Is the Ordination of Women even possible?

[LucyLight]

Why would a woman want to be ordained? I think some feminist women use this argument to make women of catholic faith seem less important. But really, God blessed us with the most important blessing of all: to give life. In a way, God the Creator of heaven and earth, gave us women the ability to create as well. Obviously men have half a part in the actual creation of humans D) but we are the ones who carry our little humans for month, and even after birth are made to be able to give life to infants through milk! Aren’t we special

Also, if we take a look at a woman we know that woman are full of mercy, love, compassion and tend to lead with our hearts. Often times our hearts lead us astray from what is true. Not that men are less at fault then women (although we sure like to hold ourselves at a higher place …

If you really thing of how amazing and graceful and wonderful it is to be a women…you start to really realize why it would be inappropriate to be ordained as a priest…

Everyone has they’re job. Catholic men aren’t making any attempt to take away our women rights like the rights to bear children, breast feed and such (and make attempts to do that themselves…), so perhaps we should show a little humility and let them take there place as well.

There is always a way to serve God though, being a nun isn’t an old way of life. If you want to dedicate your life to God and the saving of others, there is other ways you can serve

Hope that helps! Always nice to have a woman’s’ perspective!/QUOT

aaaahhh! can we not start with another thread about the differences between men and women. I don’t know of any woman or man who actually wants to be priest (other than a family member who is soon to be one)

So creating this fake scenario that women are lining up for the priesthood and need to know their place is creating an issue where there isn’t one. The only people that I see having an issue with it are non-Cathoics so they aren’t lining up either.

To answer the question anything is possible. God created everything and can change anything. However, thats not how God has set up his church so a woman being ordained would be invalid.

 

[LucyLight]

Why would a woman want to be ordained? I think some feminist women use this argument to make women of catholic faith seem less important. But really, God blessed us with the most important blessing of all: to give life. In a way, God the Creator of heaven and earth, gave us women the ability to create as well. Obviously men have half a part in the actual creation of humans D) but we are the ones who carry our little humans for month, and even after birth are made to be able to give life to infants through milk! Aren’t we special

Also, if we take a look at a woman we know that woman are full of mercy, love, compassion and tend to lead with our hearts. Often times our hearts lead us astray from what is true. Not that men are less at fault then women (although we sure like to hold ourselves at a higher place …

If you really thing of how amazing and graceful and wonderful it is to be a women…you start to really realize why it would be inappropriate to be ordained as a priest…

Everyone has they’re job. Catholic men aren’t making any attempt to take away our women rights like the rights to bear children, breast feed and such (and make attempts to do that themselves…), so perhaps we should show a little humility and let them take there place as well.

There is always a way to serve God though, being a nun isn’t an old way of life. If you want to dedicate your life to God and the saving of others, there is other ways you can serve

Hope that helps! Always nice to have a woman’s’ perspective!

Sorry I just realized that you are new here and probably not aware of how these types of issues tend to derail threads and get pretty negative. So again sorry If i came off as harsh

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Because a man becomes a monk.

A nun is nothing more than a female monastic. The title for a male monastic is monk. Many of the Eastern Orthodox Churches call both male and female monastics monks.

The religious life is not viewed as a Sacrament by the Church. Both men and women can make vows.

It is a false analogy to compare priests who are in major Holy Orders and nuns who are consecrated religious as there are male consecrated religious.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[curlycool89]

Now somebody correct me if i’m wrong here but i watched something with Cardinal Timothy Dolan and a man that is a monk his name was fr. Benedict Groeschel on the hhs mandate but you know cardinal dolan he was talking to him and got off track and talked about cardinals he said women could be come them. Apparently mother teresa was asked to become one but she turned it down and i was also told that its not a form of holy orders. I absolutely love watching Cardinal Dolan because he is funny and really down to earth and he mentioned that and i thought well thats cool. I’m pretty sure its true but it may not be some one correct me if i’m wrong i never really looked into it.

Cardinals are an invention of the Church; it’s an office. One does not need to be a bishop to be a cardinal (there are priests who are cardinals), or even be a priest. Current Canon Law limits cardinals to priests or bishops, but in theory a women could become a cardinal.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I’m pretty sure I rarely agree with you, but that’s a funny and illustrative way of putting it, and mostly accurate (not completely, in the fact that no “ordination” ever came out of the bishop’s hands, nor did the Holy Spirit ever descend). For all practical purposes, you can visualize it in such a way and be spot-on.

There are some seemingly-good philosophical arguments for women being priests, based on the analogy of, if a woman is ontologically capable of being baptized, by definition, she is ontologically capable of being ordained, but they fall short (not always in terms of philosophy, but in terms of theology, Christian truth, and Biblical hermeneutics: as St Paul was so vehement and eloquent about, Christianity is not just another philosophy; it is not irrational, but supra-rational).

