Is the Pill an abortifacient or not?

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Texas_Roofer said:
That part was excellent can I add that to catholics in communion with the church the issue is moot?
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Amen to both comments. We’d be thrilled to know that more babies aren’t being murdered no matter how inintentionally.

It’s bad enought that contraception distorts the meaning of the marital act .
 
Texas_Roofer said:
In this case “make believe”
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Umm, everyone knows breakthrough ovulation occurs. Experts agree that oral contraceptives have a 3rd mechanism of action that thins the endometrium. Are you trying to dispute that? It has been listed on the package insert for years.
 
mmm1 said:
Umm, everyone knows breakthrough ovulation occurs. Experts agree that oral contraceptives have a 3rd mechanism of action that thins the endometrium. Are you trying to dispute that? It has been listed on the package insert for years.
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Actually experts say the “mechanism of action” is unclear. However the auto mechanic may have an opinion should we ask him, would his opinion be significantly different? In 40 plus years of use not a single abortific case has been documented, yet many Catholics feel confident to claim :
*
these forms of birth control take an estimated 8.1 to 12.75 million lives each year in the US alone. Contraceptives also cause abortions through their failures. All contraceptives fail, some quite often. Even surgical sterilization has a failure rate. Each “failure” results in a new human life, a new baby, an actual woman facing an unplanned and often unwanted pregnancy. These pregnancies are at risk for abortion.*omsoul.com/contraception-problems.php

The fact is Catholics are not to misled the catechism is clear on that
 
From an COC Product Info
COCs act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include changes in the cervical mucus (which increase the difficulty of sperm entry into the uterus) and the endometrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation).
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The changes in the endometrium are documented, but there is no evidence this has ever prevented implantation. Based on what is known about reproduction and the mechanisms of gonadotropins suppression (all indirect evidence), it is possible the changes in the endometrium may prevent ovulation. There seems to be at least an association between the endometrium and implantation (at least that is what the REs and infertility experts explained when DH & I were seeking infertiity treatment). This “association” is why the product info includes this as a mechanism of action rather than a side effect. Common sense tells us if the pill alters the endometrium (as documented) AND the endometrium plays a role in implantation (as believed by REs, etc.) then it is possible implantation may be prevented.

Does anyone if implantation has ever been prevented? No. Do we now what happens in ovulatory pill cycles? Not all of them…some result in babies. I agree possible or potential abortifacient is a more accurate description since no one can prove the pill doesn’t prevent implantation. Keep in mind no one can prove the pill doesn’t prevent implantation (at this time anyway).
I would think the doctors would know which pill would not cause an abortion.
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All COCs list the changes in the endometrium as a mechanism of gonadotropin suppression.
can I add that to catholics in communion with the church the issue is moot?
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Yep. Just my :twocents: . Though it is a starting point in discussing why the pill is not ok.
 
Thanks to all of you who have passed along your wisdom and education, as well as your faith!! My son is 24, as is his girlfriend, and believe me, he has been taught the beauty and sacredness of married sex. However I suppose that it is very hard for the two of them, as it is, I suspect, for many of our young Catholics, to not succumb to the cultural messages and media bull**** that is fed to them on a daily basis. I know that he feels that he is a good Catholic,(and he truly is) : he loves the Mass, he reads the bible, prays for those in need, etc. And I know that my son is in a monogamous relationship, and I believe that this is his first and only partner. However, I had to tell him in no uncertain terms that his soul, his girlfriend’s soul, and my soul, if I am quiet, is in jeopardy, not to mention the fact that I could have grandchildren aborted that I never even got to love. I don’t have time to pussyfoot around, and I am not willing to let that happen if I can help it. That’s what a mother does for her children, however unpopular she may become…SOOO… I will forward the (name removed by moderator)ut you all have given me to him, and I believe that it will help him to make a more holy decision. Deo Gratias!! Kathy
 
marmee7 said:
I don’t have time to pussyfoot around, and I am not willing to let that happen if I can help it.
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AMEN!

Well, since your son is 24, let me suggest the following:

The Contraception, Why Not CD (there’s also a DVD version but the CD is free)

The Good News About Sex and Marriage and Theology of the Body for Beginners by Christopher West

There’s also a book called Not Ready For Marriage, Not Ready for Sex on OM Soul. It’s subtitled One Couple’s Return to Chastity. I haven’t read it, but it might be good for them since they are sexually active. And, another one that looks promising is their CD/booklet called Reaching the Cafeteria Catholic.

