Is the Church's position on islam correct?

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hawk

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It is wrong, because in the haste to build bridges, the Church, has allowed a most destructive teaching to be propogated, that Christ did not die.

What do you think?
 
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hawk:
It is wrong, because in the haste to build bridges, the Church, has allowed a most destructive teaching to be propogated, that Christ did not die.

What do you think?
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What are you talking about? Jesus Christ certainly DID die and certainly DID arise from the DEAD which is why there is the Roman Catholic Church etc. etc. why would there be a religion otherwise.
 
Hey Hawk, which teaching specifically are you referring to? I know what the Catechism and Dominus Iesus says and find nothing wrong with those. The truth is that we need to praise the truths of God in everything and everyone we meet, while not bending the truth whatsoever we have been handed down by the deposit of faith. The same goes with the rest of the world…

Nowhere does the church say that we believe, or should believe, or must believe ALL that Islam teaches…it doesn’t even list specifics…

Peace.
Your brother in the Lord Jesus,
Luigi
 
Hi Hawk,

The source documents make it much clearer. Personally I wish they had been more complete in the Catechism…I think it’s a little too abreviated to really understand what they’re saying. Also take a look at #67 in Part One regarding private revelations.
 
Probably Hawk is referring to the CHurch akcnowledgment that muslims hold the faith of Abraham.

But this position doesn’t in any way contradict the Gospel truth. It just say that muslims are also believers of the One God, just like the Jews are believers of the One God–but both reject the Lord Jesus Christ. The only difference is the way they interpret the Gospel message whereby instead of coming to believe in them–they refuse to accept and believe. This is true because of our fallen human nature in general which is not wholly capable of understanding the revelations except with the aid of the Holy Spirit. Often times Jews and Muslims try to scrutinize the Gospel on their own way, not with God’s aid. The result will be to rationalize the Good News.

We Christians cannot even believe the Gospels unless the grace and Spirit of God move us and we are free to accept it. One cannot say “Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.”

Pio
 
Hawk is referring to the Muslim teaching that Jesus did not die. He thinks that the Church’s ‘acceptance’ of Muslims as holding the faith of Abraham, tends to help give credence to this false teaching. And that surely cannot be the intent of the Catechism.
 
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hlgomez:
Probably Hawk is referring to the CHurch akcnowledgment that muslims hold the faith of Abraham.
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Specifically, the Catechism says they profess to hold the faith of Abraham… not that they actually do. I don’t understand why so many have been mislead by this.
 
Hawk is referring to the Muslim teaching that Jesus did not die. He thinks that the Church’s ‘acceptance’ of Muslims as holding the faith of Abraham, tends to help give credence to this false teaching. And that surely cannot be the intent of the Catechism.
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The church never explicitly say that all the words contained in the Quran is true–some of them are though-- like the existence of the One God. The church cannot say this is not true because indeed this is true. It’s the same as in other non-Christian religions who hold some truth in their beliefs and the church has to regard it with respect. It’s wonderful that the Church dialogues with them, just as Christ while on earth talked to non-Jews as well. The attitude of the Church is always that of his Master.

Pio
 
I would say JP II was a key catalyst in Catholic-Islamic relations, at least from the Catholic side. If I recall, he was the first Pope to address a large public Islamic gathering.

JP II said this:
  1. The most important piece of human dignity is freedom
  2. People have the right to make their own choices, even if they are wrong in someone’s opinion.
  3. The Islamic religion does share a belief in a common God, the God of Abraham - there are clearly differences in beliefs as well
  4. Working together to fight the real problems, such as human rights violations, murder, poverty, and more, should be the goal of members of both religions.
makes sense to me…
 
There are many christian minorities in muslim countries.The church has to be careful what it says. Thats why the words of local christian leaders in these countries must be balanced with their situations.
 
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JOHNYJ:
There are many christian minorities in muslim countries.The church has to be careful what it says. Thats why the words of local christian leaders in these countries must be balanced with their situations.
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I agree, it is politics require the use of friendly language.
That said, the RCIA class I was in, the teacher called Islam Mohamedanism and a heresy.
 
Well as a muslim i can see that probably from what i read, the message of the Pope diudnt really mean what it says or had a hidden meaning in it .

Well yr teacher lied to you or either doesnt know.

We never worshipped Muhammed PBUH . Muhammed PBUH is dead . He was human . A mortal . He was a Messanger of God .

So we arent called Muhammedans . As for heresy , well the jews Call you heretic also and lost so i guess its ok .