If someone speaks to the ontological capability of baptism in women, and compares it to being ordained, you are speaking with someone who is a very educated and sophisticated defender of the simulation of ordination of women (such as Luke Timothy Johnson, who is an excellent exegete).

Onthological means God-willing or God-notwilling.
I do not think God wants women to be priests. If Jesus wanted that, He would have ordained women. And the argument that those were bad times for women it does not stick for if God could ressurrect from the dead could make women priests. If Jesus could change bread into his body and Blood could make women priests.
What amazes me most in the Protestant is that they want women ordained priests but at the same time abhor the role of Mary on Redemption. contradictory!

 

[SilverGracie]

Consider that a priest is mystically married to the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ. Woman cannot be married to the Bride of Christ for obvious reasons.

This idea seems to be more metaphorical than anything else. Consider that Sisters and nuns are said to be married to Christ, but we still allow men to become Brothers without claiming that they cannot be married to Christ for obvious reasons.

 

[Khalid]

Cardinals are an invention of the Church; it’s an office. One does not need to be a bishop to be a cardinal (there are priests who are cardinals), or even be a priest. Current Canon Law limits cardinals to priests or bishops, but in theory a women could become a cardinal.

There were, in the recent past, lay cardinals as well. Or cardinals who were deacons. However, the titles “Cardinal-Priest” and “Cardinal-Bishop” are about seniority in the College: today, all “Cardinal-Priests” are bishops, but less senior in the College of Cardinals than Cardinal-Bishops (I believe Cardinal-Priests become Cardinal-Bishops after ten years).

 

[Khalid]

Ontological means God-willing or God-notwilling.!

LOL, that’s about the simplest and most thoroughly theistic way I’ve ever heard ontology described. :clapping:

 

[62Joy]

It is my understanding that the primary argument against Ordaining women is that Jesus did not pick any women as His disciples. That is a weak argument as the culture that Jesus lived in looked at women as second class citizens. The church has for a long time been a “man’s club” and has only in recent times showed much respect for ordinary women. People will say, “what about Mary”…well Mary was anything but ordinary.

Back in the 50’s - early 60’s, I remember that women were not allowed to walk up the steps to the altar (Unless it was to clean and change linens). Their role as Eucharistic Ministers is recent as is the role of female altar servers. The Church could have used the reasoning that “Jesus did not have any women at the Last Supper” to disallow women Eucharistic Ministers as well. But I believe that need becomes the creator of invention - and the shortage of priests and men to deliver the Eucharist to shut-ins, etc. probably influenced that change. I also think that will be the reason for eventually ordaining married priests. I’m convinced that the reason we don’t have them now is based solely on finance. It is just cheaper to support a single man than a family. The whole financial system of the church would have to change.

I don’t think women priests would ever happen under this Pope but I do feel that somewhere down the line the Church will have to ordain women. It won’t be in my life time but it will happen and when it does, I believe the laity will benefit greatly.

 

[curlycool89]

I don’t think women priests would ever happen under this Pope but I do feel that somewhere down the line the Church will have to ordain women. It won’t be in my life time but it will happen and when it does, I believe the laity will benefit greatly.

Bl. John Paul II infallibly disagrees with you.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

LOL, that’s about the simplest and most thoroughly theistic way I’ve ever heard ontology described. :clapping:

Of course, I was wrong and thanks to God you understood it.
But people forget that God has a will.
So, onthologically, Jesus was able to marry, but God wanted Him not.
Mary was able to be non-virgin and be the Mother of God, but God did not want to.
Women, of course, may be priests and bishops and Pope. Actually, as a man, I find that they are more beautiful than men, though I find an “aura” of beauty in the Popes. But Jesus decided only to choose men. It is useless to picket Jesus with shouting slogans. No way He will change His mind.

People tend to think that God is a machine. If it can be, then it is, people think. They forget that if it can be, but maybe God does not want it to be…

Sometimes we forget that God has a will, God is a Thinking and Willing Entity that may choose things that for us are irrational.

Like the worst of all…asking His Son , His beloved Son, to die in a cross. I will NEVER understand that. I am asked, I think, to accept…which is hard for me to do , so.

 

[Cominghome89]

Now somebody correct me if i’m wrong here but i watched something with Cardinal Timothy Dolan and a man that is a monk his name was fr. Benedict Groeschel on the hhs mandate but you know cardinal dolan he was talking to him and got off track and talked about cardinals he said women could be come them. Apparently mother teresa was asked to become one but she turned it down and i was also told that its not a form of holy orders. I absolutely love watching Cardinal Dolan because he is funny and really down to earth and he mentioned that and i thought well thats cool. I’m pretty sure its true but it may not be some one correct me if i’m wrong i never really looked into it.

