Is The Orthodox Church on the brink of even more schisming?

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2ndGen

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“Disclosures of a serious rift between the Orthodox Patriarchs of Constantinople and Moscow
and serious divisions among Orthodox leaders in America demonstrate the ‘urgent need for a Pan-Orthodox Synod,’ Orthodox Christian Laity declared in a prepared statement released today.”

“The members of Orthodox Christian Laity were deeply disappointed to learn
that continuing tensions between Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople and Alexy ll, Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia over jurisdictional matters in Europe have increased dramatically much to the detriment of Orthodoxy everywhere,” said Peter Haikalis, President of OCL, an independent Orthodox movement in America."

I guess Jesus was right…

Matthew 7:
26.
"And whoever listens to these words of mine and does not perform them,
resembles the foolish man who builds his house on sand,
27.
“And the rains came down and the floods came down
and the winds blew and drove against the house
and [the house] fell down and its fall was great.”
 
This is nothing new.

Mosccw and Constantinople have been in you-know-whatting contests for years.
 
bpbasilphx said:
This is nothing new.

Mosccw and Constantinople have been in you-know-whatting contests for years.
Click to expand...
But it’ been represented to me that they are one unified group in complete harmony giving each other “gifts”.

🤷

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not dancing on anybody’s graves here,
but how can they criticize any other religion while they can’t even be at peace with themselves today?
 
2ndGen said:
But it’ been represented to me that they are one unified group in complete harmony giving each other “gifts”.
Click to expand...
I don’t know who gave you this representation, but it is common knowledge that this is far from the truth. “Turf Wars” are the bane of Orthodoxy. One church says, “We control this see by historical claim” and another says, "We control all (fill in the blank)-speaking adherents by historical claim. Then there are the cases where new countries like Montenegro and Eritrea are created, followed by their desire for an autocephalous church.

Personally, I like Bart. Alex needs to be put in his place.
 
Deusdonat said:
I don’t know who gave you this representation, but it is common knowledge that this is far from the truth. “Turf Wars” are the bane of Orthodoxy. One church says, “We control this see by historical claim” and another says, "We control all (fill in the blank)-speaking adherents by historical claim. Then there are the cases where new countries like Montenegro and Eritrea are created, followed by their desire for an autocephalous church.

Personally, I like Bart. Alex needs to be put in his place.
Click to expand...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You mean like in the picture in my signature?
 
We Catholics have our own schisms too, but in our case it is always one group rejecting a binding authority. The problem with the Orthodox is that they have adopted an almost exclusively eucharistic ecclesiology with little or no universal ecclesology (the Catholic Church has both)–they have no binding authority over the whole Church anymore–every bishop, or at least every patriarch, is equal to all the others.

The closest thing they have is a pan-Orthodox Council–but one need only look at the history of those (especially in the 1700s) to see how non-binding and mutable they are even in matters of faith and morals.
 
2ndGen said:
…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not dancing on anybody’s graves here,
but how can they criticize any other religion while they can’t even be at peace with themselves today?
Click to expand...
If you are catholic, then this statement is inconsistent. The Orthodox are of the same religion as we are. Their sacraments are valid, their apostolic succession intact. From our point of view, they aren’t criticizing another religion, they are criticizing elements of their OWN (although THEY often don’t see us as part of their own which makes for many headaches in conversation).

Surely an astute OC poster might wryly wonder why they have now been banished to the “Non-catholic religions” forum then, but this had more to do with practical management of a raucus forum than formal theological definitions.

I know where you are coming from as I’ve seen my fair share of Orthodox postings gloating about disarray in the catholic church. But returning the same treatment isn’t likely to help the problem…
 
2ndGen said:
But it’ been represented to me that they are one unified group in complete harmony giving each other “gifts”.

🤷

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not dancing on anybody’s graves here,
but how can they criticize any other religion while they can’t even be at peace with themselves today?
Click to expand...
Our peace is defined by our common Eucharist. The MP and EP still commemorate each other in the diptychs and are still in communion. Practically every post on this thread demonstrates a colossal ignorance of the Orthodox Church, we’re not Latins you shouldn’t expect us to behave as like we are. One shouldn’t expect disagrement between Catholic bishops, after all the Latins only have one true hierarch the rest are just glorified priests.

BTW not to dance on anyone’s grave but I’ll take a little squabbling among two hierarchs to the clown masses, the desecrating of the Precious Body of Christ by laymen receiving in the hand, the abomination of the Novus Ordo and every other innovation the Latin Church has introduced in the past centuries anyday. 😃
 
2ndGen said:
:rotfl:

youtube.com/watch?v=DQtyy_D8xQY&feature=related

Yeah…you’re probably a Patriats Fan too!

