Is the Gospel of Mark Unreliable?

[po18guy]

General observation and comment: After 1986 years of the most intense scrutiny on planet earth, do we really think that some modern dude has won the atheist lotto and debunked the faith?

Really…

Rather, I assert that critics of the faith and scripture are unreliable. We’d best not commit the sin of credulity. After all, the serpent’s revision of truth in the garden of Eden was very persuasive, no?

 

[Dan_Defender]

It’s likely that Jesus did not speak greek at all.

You underestimate Jesus. What language do you then think he spoke with Pilate during his trial?

 

[irenaeuslyons]

irenaeuslyons:

It’s likely that Jesus did not speak greek at all.

You underestimate Jesus. What language do you then think he spoke with Pilate during his trial?

Well, I don’t think Pilate would condescend (in his mind) to learning Hebrew or Aramaic. Latin was the legal language of the courts in those days and for centuries after. So the trial of Jesus was most likely in Latin.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Sorry but that doesn’t make sense. During the trial, not only the high priests and Pharisees but the common Jews understood what was being said and shouted. So to me, Latin is the least likely.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hmmm, I question that. Gallilee May have been Hellenized but Jesus wasn’t. I have a hard time thinking He would use other than the Hebrew Bible but I guess it’s possible? I wouldn’t say probable, however.

Virtually all of the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament come from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Scriptures. It was widely used in Palestine and considered authoritative.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

Sorry but that doesn’t make sense. During the trial, not only the high priests and Pharisees but the common Jews understood what was being said and shouted. So to me, Latin is the least likely.

Well, I guess we disagree. Its not really important anyway. All three languages were written on the cross because there was a major cross section of that society that communicated in each.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

Pattylt:

Hmmm, I question that. Gallilee May have been Hellenized but Jesus wasn’t. I have a hard time thinking He would use other than the Hebrew Bible but I guess it’s possible? I wouldn’t say probable, however.

Virtually all of the Old Testament quotes in the New Testament come from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Scriptures. It was widely used in Palestine and considered authoritative.

That’s true, but in my opinion, when writing a gospel in greek, the author is going to reference the accepted greek version of the OT translations, instead of making their own custom translation of hebrew scripture.

 

[vern_humphrey]

That’s true, but in my opinion, when writing a gospel in greek, the author is going to reference the accepted greek version of the OT translations, instead of making their own custom translation of hebrew scripture.

Perhaps. But given the wide-spread use of the Septuagint, it is not all impossible that Jesus would use it. One good reason was that only scholars spoke Hebrew in those days, and reading the Hebrew text would have left many listeners out in the cold,

 

[irenaeuslyons]

irenaeuslyons:

That’s true, but in my opinion, when writing a gospel in greek, the author is going to reference the accepted greek version of the OT translations, instead of making their own custom translation of hebrew scripture.

Perhaps. But given the wide-spread use of the Septuagint, it is not all impossible that Jesus would use it. One good reason was that only scholars spoke Hebrew in those days, and reading the Hebrew text would have left many listeners out in the cold,

Oh I agree, its possible. I think we all are in one of those gray areas where we just don’t have enough information, and never really will.

 

[PennyinCanada]

When you sit down with a bible and ask the Holy Spirit to come and be with you as you read the Gospels, the Holy Spirit is not going to have a problem with the gospel of Mark.

 

[Tolle_Lege]

When the Church assembled the Canon of Scripture, she could have easily included just one Gospel to avoid the alleged “contradictions” among the four. But she maintained all four because they are Apostolic in origin and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gorgias]

irenaeuslyons:

It’s likely that Jesus did not speak greek at all.

You underestimate Jesus. What language do you then think he spoke with Pilate during his trial?

Well… my Bible seems to assert that they conversed in English…

Sorry but that doesn’t make sense. During the trial, not only the high priests and Pharisees but the common Jews understood what was being said and shouted. So to me, Latin is the least likely.

Imagine a modern context: in what language do trials in the U.S. take place? Are interpreters available for those for whom their native language is not English?

 

[C.Longinus]

Imagine a modern context: in what language do trials in the U.S. take place? Are interpreters available for those for whom their native language is not English?

It’s known that Greek was the language of the Roman courts. Those who were in the court of Pilate were chief priests, scribes, Temple guards, and other employees.

 

[englands123]

It’s important to remember all Four Gospels were inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16)

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

All four Authors had different audiences and backgrounds.

Matthew was writing to a Hebrew audience.

Mark wrote for a Gentile audience.

Luke, the “beloved physician” ([Colossians 4:14) evangelist, and companion of the apostle Paul, is the only Gentile author of the New Testament.

