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stpurl
Guest
A final choice. Eternity is not ‘time’, so you don’t enter eternity and say, “Oh cool, today I’ll do this, tomorrow I’ll choose that”. Your will is now ‘eternal’ and eternal things do not change.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
That’s a very interesting testimony and I want to ponder on it a while and don’t want to give you the idea I’m ignoring you 
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Imma get a wee bit confessional myself—as a person struggling with a combination of people-pleasing and enabling (because reasons too extensive and sometimes even ludicrous to get into here), I’ve had to learn to untangle the threads of who is actually my friend, boundaries, and (the hardest one of all) realizing that there are people out there who would deliberately do my family and me harm and never look back.
I was the absolute queen of making endless excuses for the bad behavior of others, people who I’m stuck with, and wanted desperately to believe that bad behavior is “just their way” but they did like me underneath it all.
And some people really don’t like God. And really don’t want to be with Him.
.Imma get a wee bit confessional myself—as a person struggling with a combination of people-pleasing and enabling (because reasons too extensive and sometimes even ludicrous to get into here), I’ve had to learn to untangle the threads of who is actually my friend, boundaries, and (the hardest one of all) realizing that there are people out there who would deliberately do my family and me harm and never look back.
I was the absolute queen of making endless excuses for the bad behavior of others, people who I’m stuck with, and wanted desperately to believe that bad behavior is “just their way” but they did like me underneath it all.
And some people really don’t like God. And really don’t want to be with Him.
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yammerGee
Guest
But Aquinas says hell cannot truly be eternal in that sense because something can be eternal only insofar as it is united with God. He even mentions change, at least with pain, being possible.
And if that is the case, then how and why do the wills become fixed?
Basically he compares it to an infinite amount of time, rather than somehow being fixed outside of time.
And if that is the case, then how and why do the wills become fixed?
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Once again, @QwertyGirl God does this kind of thing all the time. But the thing is, your relative WANTED to be in a relationship with you. People in hell DON’T want to be in a relationship with God.
People who think God “sends” people to hell because they committed too many sins or whatnot miss the forest for the trees. I just hope you understand that. You still might disagree with it, but I would hate for you to disagree with a misconception rather than what is true.
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PennyinCanada
Guest
It’s more like this… Let’s say the superbowl was on, packed with people and tv cameras to cover every angle of every play, and you got dropped down onto the middle of the field, naked. For myself, I would run as fast as I could to the nearest exit. Does that seem like a reasonable response?
When we die and come before God, he is this mirror of light. You will see yourself naked if you will, in front of God, and you will scream to hide yourself from this mirror of light. You will run to the nearest exit. This is why scripture tells us to ‘put on Christ’. The old testament also reveals this truth. There is an aging father, blind, close to death, who calls his eldest son to receive his final blessing. The younger son, who desires the blessing, with his mother conspire to put on a wooly sheep skin to fool the father. His brother was very hairy, and the father gave the younger son the blessing. That is our story. The Father in heaven is telling us that when we come before him, and he sees Jesus, we receive the final blessing. This is the grace I wish for you. It’s an incredible deal. Jesus dies on the cross, I get the blessing. Every morning when I get up, I tell God that I want that blessing, I want to be his daughter. I want to be in heaven when it’s time. How is it that you don’t start your day like that?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Because people aren’t concerned with loving God. They’re just concerned with proving God is a hypocrite or some other bad thing so they can reject following him as rubbish and continue to do exactly what they personally think is right without the fear of Hell.
If they loved God they wouldn’t fear Hell.
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vsedriver
Guest
do you believe Hitler is happy and in heaven?
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vsedriver
Guest
key point here is the love is mutual. How does this apply if you love someone and they don’t love you? Will you force your love on them and force them to maintain a relationship with you? Or do you let them walk away?
God doesn’t force anyone to love him. God still loves the souls in hell but he won’t force himself on those who reject him. So they get to live for eternity without God.
Probably not.QwertyGirl:
do you believe Hitler is happy and in heaven?