I’ve never even heard this mentioned, so I thought I’d briefly check the canon law. I’m no expert, but this seems clear enough:

Can. 351 §1. The Roman Pontiff freely selects men to be promoted as cardinals, who have been ordained at least into the order of the presbyterate and are especially outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence in action; those who are not yet bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

The Pope freely selects men, so I guess the answer is no.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank

 

[minii]

i hope so,http://www.cx-7.info/g.gif

 

[Rence]

I dont care if its Biblical or not, I just want to know if its possible.

If the Pope ordained a woman, could that woman be ordained validly?

I understand completely that Woman Ordinations are out of the question in the Catholic Church because Jesus never ordained woman.

All I am asking is if it is even possible to ordain women?

Thank you.

Anything is possible, especially with God. What it would take is a new understanding, or a gleaning of new information, available to the Pope in order to make that happen. At the moment, all the information available, and the current understanding of it now, tells the Pope that it’s not allowed, and he in turn communicates that to us. I know we won’t see that happen anytime soon. But I expect it to happen someday and I’d be totally fine with it And since Jesus said the gates of Hell would never prevail, and that Peter holds the keys, I wouldn’t question it for a second But I’d totally expect a lot of drama and “He must be a heretic, because this is unacceptable” from the opposite corner. But that’s normal whenever there’s change, especially big change.

 

[curlycool89]

Anything is possible, especially with God. What it would take is a new understanding, or a gleaning of new information, available to the Pope in order to make that happen. At the moment, all the information available, and the current understanding of it now, tells the Pope that it’s not allowed, and he in turn communicates that to us. I know we won’t see that happen anytime soon. But I expect it to happen someday and I’d be totally fine with it And since Jesus said the gates of Hell would never prevail, and that Peter holds the keys, I wouldn’t question it for a second But I’d totally expect a lot of drama and “He must be a heretic, because this is unacceptable” from the opposite corner. But that’s normal whenever there’s change, especially big change.

And the Holy Spirit (God) has already declared through the Catholic Church (through Bl. John Paul II) that “Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”

Not no authority now, but no authority whatsoever. Ever. And this is to be held by all the faithful. The CDF has analyzed this letter, and declared this teaching to be infallible. It will not change, and people should stop assuming that it will change in the future.

 

[Elizium23]

I’ve never even heard this mentioned, so I thought I’d briefly check the canon law. I’m no expert, but this seems clear enough:

Can. 351 §1. The Roman Pontiff freely selects men to be promoted as cardinals, who have been ordained at least into the order of the presbyterate and are especially outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence in action; those who are not yet bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

The Pope freely selects men, so I guess the answer is no.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank

But since the Holy Father is the supreme lawgiver, he can freely change Canon Law at his whim, and the restriction of the cardinalate to men is only a matter of discipline and law, not a matter of theology. But I expect it is more likely that we would see laymen appointed cardinals than we would see women for all the chaos it would cause.

 

[Quarles47]

To find out when women will be ordain, check the Weather Channel. When the Weather Channel reports that Hell has frozen over then you can look forward to the ordination of woman. :hey_bud:

 

[Cominghome89]

But since the Holy Father is the supreme lawgiver, he can freely change Canon Law at his whim, and the restriction of the cardinalate to men is only a matter of discipline and law, not a matter of theology. But I expect it is more likely that we would see laymen appointed cardinals than we would see women for all the chaos it would cause.

I understand that canon law can change, but the poster had said that he heard Cardinal Dolan say that women can be made Cardinals, and that Mother Teresa was offered the red hat…since canon law says the Holy Father can make men cardinals, it would follow that this is not true. It’s also pretty likely that Cardinal Dolan knows canon law better than a seminarian who just did a quick search, and wouldn’t say something like this I wasn’t saying it’s a matter of infallible theology (to my knowledge, it’s never come up, so there’s no need to declare something like this infallibly).

If the poster or anyone else does find this interview with Cardinal Dolan, I’d be interested to see a link or some reference. I just can’t imagine he’d say that.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank

 

[Khalid]

To find out when women will be ordain, check the Weather Channel. When the Weather Channel reports that Hell has frozen over then you can look forward to the ordination of woman. :hey_bud:

Better, when MSNBC announces the Parousia a week after the fact.

 

[ryecroft]

What I don’t understand about this is that as far as my scholarly research goes (and I did study for a Masters in Ecclesiastical History) - women were ordained as deacons up until the 9th century. Mostly this was in the Eastern Church (the one’s we know of for sure) - but the church wasn’t seperated until after the ‘schism’ -and that wasn’t until 1054 I believe. So why were women able to be Deacons but not Priests - I thought the whole laying on of hands and everything was the same for the men as the women.
And I have a very hard time believing that only men were present at the last supper - someone had to be creating and serving the meal - likely women. I’m not going against the Church with this - it does encourage us to question -(nor am I saying I want to be a Priest or anything - I just find it interesting)- just that it seems like there were some pretty good arguments that at one time at least there were at the very LEAST female Deacons.

God Bless
Rye