Is the Glories of Mary heretical?

[NJada]

I do not see what the connection is between the quote by Bl. Newman and the typology of Mary as Queen of Heaven. How does this show me what you mean about why you disagree with the queen mother typology? John Henry Newman was not denying that Mary is Queen of Heaven, nor that Jesus honors her every request.
I still don’t get what your objection is.

St. Alphonsus Liguori is one of the 36 Saints which the Church has given the title, “Doctor of the Church,” meaning universal teacher. When a Catholic refers to Mary’s command, and Jesus obeying it, although I understand how the wording is misleading and it would be good to consider that most people will take this to mean something else, you have to try to understand what the person actually means, which is that Jesus fulfills Mary’s every request, because she desires only His will and all her prayers are pleasing to Him.
“For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.” (James 5:16)

“I didn’t say it was wrong; I said it hurts your claim.”
Okay, how so?
If a biblical type, by doing something wrong, prefigures Christ who was to come to fulfill what that person failed to do–how does it hurt my claim?

 

[Agathon]

How does this show me what you mean about why you disagree with the queen mother typology?

Show me where I said I didn’t believe Mary was Queen of Heaven. If you got no evidence, don’t twist my words.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

You can use Esther instead since her intercession was effective in saving the Jews.

 

[NJada]

I asked: “And if you don’t disagree that Mary is Queen of Heaven, then what is it about the queen mother typology you disagree with?”

You replied to that, saying, “Read the John Henry Neumann quote. You’ll find out exactly what I mean.”

Sorry if I misunderstood, but you appeared to be saying, “Read the John Henry Newman quote as the answer to ‘what is it about the queen mother typology you disagree with’,” as in, “I disagree with the queen mother typology, and the reason is in the John Henry Newman quote.”
Okay, good, so you believe Mary is Queen of Heaven.

I still asked a bunch of other questions, which I was hoping you would answer, because I still don’t entirely know what it is you even disagree with or take issue with.

 

[NJada]

True, and Esther is a positive type of Mary’s queenship. Bathsheba is a negative type.
Both types are very useful and supportive of the truths about Mary.

 

[rose321]

She will always do the same when we ask her to pray for us.

Respectfully and in honoring our Blesses Mother’s request, do what he tells you?
Jesus continues in such teaching instruction on how to pray and to whom, does he not?

Jesus taught us how to prayer and to whom, letting all know we can directly approach Him? Lords Prayer? >Which begins with > Our Father?

Jesus Apostles continue in such teaching, through their knowledge and understanding, repeating Jesus words that >Our Heavenly Father within His spoken Word waits for us, does he not?

In Matthew 7:7-8 ask? seek? and knock?
Again in Luke 11:9
Jesus within his Spoken Word one out of many
John 14:6
Jesus clearly preaches through out his teaching through me I am the way the truth and the life follow me?

Jesus wants you to >>know >The Father does he not what his whole preaching and teaching was about? Earthy Mothers know their children favorite food what they like or not not like?

Jesus is not concerned if we know his favorite food, but that we the true manna, spiritual food, His spoken Word that nourishes us, that can only come from above that will give us eternal Life and nourishes us?

Jesus whole mission, task given was to be our guide to our Heavenly Father, walk not on the broad road but the narrow road where few shall enter?

Our Heavenly Father, This is my son in whom I am well pleased, Jesus brought our Heavenly Father great pleasure and came to teach us all to >know>what is pleasing and acceptable into His hands, did he not?

Jesus calls us all to serve our Heavenly Father as our Blessed Mother did so also?
John 5: 5, 5:19, 5:30, Very truly I tell you the Son can do nothing by himself, without the Father…

John 16:7 Far better that I go, for my Father will send you the advocate to lead you, teach you, be head over you the Holy Spirit.
He leaves us not orphans does he? Our Heavenly Father provides the way?

Jesus tells us no one can come to me unless he is sent by my Father? Jesus again reminds his Apostles does he not?>>

Jesus tells St Peter

John 6:44 This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has granted to him.

Again

John 12:32 And I when I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to myself >.

Again
Matthew 16:17 How blessed you are Simeon son of Jonah since flesh and blood has not revealed this to you though my Father in heaven has.>>

God chooses whom He wills and those in whom He chooses, He gives each their task and mission, when all those said yes to him, that is good enough for me also.
Moses task was to give Our Heavenly Fathers Laws, Moses was>> known and called, The Law Giver >by Jesus himself,

God chooses His prophets, prophetess all in OT, they also have a task’s ,mission given in serving him also?