Peace
 
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meedo:
Well as a muslim i can see that probably from what i read, the message of the Pope diudnt really mean what it says or had a hidden meaning in it .

Well yr teacher lied to you or either doesnt know.

We never worshipped Muhammed PBUH . Muhammed PBUH is dead . He was human . A mortal . He was a Messanger of God .

So we arent called Muhammedans . As for heresy , well the jews Call you heretic also and lost so i guess its ok .

Peace
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No one claims you all worship Muhammed. Muhammedism is another term we refer to Muslims by whether they like it or not. Kind of like how Muslims use the term “kafir” to refer to everybody else, whether they would agree or not.
 
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meedo:
Well as a muslim i can see that probably from what i read, the message of the Pope diudnt really mean what it says or had a hidden meaning in it .
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Meedo,

Pope John Paul II, the documents he approved where some of them Cardinal Ratzinger was in charge of (Dominus Iesus, Catechism) are all were meant in full, with no hidden meaning in it. Don’t let a few catholics that take matter in their own hands sway you of this truth!

The truth is that you Meedo, and all other Muslims, profess to worship the One God, who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That God HAS a plan of salvation for you!!!

We believe that Jesus, who is God, with His elect from His body, the church, will be judging the living and the dead. So that is why we profess that there is no salvation outside Jesus, and there is no salvation outside the church. What this statement DOES NOT mean is that if you die outwardly as a non christian (or non catholic christian) that you won’t be saved…it just means that you will be saved by Jesus and His elect only…that is the only way to get to the Father. This is our belief. I hope you don’t find anything negative with what I wrote.

You and I, and all the people of this world, are going through life, we have experiences that shape us into the person we are…we have our hearts that currently only God can see fully. This life isn’t a joke, we are real people…

God knows how He spoke to us through out our life asking us to do His will on earth, weather He asked us to learn and change ourselves for His sake, or weather He asked us to do something for others.

As a christian, I am asked to bring the Good News of Jesus to the whole world. I can do this by actually physically going preaching the good news, or I can do this in my daily life with people I come into contact with…including the web forums…

God is patient, God is kind. He does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. He is not rude, He is not self-seeking, He is not easily angered, He keeps no record of wrongs. God does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. He always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
God never fails!

When we are perfectly conformed into God’s image, then, and only then, can we claim to LOVE as He loves us.

Peace to you Meedo, and to your whole family.
Your brother,
Luigi
 
Note - “Mohammedans” used to be heard used fairly commonly as an alternative name for those of the Muslim faith.

It has been explained above that Muslims reject this name, inasmuch as they do not worship Mohammed. This should not be difficult for Catholics to to understand; consider it to be somewhat analagous to the reaction of Catholics to being termed “papists”.

Out of respect for the sensibilities of our Muslim brethren, I’d ask that posters refrain from any further use of “Mohammedans” or “Muhammedans” to describe those of the Muslim faith.

Thank you,

Joe
 
Thank you brother Joe for your elite manners . I am encouraged to stay on this forum more and more by examples like you and brother Luigi and brother Ltoney and Brother Ryan and many others.

I am happy to be on this forum.

Yours always

Meedo
 
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JimG:
Hawk is referring to the Muslim teaching that Jesus did not die. He thinks that the Church’s ‘acceptance’ of Muslims as holding the faith of Abraham, tends to help give credence to this false teaching. And that surely cannot be the intent of the Catechism.
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if it were true that Jesus did not die, entonces, if He did not die, He must have been assumed into heaven, como su madre, or (question?) He must be more than 2000 years old, i think the differenc is almost nil. so then, the differences are in reality very small.

i can’t believe that God would abandon a third of His people to a falsedad,
 
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meedo:
Well as a muslim i can see that probably from what i read, the message of the Pope diudnt really mean what it says or had a hidden meaning in it .

Well yr teacher lied to you or either doesnt know.

We never worshipped Muhammed PBUH . Muhammed PBUH is dead . He was human . A mortal . He was a Messanger of God .

So we arent called Muhammedans . As for heresy , well the jews Call you heretic also and lost so i guess its ok .

Peace
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you’re a smart cat. do you really live in egypt, what’s it like there?
God hs=as finally shown me un poco de luz regarding Islam. so we are all sons of abraham!!

God said to abraham, put your son as a burnt offering, :dad, where is the lamb, son, you’re the lamb!! but then let him off the hook. then God gave His only son as the ultimate sacrifice. ponder that for a little while.
 
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