Christmas tree that hands them gifts which they look on with sexual desire?

**After repeated attempts to point out the metaphorical representation of the tree within this thread, I’m afraid you just cannot get beyond the literal. **

“Lust is little more than extreme sexual arousal.”

**Thank you for citing en.wikipedia.org; I use it often myself. Regarding the meaning of lust, I prefer citing the Holy Scriptures:

1 John 2: 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.

James 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

∑ Lust - Greek: epithumia – It is a composite of epi; which means to super impose and thumia; which means to heat up. It can be described as when one breaths heavy, their body temperture rises, because they are overwhelmed with desire. This desire is not restricted to sex alone.

And since you mentioned pride . . .

Peter and James say,

James 4:6 (1 Pet 5:5) God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble.

The word resisteth is the Greek word: “antitassomai” - meaning to set oneself to wage war against.

The word proud in this text is the Greek word huperephanos - appearing above, conspicuous, haughty. This word comes from:

* huper - above
* phaino - lighten, shine, appear

God will make war with those who love to shine above others. America is saturated with this desire to shine and appear above others with desiring more and better cars, houses, things, lands, stuff, etc. Even the so called evangelical Christians believe this is an acceptable life style. There is no call for the daily cross (Luke 9:23). You will have a very difficult time finding a church in America that will preach the daily cross on christmas. **

 

[Lion]

Does anyone else think it is time to agree to disagree and end this thread? (actually I just wanted to be #440 )

 

[LilyM]

Does anyone else think it is time to agree to disagree and end this thread? (actually I just wanted to be #440 )

I don’t think we’re progressing anywhere in this debate, and yes, the thread probably should be ended.

 

[Eden]

Again, I believe your description of what happens on Christmas morning is rather perverse and in no way reflective of the actual warm and loving experience of a family joyfully opening presents together.

**

After repeated attempts to point out the metaphorical representation of the tree within this thread, I’m afraid you just cannot get beyond the literal. **

You are correct. Your metaphor failed.

Lust

Greed? Maybe. Lust? No.

By the way, did you know that both your thread topic, your rebellion against traditional Christmas customs and your use of blue font color are all indications that you seek attention?
While I see you are very aware of the sins of others, I thought you might not recognize your own pride and presumption.

 

[Eden]

I don’t think we’re progressing anywhere in this debate, and yes, the thread probably should be ended.

Oh, the debate’s over? O.K.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thanks to all who participated.
This thread is now closed.