Honoring the request of our loving Blessed Mother, makes it very clear for our own good>>Do what He tells you!

Why does Jesus teach us to approach him directly, communicate with him?

Return to Me and I will return to you, repeated so many times?

Just opinion but this is Jesus Spoken Words, teaching, preaching Apostles not mine. Peace

 

[Agathon]

This is what I’m talking about.

 

[godisgood77]

True, but at the same time Mary is omnipotent according to the Glories of Mary.

“She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son’s power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son.”

I would never subscribe to this… never! And I would still be a good catholic…

 

[Augustinian]

The short answer to your question is “no”.

The author of the book in Alphonsus Liguori, who has been canonized as a saint.

Responsible parties analyzed his book at that time, and they would have not canonized him if his major work was heretical.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

I think you misunderstand what the author is trying to convey.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I would never subscribe to this… never! And I would still be a good catholic…

If you go around calling canonized saints “heretics” you’re not a “good Catholic” because you’re disagreeing with a decision of the Vatican to canonize the saint.

Best to just accept that you do not quite understand the idea being conveyed, and either try harder to grasp it or just move on.

 

[adgloriam]

godisgood77:

Mary is subordinate to God, not the other way around

True, but at the same time Mary is omnipotent according to the Glories of Mary.
“She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son’s power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son.”

Where exactly is this written in the book?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Chapter VI, section I, I believe it’s quoting Richard of St. Laurent (French theologian of the 1400s)

 

[Edward_H]

She said “Do whatever He tells you”.

And that led to the first public miracle.

Her will was His will, and in that sharing comes glory for her and for us.

 

[Francis]

Well said @April29
He who gives the Laws will he not obey them? Luke 2:19,51 But Mary treasured all these words and pondered them in her heart.

But yet by God’s Grace Mary turned Word of God into flesh,did She not?as in John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. She is full of Grace Luke 1:28

Did the Heavenly Father choose Mother Mary after the fall of man ? as In Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee (satan) and the woman(Mary), and thy seed wicked sinners and those who dishonor Her against God’s Will and her seedJesus, Catholic and those who honor and respect Her for what She is, the Mother of God ) she shall crush(what a humiliation for satan who is pride to be defeated and crushed by a women, God loves it ) thy(satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Read and meditate? understand?

Did all sin? yes Romans 3:23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if any one is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him./ Her, (Mother Mary obey does the will of God and Worship Him Luke 1:46-55 )God listens to Her.

we all have sinned? Does God listen to sinners ? read and understand? No !

So what does God do? He creates a new creation the New eve in Jeremiah 31:22 How long will you waver,O faithless daughter? (Eve and we her children) For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth:a woman(Mother Mary sinless ) protects a man.( Jesus)”

Blessed Mother, makes it very clear whom to obey? Jesus and He make it very clear whom to obey Mother Mary,did He not? He gave his last treasure(all the Graces,secrets of the Kingdom of God is Hidden in the Immaculate Heart of Mary. LK 2:19,51) to the Church as St John as a Apostle and representing all of us, read and understand ? follow His instructions?

John 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman,(addressing as the Women of Genesis 3:15 the New Eve our Mother Mary) behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!”( its a commandment Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long(Eternity ) in the land (Heaven)which the Lord your God gives you).And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home(His heart, the Church, for all human race for Eternity).Hebrews 11:16 (Mother Mary metaphorically emphasized here Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem (Mother Mary)

Heavenly Father has done great things for Her, He has brought down rulers from their thrones and lifted up the lowly(Mother Mary ) He did the will of the Father and fulfilled His promise ,His mission,role,did He not? Jesus said it is Finished only then, He fulfilled and finished His most important mission of His life, the will the Father, by entrusting Mother Mary to the Church did He not ? Women behold your Son . “Behold, your mother!” Its a commandment ,lets Obey and finish our mission by doing the will of God.God Bless

 

[godisgood77]

True, but at the same time Mary is omnipotent according to the Glories of Mary.

