Is the Church really hording wealth?

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iamme said:
you can only find a “gotcha” if youre not already right. if i wanted to play games, i would make it apparent, so as to make the victim of said gameplaying look all the more dumb. i was simply talking, and saying that a museum goes far beyond whatever exhibitions the vatican does, and im right, they do, and they always will.

gotcha!
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This is laughable. Earlier in the thread you were aski g questions about the Vatican. Now you’ve gone to definitively speaking on and declaring Vatican practices. What’s your source? This should be interesting since I have first hand knowledge you are wrong.
 
iamme said:
you can only find a “gotcha” if youre not already right. if i wanted to play games, i would make it apparent, so as to make the victim of said gameplaying look all the more dumb. i was simply talking, and saying that a museum goes far beyond whatever exhibitions the vatican does, and im right, they do, and they always will.

gotcha!
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iamme said:
so all i have to do to see a vatican promoted exhibit is go to rome?
well shucks, im on my way!

it is clear you simply have no common sense in how the world works.
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What on earth are you talking about? You mean all I have to do to see the mona lisa is fly to Paris? Yet I don’t hear you criticizing the louvre. There is no logical argument to be made once you have agreed secular museums are good. This is just an irrational, angry rant against the churc. No problem. She can handle it. She’s weathered much more well thought issues than the one you’re presenting.
 
iamme said:
no problem! when someones as condescending as you, misunderstandings abound! im sure its par for course.
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Wow. You are the epitome of humility and nonjudgmentalness. The guy apologizes and you insult him. Just one more piece of evidence that without our god the world would be a wretched place.
 
iamme said:
isnt watching that a mortal sin?
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Venial, I’d say.
Rock of Love Bus with Bret Michaels, now that’s another matter.
Fortunately, watching both of those shows are their own penance. 😃
 
iamme said:
i dont know the financial status of the church, but from what i see from the vatican, it most certainly isnt a humble organization.
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Neither is Congress, or the Federal Government, or the UN, or (fill in the blank)__________________ and neither us UNESCO.

The difference between the Vatican and the others listed above… is that the money spent to build St. Peters and the Vatican…was money that was willingly donated, and yes…some was derived from the selling of indulgences by Tetzel…but the fact is…the monies spent were “given” freely by the people, unlike tax monies that are “collected” whether you want to pay them or not…to the governments that assess them.
 
RobHom said:
Neither is Congress, or the Federal Government, or the UN, or (fill in the blank)__________________ and neither us UNESCO.

The difference between the Vatican and the others listed above… is that the money spent to build St. Peters and the Vatican…was money that was willingly donated, and yes…some was derived from the selling of indulgences by Tetzel…but the fact is…the monies spent were “given” freely by the people, unlike tax monies that are “collected” whether you want to pay them or not…to the governments that assess them.
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but none of the organizations listed above are charged to be humble, are they?
 
iamme said:
well, i was mainly thinking in their yearly finance report, if the charity money they get, yknow, money and things given to the vatican, is listed seperately, or is it part of the , im trying to think of the word, bottom line?
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If you were going to do that…you would have to do a comparative analysis of every religious denomination on the planet… Then maybe you would have something to base your “hypothesis” on.

But what is really curious, is if there is a “bottom line”…who benefits from it? There are no “shareholders” who get income from their “investments” as there are no investors per se…therefore there are no payouts, no dividends…in actual money.

I have given money to the Catholic Church, and frankly, if my wife passes before me…what is left will most likely go to the Church.
I will earmark it for where I wish it to be used…but I will give it to the Church…if they believe there is a more pressing need, then so be it.

You can throw rocks at the Church…but if you really feel the need to do so, then perhaps you might also accept that you have the need to really know and understand that which you consider your target or enemy…because all decent tacticians know that not knowing your enemy is certain failure.

Let me help you educate yourself…here are some places where the money goes:

My favorite charity: svdpusa.org/ Its a Catholic organization…but dispenses all that it does without regard to race, creed, or denomination.

catholiccharitiesusa.org/NetCommunity /Page.aspx?pid=1174 Like St. Vincent DePaul, they are all over the nation.

chausa.org/Pub/MainNav/ourcommitments/Mission/ One of America’s largest Health Care organizations…that renders service to all, regardless of financial status.

I could go on and on…but as you can see, there is far more to “Catholicism” and “Catholics” than the Vatican…🙂

So where’s the problem?
 
RobHom said:
If you were going to do that…you would have to do a comparative analysis of every religious denomination on the planet… Then maybe you would have something to base your “hypothesis” on.

I could go on and on…but as you can see, there is far more to “Catholicism” and “Catholics” than the Vatican…🙂

So where’s the problem?
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  1. i dont have a problem, i didnt start the thread, im merely participating in it. i also dont have a problem with a concept (the church) tho i can see myself having problems with people in it, as i can have problems with people who have nothing to do with the catholic church. i dont understand the victim stance you seem to be taking.
  2. getting a comparative analysis would be pointless, because i dont know of any other religion that has a central base of operation that regulates the traditions and rules that each of the smaller congregations have to follow. if you could point me to the main headquarters for judaism or islam, or the like, then im sure id have the same questions about their practices, if they came out to address the public adorned in gold crosses, ruby rings and robes, with goblets encrusted with jewels.
 
iamme said:
but none of the organizations listed above are charged to be humble, are they?
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Define “humble”…

But what I think you misunderstand…is that “humility” is not something portrayed in a building that was paid for by those giving funds to build the main church of the Catholic Church… and considering how it (St. Peter’s) was built back in the 4th Century by the Emperor Constantine… I’m not really sure that Constantine was too concerned about projecting a humble image when he envisioned the Basilica.