However, I know of another monstrous Nazi who could very well be: Rudof Hoess, commandant of the Auschwitz death camp; responsible for the development of the Zyklon B gas poisoning system.
Hitler’s eternal fate is an exercise in useless speculation. Hoess’s, however, is a story of grace and mercy. Hoess was no less a monster than Hitler in his life, and he may have to stay in Purgatory till the end of the world, but in all likelihood, we will see Hoess in heaven.
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vsedriver
Guest
not trying to be confrontational but seriously interested in your view of God.
Do you think you see God as a supremely perfect human? because from that point of view I would agree with you when it comes to the human concept of a loving relationship it wouldn’t be possible for God to allow anyone to end up in hell.
But I don’t see God as a prefect human. Therefore I trust that he knows what is best for us and if some people end up in hell then I know it is because of his perfect love, perfect justice, and perfect mercy. I’m OK with that.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
The part I disagree with is that time runs out when our soul leaves our physical body. The rest of it is mental gymnastics, regardless of what anyone believes. It is a thought experiment, because nobody really knows what happens when we die. Lets not forget that in very recent times the teaching was that heaven was a reward and hell, the punishment. We can’t pretend that isn’t what was taught (and still is, in many Catholic parishes, households, and schools).
The idea that the sand runs out just because our physical body dies is a ridiculous notion, to me.
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vsedriver
Guest
Catholics don’t believe that either
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QwertyGirl
Guest
I don’t doubt that he very well may be. He was a very troubled man, with severe mental illness, I believe.
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Lifeisbeautiful3
Guest
Do you believe most non-Christians will go to heaven?
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Mike1w
Guest
Its the same between us and say, computers as it is between God and us. Computers are not programmed to judge humans, by their creators’s design. But we have absolute authority over computers ( unless they somehow become sentient, a topic for a separate thread ).
Similarly God has absolute authority over us, while we have none over him.
Similarly God has absolute authority over us, while we have none over him.
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vsedriver
Guest
our wills are fixed at judgment. God’s judgment is final. Once judged you are either with him or without him. Hence the human will is fixed. God gave the same choice to the angels. They just didn’t get a set number of years to make up their minds.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
No confrontation assumed.
I am agnostic. So depending on which way the wind blows, I can entertain different ideas about the concept of God and the possibility of an afterlife.
In answer to your direct question, no, I don’t perceive God to be a super human. I like to believe in a higher power who created us with good reason and intention. The higher power I believe in is pure goodness and has reasons we can never understand, in this life at least. I like to believe that it isn’t our business to know why we are here, just that we should make the most of it. I don’t get in to all of the things various religions teach. I believe those are man-made concepts. I study them. I pull from them what I feel will be helpful in guiding me to live my best life (and by that, I mean be the best person I can be; not materialist
ically). I believe we are born with a conscience. I believe the world doesn’t match our notion of perfection because a higher power has other plans. I believe, utlimately, we are here to learn. Through good, bad and indifferent circumstances and occurances.
Finally, I like to believe that when we die, our spirit (our soul) leaves the body and goes on to someplace else, and it will be a positive thing. I don’t begin to assume I know how all of that works. I believe we probably aren’t meant to know that, as humans. Ultimately, the higher power I believe in has my back and will never abandon me.
Probably way more than you wanted to know.
I enjoy reading these threads because Catholicism, like other religions, has some very interesting ideas around all of this.
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catholicuniversal
Guest
God loves the souls He has created, when they go astray, it doesn’t make Him feel good to get what we feel as revenge, it would be like if you have a child and you do all you can to help them overcome a drug addiction or something similar which causes them to be kept in trouble, so to help them, you call the police on them. You aren’t doing this to get revenge, you are permitting their free will to exist, since they rejected the help you offered to help them quit their addiction, and they must now suffer the consequences. God wills all people to go to Heaven, but not all people are just. He calls us to forgive those who hurt us because we have hurt Him, we killed Him. He is sovereign over life and death, He can justly take away what He has given us. We don’t see all He does to help us, how many chances He has given us. In the end, it is not God who damns people, but people who damn themselves.
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