Maybe according to the Glories of Mary, but i’ll stick with Blessed John Henry Newman and put this idea away from me…

After such explanation, and with such authorities, to clear my path, I put away from me, as you would wish, without any hesitation, as matters in which my heart and reason have no part, (when taken in their literal and absolute sense, as any Protestant would naturally take them, and as the writers doubtless did not use them), such sentences, and phrases, as these:—that the mercy of Mary is infinite; that God has resigned into her hands His omnipotence;

 

[adgloriam]

The same had been revealed to saint Gertrude when she heard Our Redeemer say to Mary, The He through His Omnipotence had granted her to use of mercy with the sinners, that invoke her, in the way she saw fit.

Ex omnipotentia mea, Mater, tibi concessi propitiationem omnium peccatorum, qui devote invocant tuae pietatis auxilium, qualicumque modo placet tibi.

in “Glories of Mary” by Saint Alphonso of Liguori. Chapter IV, section I, subsection II, penultimate paragrapah just before the example.

A beautiful passage @Tis_Bearself, the two passages preceding the one I quote are also magnificent in giving context.

I know you enjoy “prayer cards”, when I acquired this book it brought inside a curious prayer card noteworthy because of the date:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[rose321]

He who gives the Laws will he not obey them?
Respectfully opinion only:slightly_smiling_face:

Did Jesus know who was not obeying his laws and adding to them, subtracting from them,? Answer can it be found in Matthew Chapter 23 >
Who was Jesus boldly? strongly? harshly? rebuking identifying? calling them blood vipers? children of their Father of lies? charging them with not obeying the laws of Moses, hypocrites 3x?

Did Jesus obey the Torah Law that calls for a woman to be stone death if she committed adultery? Did Jesus come to restore? Make known the correct teaching of the Laws of Moses? Jesus must of been fully aware being the author of what his Prophet Jeremiah 8:8?

Their own>seed >Off springs will accomplish it?

Does not our Heavenly Father call all Woman to bring forth His Greatest Treasure, his most Scared Blessing, he has chosen to come through the Womb of a Woman, to turn into flesh His beloved sons and daughters= a child?

Throughout all Jesus teaching His Spoken Word that flows throughout the whole Bible, does Our Heavenly Loving Father, seek to place with all his children, the fullness of His Blessings and Graces, calling out >>Return to Me and I Will return to you?

Has our Heavenly Father not been > bestowing His Graces > His favor > upon whom He chooses, when he chooses >since the beginning of time?

Grace was not something new in the time and era of Jesus was it, to our Heavenly Father?

OT daughter was a Nation? Are we not all called to become the New Eve and new Adam? If we all are paying the price for Adam and Eve sins, all have sinned, did we not?

Blessed Mother, Do what he tells you?

Honor thy Father and Mother, speaking to all?

Our Heavenly Father has done great things for His Creation, His Loving family, His loving children, for all. Jesus came to bestow upon all,
by lifting up the lowly by>>
Jesus defended the outcast?
Jesus defended the down trodden?
Jesus stood up defended the widows,mothers also?
Jesus defended the orphans, his greatest treasures, his sons and daughters?
Jesus sought to serve, defend the poorest among did he not?
Our Heavenly Father was > bestowing His Great Blessings, bestowing His Graces, His Holy Spirit, this time in the flesh, to bestow upon all, did he not?
Jesus fed lowly did he not?
Jesus ate with the lowly, did he not?
Jesus cried with the lowly did he not?
Jesus stayed with lowly did he not?
Jesus taught us how to pray and prayed with them,
Jesus walked among lowly did he not?
Jesus call out preached to lowly did he not?
Jesus lived in community of the lowly did he not?
Jesus strongly, boldly, harshly rebuked those who were called to serve him, did he not? Matthew Chapter 23 those who were not obeying the laws themselves?
Jesus for ears to hear Repent Return to Me and I Will Return to you, did he not?

Jesus suffered the most agony of death on the cross for the lowly, who were thought of as nothing, rebuking those who thought they were, did he not?

Now if that is not our Loving Heavenly Father, bestowing his Greatest Blessing, Greatest Mercy, Greatest Graces given desiring all to be filled with, then what is Grace?

 

[rose321]

You can use Esther instead since her intercession was effective in saving the Jews.

Respectfully opinion only. In what is written throughout the whole Bible our Heavenly Father has called out, chosen many Woman along the way, to serve him, were blessed also just that theses woman within the bible, were never given the recognition they deserved why? Peace

 

[deMontfort]

Now how about summing up what you’re trying to say instead of burying it under a wall of unreadable text?