From here: saintpetersbasilica.org/Docs/JLM/SaintPeters-3.htm#church

We shall only be dealing with one of Constantine’s basilicas, and that the greatest in the Christian world. In precisely which year St Peter’s was begun is not known. Certainly not at the beginning of the emperor’s reign. Whereas the endowments for the earlier Lateran basilica came from Italian sources, those for St Peter’s were financed by the eastern provinces which only fell to the emperor in 324. The year 322 has been suggested for the foundation date by Toynbee and Perkins. They believe that Constantine may have anticipated the colonial riches which were shortly to come to him. By his death in 337 at least the structure of St Peter’s was completed.

SO, it is not an issue of the Vatican being humble…since it was the Emperor Constantine who built the Basilica of St. Peter’s…and not the Catholic Church…

Before you pick a “booger” and try to stick it on something …make sure who’s nose you’re picking…😃
 
RobHom said:
Define “humble”…

But what I think you misunderstand…is that “humility” is not something portrayed in a building that was paid for by those giving funds to build the main church of the Catholic Church… and considering how it (St. Peter’s) was built back in the 4th Century by the Emperor Constantine… I’m not really sure that Constantine was too concerned about projecting a humble image when he envisioned the Basilica.

From here: saintpetersbasilica.org/Docs/JLM/SaintPeters-3.htm#church

We shall only be dealing with one of Constantine’s basilicas, and that the greatest in the Christian world. In precisely which year St Peter’s was begun is not known. Certainly not at the beginning of the emperor’s reign. Whereas the endowments for the earlier Lateran basilica came from Italian sources, those for St Peter’s were financed by the eastern provinces which only fell to the emperor in 324. The year 322 has been suggested for the foundation date by Toynbee and Perkins. They believe that Constantine may have anticipated the colonial riches which were shortly to come to him. By his death in 337 at least the structure of St Peter’s was completed.

SO, it is not an issue of the Vatican being humble…since it was the Emperor Constantine who built the Basilica of St. Peter’s…and not the Catholic Church…

Before you pick a “booger” and try to stick it on something …make sure who’s nose you’re picking…😃
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ive not made a single mention of a building. i understand that you cant explain reasonably why the pope, and bishops all dress like liberace, but you dont need to make a non-issue out of something i havent spoken of in order to distract me. its no big deal.
 
iamme said:
  1. i dont have a problem, i didnt start the thread, im merely participating in it. i also dont have a problem with a concept (the church) tho i can see myself having problems with people in it, as i can have problems with people who have nothing to do with the catholic church. i dont understand the victim stance you seem to be taking.
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Good, good and good again. But I have to tell you… I have never been a “victim”…and I refuse to wear victim’s rags and ashes.
Merely educating you…🙂
  1. getting a comparative analysis would be pointless, because i dont know of any other religion that has a central base of operation that regulates the traditions and rules that each of the smaller congregations have to follow. if you could point me to the main headquarters for judaism or islam, or the like, then im sure id have the same questions about their practices, if they came out to address the public adorned in gold crosses, ruby rings and robes, with goblets encrusted with jewels.
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Islam= Saudi Arabia.

Judaism= Israel.

And yes, like Catholics, they are different sects who follow different leadership.

Anglicans look to Canterbury, see the Archbishop of: archbishopofcanterbury.org/

How do you know the crosses are made of gold? How do you know the rings are rubies? How do you know the goblets are encrusted with jewels? Did you have them appraised?

Actually a “comparative analysis” would be helpful for you… It would give you something to ameliorate your hypothesis into something more “meaningful and accurate”.

You haven’t apparently looked behind the booger on your fingertip. You want to play the part of a member of the intelligentsia… but you haven’t done your homework.
 
iamme said:
ive not made a single mention of a building. i understand that you cant explain reasonably why the pope, and bishops all dress like liberace, but you dont need to make a non-issue out of something i havent spoken of in order to distract me. its no big deal.
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You mentioned the Vatican…without you dissecting it down to minutiae…you leave things open to interpretation.

I can explain very reasonably all the Clergy in the Church wear vestments…its “Biblical”.

No one’s trying to distract you…I’m just playing along with you. 😃

Oh, btw…have you ever noticed that the Clergy in many other religions where “vestments”. Can’t say I’ve ever seen any that looked like “Liberace” or even Elvis…though…
 
iamme said:
.
also, misperception isnt a word…
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Uhhh, actually my friend…if you go here:

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misperception

You will find this…

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mis-

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perception

**mis- is the prefix indicating: mis-
Function:
prefix
Etymology:
partly from Middle English, from Old English; partly from Middle English mes-, mis-, from Anglo-French mes-, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English mis-; akin to Old English missan to miss

1 a: badly : wrongly b: unfavorably c: in a suspicious manner 2: bad : wrong 3: opposite or lack of 4: not **

Now if you go to the link for “mis-” and page down a ways you will find that the word “misperception” is a very much a word.🙂
 
Today the Catholic Church is not that wealthy so they can’t actually horde the wealth. Anyway, if anyone thinks the church is wealthy look at my parish church that still has damgage from hurricane gustav. If the church was wealthy wouldn’t it fix one of its limbs?
 
iamme said:
EDIT: just because some like to be children, doesnt mean i will.
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Oh, my, my…how quickly we drop into the pit of “ad hominem”…

Like I said…if you don’t know your facts, don’t make a statement.

Considering that you are 32 years younger than I am…I hardly find it more than amusing that you would say something like that. 😃
 
RobHom said:
Oh, my, my…how quickly we drop into the pit of “ad hominem”…

Like I said…if you don’t know your facts, don’t make a statement.

Considering that you are 32 years younger than I am…I hardly find it more than amusing that you would say something like that. 😃
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i knew you were old.
 
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