😃

But this one is sad…

youtube.com/watch?v=kmhCkPYtuuY
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You have oasted (something that you are good at) that this was a structured thread, unlike your “unstructured thread.”

What does any of this to do with your OP?

Btw, I’ve posted that you Latins join in the fun in the Holy Land. I’ve seen it first hand. Yes, pretty disgraceful.

How do you manage with that log?

Yes, said, but what’s your point (btw I know the person who runs the youth camps and other social services in Kosovo for the Albanian Orthodox Church).
 
josephdaniel29 said:
Our peace is defined by our common Eucharist. The MP and EP still commemorate each other in the diptychs and are still in communion. Practically every post on this thread demonstrates a colossal ignorance of the Orthodox Church, we’re not Latins you shouldn’t expect us to behave as like we are. One shouldn’t expect disagrement between Catholic bishops, after all the Latins only have one true hierarch the rest are just glorified priests.

BTW not to dance on anyone’s grave but I’ll take a little squabbling among two hierarchs to the clown masses, the desecrating of the Precious Body of Christ by laymen receiving in the hand, the abomination of the Novus Ordo and every other innovation the Latin Church has introduced in the past centuries anyday. 😃
Click to expand...
Yes, the ultramontanists committed hirikihi. Fortunately they still have good faithful Christians in their communion who keep it together.
 
josephdaniel29 said:
BTW not to dance on anyone’s grave but I’ll take a little squabbling among two hierarchs to the clown masses, the desecrating of the Precious Body of Christ by laymen receiving in the hand, the abomination of the Novus Ordo and every other innovation the Latin Church has introduced in the past centuries anyday. 😃
Click to expand...
I’ll say this… what were the directions of Christ when he instituted the Eucharist? Does any one of them include the laity shall not touch my body with their hands? I’ll answer for you, no, it doesn’t give us that direction. So it comes down to a matter of discipline and tradition which fortunately enough the Church dictates.

Do you have any reason to believe Christ does not like the Novus Ordo by quote or otherwise?
 
josephdaniel29 said:
You do realize those aren’t Orthodox bishops bowing to the Pope don’t you?
Click to expand...
Yes, 2nd is all the reason we need to tell why uniatism is not the way to go. And 2nd is NOT talking about sui juris, as a ultramontanists he is insisting on uniatisim.

To get somewhat back on topic, 2nd is a good indication of why Alexei isn’t going to allow a toehold into Russia, no matter what Bart might do.
 
cascherman said:
I’ll say this… what were the directions of Christ when he instituted the Eucharist? Does any one of them include the laity shall not touch my body with their hands? I’ll answer for you, no, it doesn’t give us that direction. So it comes down to a matter of discipline and tradition which fortunately enough the Church dictates.

Do you have any reason to believe Christ does not like the Novus Ordo by quote or otherwise?
Click to expand...
When Ezekiel goes to the temple, the priests turn their back and worship something else. The Orthodox, and the traditionalists in Rome face God…
 
manualman said:
If you are catholic, then this statement is inconsistent. The Orthodox are of the same religion as we are. Their sacraments are valid, their apostolic succession intact. From our point of view, they aren’t criticizing another religion, they are criticizing elements of their OWN (although THEY often don’t see us as part of their own which makes for many headaches in conversation).

Surely an astute OC poster might wryly wonder why they have now been banished to the “Non-catholic religions” forum then, but this had more to do with practical management of a raucus forum than formal theological definitions.

I know where you are coming from as I’ve seen my fair share of Orthodox postings gloating about disarray in the catholic church. But returning the same treatment isn’t likely to help the problem…
Click to expand...
Hi Manny,

I wasn’t calling the kettle black.

That post was in response to someone who was using Orthodox unity as a “proof” of their Church being the true Church and as our Church “not” being the true Church.

Sure, we want to be a shining example of Christianity, but not at te expense of truth.

It’s always been my belief (until I was confronted by “some” American Orthoodx Christians here) that they were our little brothers (just as Andrew who founded their Church was the little brother of Peter who founded our Church).

This is why I always use the capitol “C” when I write about them as The Orthodox Church, or when I say “your Church” to one of them. I have that respect. Their the ones who discount us.

I’ve just come across beliefs that I never heard before regarding Orthodox Churches (such as their “infallible” unity, the perfection in the development of doctrine, such as their immaculate record on “never” changing doctrinal beliefs, etc…).

I have to ask those who attack The Catholic Church, how they could do that when they are far from an example of Christian perfection. They dwell in ancient history as far as The Church’s faults are where I can point out current and recent events that soundly prove them wrong on their opinion that they are perfect and have the right to pass judgement.

🙂
 
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