T
That_Flint_Guy
Guest
Is God a hypocrite for commanding us to love and forgive our enemies and those who mistreat us whether they repent or not, while sending His enemies to hell to burn forever?
- Status
po18guy
Well-known member
Q: Should we make negative assumptions about someone we may not know? When I do that, I am accused of either rash judgment or stereotyping. Anyway, far better to doubt and make negative assumptions about ourselves first, no?
God, as Creator, is above morality; above the law. Would we place restrictions upon the artist? That he or she could not create anything which did not resemble themselves or follow the same code of conduct?
He’s large and in charge. Mere human morality does not apply to Him. He is absolutely free to do as He wishes with that which He has created - just as the artist is free.
In a broader sense, we err when we attempt to apply the rules of the finite to the infinite.
God, as Creator, is above morality; above the law. Would we place restrictions upon the artist? That he or she could not create anything which did not resemble themselves or follow the same code of conduct?
He’s large and in charge. Mere human morality does not apply to Him. He is absolutely free to do as He wishes with that which He has created - just as the artist is free.
In a broader sense, we err when we attempt to apply the rules of the finite to the infinite.
Last edited:
T
That_Flint_Guy
Guest
I was attempting to apply His own standards of morality to Him. Forgive your enemies while I pour out my wrath upon mine. Very similar to the parent who tells their children not to drink or smoke while holding a beer in one hand and a lit cigarette in the other.
God commands one thing, but doesn’t practice it. Simply holding a grudge against someone is far less severe than subjecting someone to eternal torment.
(Just playing devil’s advocate to see what people think.)
God commands one thing, but doesn’t practice it. Simply holding a grudge against someone is far less severe than subjecting someone to eternal torment.
(Just playing devil’s advocate to see what people think.)
0
0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Sin is poison to our souls amd Hell is the natural consequence of separating yourself from God.
If your child stuck his hand in the fire, is his burn the result of you “not forgiving” him?
If your child stuck his hand in the fire, is his burn the result of you “not forgiving” him?
Q
QwertyGirl
Guest
No, it wouldn’t be. But a loving parent would treat the burn and hold their child close, wipe their tears, and make especially sure they knew and felt they were loved while they healed.
0
0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Yes.
That’s what we call the sacraments.
No sinner is ever refused healing when they ask for it.
It’s hard to comprehend that somebody doesn’t want healing, but some people would rather not do things His way, the right way.
That’s what we call the sacraments.
No sinner is ever refused healing when they ask for it.
It’s hard to comprehend that somebody doesn’t want healing, but some people would rather not do things His way, the right way.
Q
QwertyGirl
Guest
I believe we were talking about the concept of hell.
A loving parent would never permanently separate him or herself from a child just because the child didn’t do things the parent’s way.
A loving parent would never permanently separate him or herself from a child just because the child didn’t do things the parent’s way.
0
0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Except in this case, it’s the child who ran away from the parent.
Would you bind your adult and fully competent child hand and foot and drags them back to your home against their will?
When they clearly dont want you?
Would you bind your adult and fully competent child hand and foot and drags them back to your home against their will?
When they clearly dont want you?
Q
QwertyGirl
Guest
No, of course not. But I would always be willing to welcome them back with open arms if they came back to me. There would never be a point where I would say “We are done”.
E
Eric_Hyom
Guest
Jesus suffered greatly to show how much he loves us. I can’t see Jesus giving up on us either. Thanks for sharing.
E
Eric_Hyom
Guest
Jesus died to forgive your sins and my sins, does that make Jesus a hypocrite? How far would you go to forgive someone, would you die for them?
Last edited:
0
0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
But the person in Hell doesn’t want forgiveness and doesn’t want God.
S
stpurl
Guest
How do you know that Hell is not love?
First, remember that mortal sin isn’t just ‘peanuts’. It is extremely grave matter, fully understood, freely and fully chosen, and unrepented and therefore eternally committed, through eternity.
Second, a person who chooses that kind of rejection is hating and rejecting God for eternity. God’s presence to that person is beyond painful --we can’t imagine it. Does God FORCE the person to remain with Him anyway? No, He permits the person to be in a place that is away.
Third, we all know loving parents whose children reject them in unspeakable ways. We know parents whose children have tortured them and killed them, for example. These parents probably still love their children even ‘after death’, but what of the child? Imagine a scenario where, for eternity, that child never stops torturing and killing his parents, over and over, while the parents suffer eternally. Is that fair? is that just?
