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Isa_Almisry
Guest
And I will repeat. We had St. Ephrem. We had the Bible.Confer St. Ephrem.
And the bible!
As soon as they were interpreted as IC, it was condemned as an innovation.
And I will repeat. We had St. Ephrem. We had the Bible.Confer St. Ephrem.
And the bible!
What? They believe in Real Presence; are you saying that they are saying that one must recieve under both species to have the fullness of the Eucharist? Is that what the Orthodox believe?-Denying that Christ is fully present
EITHER in the transformed bread OR wine.
It’s not an issue, we always commune with both bread and wine. It wasn’t until the Latins decided for whatever reason that it was a good idea to deny the Sacred Chalice to the laity that it became an issue in the Catholic Church.What? They believe in Real Presence; are you saying that they are saying that one must recieve under both species to have the fullness of the Eucharist? Is that what the Orthodox believe?
Validated?…Have there been validated Eucharistic miracles in the Orthodox Church?
Yes. That the Orthodox Church has steped in and said, ‘This is surely a sign from God.’ …Negating the miracle of the bread and wine becoming Flesh & Blood, of course. Validated, as in, they needed to make sure it was from God like the weeping Icon(s).Validated?![]()
I may be wrong but I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of a Church “validating” anything in the way you describe. How would you even go about such a thing?Yes. That the Orthodox Church has steped in and said, ‘This is surely a sign from God.’ …Negating the miracle of the bread and wine becoming Flesh & Blood, of course. Validated, as in, they needed to make sure it was from God like the weeping Icon(s).
The traditional Jewish seder is not the norm of the 1st century, as the Dead Sea Scrolls etc. show.I thought it was a traditional Jewish Seder.
Not IC. That’s why we affirm she had a death. From actual sin, yes.And the Orthodox hold to Mary was sinless to her death, right?
The dogma of the IC does not affirm that she did not die. The EO have no grounds for objection to it.Not IC. That’s why we affirm she had a death. From actual sin, yes.
When our Church had a weeping icon, the bishop immediately came and exorcised the icon, to make sure of the source. Then the icon was examined for devices etc. Then it was announced that yes, there was no natural means that had been discovered. And that was that.I may be wrong but I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of a Church “validating” anything in the way you describe. How would you even go about such a thing?
Yours in Christ
Joe
AHA! Okay, so, the Orthodox believe that she had Original Sin, which is why she died, but, She, Herself, didn’t personally do anything sinful against God.The traditional Jewish seder is not the norm of the 1st century, as the Dead Sea Scrolls etc. show.
Not IC. That’s why we affirm she had a death. From actual sin, yes.
Tell that to your Immortalists. And some of your Mortalists. I have a discussion once with Fr. Pacwa who claimed that she did die, but volunarily as a disciple of her son.The dogma of the IC does not affirm that she did not die. The EO have no grounds for objection to it.
Blessings,
Marduk
Several here been there. Done that. That’s why they’re Orthodox.Judging from the responses here from our brothers in the East… I am more confident in the primacy of the West.
Come home to Rome.
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Eucharistic Ecclesiology.I challenge any Catholic to name one doctrine or dogma the Orthodox Church has begun to teach since the schism that wasn’t taught before.
Yours in Christ
Joe
DITTO!!!Doctrines that are novel in the Eastern ORTHODOX Churches:
-Denial that the Son has ANY role in the Procession
-Denial of the Toll-house doctrine (which according to Father Rose is a matter of doctrinal Faith to be believed by all)
-Denial of the doctrine of Atonement
-Denial of the necessity of the head bishop, or even the existence of the head bishop.
-Utilization of the doctrine of Essence/Energies to make a heterodox distinction WITHIN the Godhead
-Nationalism in ecclesiology.
-Denial that St. Peter is the Rock, or falsely dichotomizing Jesus and Peter’s confession from Peter himself.
-Demeaning the use of holy images in Latin Christendom (i.e., the use of statues or realism in art)
-Denying that Christ is fully present EITHER in the transformed bread OR wine.
-granting permission for divorce and remarriage in circumstances unheard of in the early Fathers
-the idea that artificial contraception is not a sin.
These are just some that I could think of off-hand. I’m sure these points can be denied or rationalized, but that doesn’t affect the fact that they exist in some form or other within Eastern Orthodoxy. It’s really a matter of perspective - Catholics will claim the dogma of the IC and papal infallibility are fully patristic, just as I’m sure Eastern Orthodox can rationalize away some or all of the points I made above.
Not all of these are points that I agree to myself. But I have heard or read them somewhere from non-Orthodox polemicists.
Blessings,
Marduk
AMEN!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!!Doctrines that are novel in the Eastern ORTHODOX Churches:
-Denial that the Son has ANY role in the Procession
-Denial of the Toll-house doctrine (which according to Father Rose is a matter of doctrinal Faith to be believed by all)
-Denial of the doctrine of Atonement
-Denial of the necessity of the head bishop, or even the existence of the head bishop.
-Utilization of the doctrine of Essence/Energies to make a heterodox distinction WITHIN the Godhead
-Nationalism in ecclesiology.
-Denial that St. Peter is the Rock, or falsely dichotomizing Jesus and Peter’s confession from Peter himself.
-Demeaning the use of holy images in Latin Christendom (i.e., the use of statues or realism in art)
-Denying that Christ is fully present EITHER in the transformed bread OR wine.
-granting permission for divorce and remarriage in circumstances unheard of in the early Fathers
-the idea that artificial contraception is not a sin.
These are just some that I could think of off-hand. I’m sure these points can be denied or rationalized, but that doesn’t affect the fact that they exist in some form or other within Eastern Orthodoxy. It’s really a matter of perspective - Catholics will claim the dogma of the IC and papal infallibility are fully patristic, just as I’m sure Eastern Orthodox can rationalize away some or all of the points I made above.
Not all of these are points that I agree to myself. But I have heard or read them somewhere from non-Orthodox polemicists.
Blessings,
Marduk
I thank God everyday to have a brother like Marduk. He helped me in my faith immensely. I second this AMEN!AMEN!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!!