The gospel of John, is distinct from the other three Gospels and contains much theological content in regard to the person of Christ and the meaning of faith. Matthew, Mark, and Luke are referred to as the “Synoptic Gospels” because of their similar styles and content and because they give a synopsis of the life of Christ. The gospel of John begins not with Jesus’ birth or earthly ministry but with the activity and characteristics of the Son of God before He became man !

Basically what I am saying is…

If four adults from completely different backgrounds gave let’s say the exact same answers sheet in to a exam or evidence in a court of law the exact same.

Which accounts would you trust ?
The four identical ones or the four who basically say the same thing but from different points of view.

They are not the same for a good reason in my opinion.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Oh I agree, its possible. I think we all are in one of those gray areas where we just don’t have enough information, and never really will.

Of course. We’re simply speculating. But when speculating, we cannot dismiss other positions as “mere speculation.”

 

[irenaeuslyons]

Gorgias:

Imagine a modern context: in what language do trials in the U.S. take place? Are interpreters available for those for whom their native language is not English?

It’s known that Greek was the language of the Roman courts. Those who were in the court of Pilate were chief priests, scribes, Temple guards, and other employees.

All administrative, legislative, and military communication was in latin within the Roman Empire. The legacy of which is still with us today in legal, military and administrative terms. The byzantine east did eventually replace it with greek, but that was centuries after Constantine.

 

[Bithynian]

All administrative, legislative, and military communication was in latin within the Roman Empire. The legacy of which is still with us today in legal, military and administrative terms. The byzantine east did eventually replace it with greek, but that was centuries after Constantine.

Most - but not all - local civil and legal administration in Roman Judaea was conducted in Greek.

A few excerpts from William Smelik’s (Prof of Hebrew and Aramaic, University of London) ‘Languages of Roman Palestine’ in the Oxford Handbook of Jewish Daily Life in Roman Palestine:

“In the process of Hellenization, Greek replaced Aramaic as the administrative language of choice, and this phenomenon continued during the Roman period.”

“While the Romans did not impose their own language upon any of their subjects, they published their imperial decrees in the new lingua franca of Greek in the eastern part of the empire.”

Two (relatively) recent scholarly articles discussing this include Cotton’s (1999) ‘The Languages of the Legal and Administrative Documents from the Judaean Desert’ and Charlesowrth’s (2014) ‘Recognizing Greek Literacy in Early Documents from the Judaean Desert’.

 

[Gorgias]

C.Longinus:

Gorgias:

Imagine a modern context: in what language do trials in the U.S. take place? Are interpreters available for those for whom their native language is not English?

It’s known that Greek was the language of the Roman courts. Those who were in the court of Pilate were chief priests, scribes, Temple guards, and other employees.

All administrative, legislative, and military communication was in latin within the Roman Empire. The legacy of which is still with us today in legal, military and administrative terms. The byzantine east did eventually replace it with greek, but that was centuries after Constantine.

To be fair, the question was whether Jesus could participate in His own trial. Whether it was conducted in Latin, Greek, Aramaic, or the Queen’s English, are we really saying that either (1) Jesus didn’t understand it at all or (2) someone wouldn’t have interpreted for him?

 

[irenaeuslyons]

irenaeuslyons:

All administrative, legislative, and military communication was in latin within the Roman Empire. The legacy of which is still with us today in legal, military and administrative terms. The byzantine east did eventually replace it with greek, but that was centuries after Constantine.

Most - but not all - local civil and legal administration in Roman Judaea was conducted in Greek.

A few excerpts from William Smelik’s (Prof of Hebrew and Aramaic, University of London) ‘Languages of Roman Palestine’ in the Oxford Handbook of Jewish Daily Life in Roman Palestine:

“In the process of Hellenization, Greek replaced Aramaic as the administrative language of choice, and this phenomenon continued during the Roman period.”

“While the Romans did not impose their own language upon any of their subjects, they published their imperial decrees in the new lingua franca of Greek in the eastern part of the empire.”

Two (relatively) recent scholarly articles discussing this include Cotton’s (1999) ‘The Languages of the Legal and Administrative Documents from the Judaean Desert’ and Charlesowrth’s (2014) ‘Recognizing Greek Literacy in Early Documents from the Judaean Desert’.

Thanks for that, I will add it to my reading list.

 

[Gorgias]

“While the Romans did not impose their own language upon any of their subjects, they published their imperial decrees in the new lingua franca of Greek in the eastern part of the empire.”

Umm… “publish[ing] imperial decrees” and ‘conducting oral trial proceedings’ are two distinct things, aren’t they?