If the child never chooses to heal (and we all know of people who just can’t seem to, for example, let a scab alone), and his actions cause anguish to others, should he be allowed to continue to affect those others for eternity, or, since he is still a child and loved despite all that, should he be placed where he cannot hurt others?
Free will means we can freely choose to accept God but it also means we can reject Him.
The devil, the brightest angel once, rejected God.
Why would humans be ‘better?’
We may think, “Hey, if I were God, I would create beings who would always ‘freely choose good’, and if they went wrong, I’d ‘fix them’” Sounds great in theory but it is neither just nor loving to allow beings to ‘choose what they desire’ on earth, then just, "that was wrong, we’ll wipe out your entire soul and make you ‘acceptable’ now.
First, remember that mortal sin isn’t just ‘peanuts’. It is extremely grave matter, fully understood, freely and fully chosen, and unrepented and therefore eternally committed, through eternity.
Second, a person who chooses that kind of rejection is hating and rejecting God for eternity. God’s presence to that person is beyond painful --we can’t imagine it. Does God FORCE the person to remain with Him anyway? No, He permits the person to be in a place that is away.
Third, we all know loving parents whose children reject them in unspeakable ways. We know parents whose children have tortured them and killed them, for example. These parents probably still love their children even ‘after death’, but what of the child? Imagine a scenario where, for eternity, that child never stops torturing and killing his parents, over and over, while the parents suffer eternally. Is that fair? is that just?
If the child never chooses to heal (and we all know of people who just can’t seem to, for example, let a scab alone), and his actions cause anguish to others, should he be allowed to continue to affect those others for eternity, or, since he is still a child and loved despite all that, should he be placed where he cannot hurt others?
Free will means we can freely choose to accept God but it also means we can reject Him.
The devil, the brightest angel once, rejected God.
Why would humans be ‘better?’
We may think, “Hey, if I were God, I would create beings who would always ‘freely choose good’, and if they went wrong, I’d ‘fix them’” Sounds great in theory but it is neither just nor loving to allow beings to ‘choose what they desire’ on earth, then just, "that was wrong, we’ll wipe out your entire soul and make you ‘acceptable’ now.
0
0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Part of the problem with this question is that it seems to posit that at the beginning of time, God is up there on His throne with a list of possible human actions, gleefully checking off forbidden actions (“let’s see now…uhm…mortal, mortal, venial”).
However, our understanding as Catholics is this: we are created a certain way, for a certain purpose, and there are actions that cause harm to us and other people. God wants us to prosper, and that’s why He’s warned us against these actions.
We call these actions sins.
However, our understanding as Catholics is this: we are created a certain way, for a certain purpose, and there are actions that cause harm to us and other people. God wants us to prosper, and that’s why He’s warned us against these actions.
We call these actions sins.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Please, not another thread on how “God sends so-and-so to Hell to burn forever.” (We just had one. It seems we get several per week.)
For the umpteenth time, people send themselves to Hell, by their own choices to reject God, his love and his mercy. God doesn’t pick them up and drop them there.
For the umpteenth time, people send themselves to Hell, by their own choices to reject God, his love and his mercy. God doesn’t pick them up and drop them there.
Last edited:
Q
QwertyGirl
Guest
Does the child who is sent to their room because they did wrong not want their parents? Of course they still want their parents.
I believe that when you die your soul continues living. I don’t believe a loving God cuts the cord at that time and says “No more forgiveness for you”.
One of the biggest acts of charity I believe us humans can do is to forgive even when forgiveness isn’t sought by the offender. If we can do that, God certainly does it. It is why I don’t believe in hell.
For the record, I don’t believe God is a hypocrite. I think he is clearly misunderstood, in a lot of ways.
Last edited:
D
dconklin
Guest
God does not do the sending. The sinner sends himself. Sin is the decision to turn away from God.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Which is EXACTLY what God does when anyone, even the worst sinner in the world who’s committed a mass genocide, turns to him.
The people in Hell are there because they rejected God. They made Hell for themselves and put themselves in it.
V
Vico
Guest
We are asked to forgive our enemies and those who mistreat us that repent. God does not demand that we approve sin, but desires that our minds shall be purified from hatred.
1 John
Luke 17
Matthew 18
Tis_Bearself
Patron
A person who is so far gone as to end up in Hell is way different from a child fumbling in his relationship with loving parents.
You, and a whole lot of other people with strange (to me) ideas, seem to think people are going to Hell right and left for sins while they still love God and at heart want to please him. It’s simply not the case.
- Status