Call OM Soul and talk with their staff, they are very helpful and might be able to recommend specific titles.
 
marmee7 said:
Thanks to all of you who have passed along your wisdom and education, as well as your faith!! My son is 24, as is his girlfriend, and believe me, he has been taught the beauty and sacredness of married sex. However I suppose that it is very hard for the two of them, as it is, I suspect, for many of our young Catholics, to not succumb to the cultural messages and media bull**** that is fed to them on a daily basis. I know that he feels that he is a good Catholic,(and he truly is) : he loves the Mass, he reads the bible, prays for those in need, etc. And I know that my son is in a monogamous relationship, and I believe that this is his first and only partner. However, I had to tell him in no uncertain terms that his soul, his girlfriend’s soul, and my soul, if I am quiet, is in jeopardy, not to mention the fact that I could have grandchildren aborted that I never even got to love. I don’t have time to pussyfoot around, and I am not willing to let that happen if I can help it. That’s what a mother does for her children, however unpopular she may become…SOOO… I will forward the (name removed by moderator)ut you all have given me to him, and I believe that it will help him to make a more holy decision. Deo Gratias!! Kathy
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You’re a good Mom. Regardless of whether he heeds your advice, I predict the day will come when your son thanks you for telling him the truth.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
Contraceptives also cause abortions through their failures. All contraceptives fail, some quite often. Even surgical sterilization has a failure rate. Each “failure” results in a new human life, a new baby, an actual woman facing an unplanned and often unwanted pregnancy. These pregnancies are at risk for abortion.omsoul.com/contraception-problems.php

The fact is Catholics are not to misled the catechism is clear on that
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Is this part of the quote talking about the abortifacient effect of contraceptives or the fact that abortion is often used as a back-up contraceptive method when the “primary” method fails?

I’m not sure it’s fair to claim that One More Soul is misleading people. The scientific literature is unclear at this point, and worse yet politically charged.

  1. *]I take very little stock when scientific studies are called poorly done in a politically charged issue. It’s a popular propagandistic method to belittle the evidence of your opponent.
    *]When scientific evidence is contradictory, I would expect Christian physicians and scientists to err on the side of life.
    Ifthe science eventually clearly shows that hormonal contraceptives do not interefere with implantation, I would hope that One More Soul would retract their claims.

    Kudos to you marmee7 for speaking up for the sake of your son! Pray that your son marries this young woman, that they stop contracepting, and that their marriage lasts and grows in love! Natural Family Planning is wonderful for many reasons - I pray that they discover it and live marital chastity.
 
Until more accurate studies are done, the FDA tells the pill manufacturers to remove the statements on the abortifacient mode from the drug information and pre-life doctors are satisfied then I think we have to assume that the drugs do what they are said to do.
 
buffalo said:
Abortifacient action of the Pill
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.
It says manufactures add progesterone only to add these effects is that true?
It says manufactures do not advertise or promote [tell] these issues is that true?
It say woman on the pill cannot have implantation like pill babies] is that true?
It says skipping days or changing time of day causes a 3-5% failure rate is that true?
It says the 3-5% failure rate results in pregnancy [100% direct affect] is that true?
Then it asks how many more fertilized eggs are lost? [well they actually answered that question]

Btw if you read his source you will find many things including this *“Dr. Walt Larimore has told me that whenever he has presented this evidence to audiences of secular physicians, there has been little or no resistance to it. But when he has presented it to Christian physicians there has been substantial resistance.” *

Do not worry the author knows more than these stupid “Christian physicians” so if you believe him you may want to avoid these “Christian physicians” and use the smarter “secular physicians” That way you only have to worry about the bearing false witness thing
 
marmee7 said:
Does the Pill cause abortion when a baby is conceived by not allowing it to implant, or does it not allow to conception to occur at all? I really need to be able to tell my son the truth about the Pill (which his girlfriend is on) but I am not really sure of the answer myself. Thanks so much! Deo Gratias, Kathy
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marmee7,

I would ask your son and girlfriend to listen online to Jason Evert’s speech on Chastity Education. If the can’t listen to the entire talk, fast forward to the one hour mark of the talk to Catholic High School students and listen for 15 minutes…

pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=3

I would also recommend buying them Christopher West’s books, cd’s or dvd’s on the Theology of the Body…

christopherwest.com/

Last, if you ever get a chance to listen to Fr. Thomas Loya teach The Theology of the Body, don’t miss it. He’s another great one. You can hear him at times on Relevant Radio on the internet.

theologyofthebody.net/

byzantinecatholic.com
 
1ke said:
So, even if the doctor admits that the Pill doesn’t prevent ovluation, they will still not call it an abortifacient b/c they will say it “prevents implantation” which they do not consider abortion because they do not consider it a pregnancy yet.
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And this is something we should be adamant about - life begins at CONCEPTION, not implantation. This is the scientific consensus, however, the culture of death is doing its best to change held scientific proof by manipulating people into now believing it begins at implantation.
Remember, no implantation = no abortion, so its pretty convenient for them to redefine science.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
From what I have read, it appears that the common claim that the pill can act as an abortifacient by a small segment of Catholics is incorrect. From what I have read, the science it is based on is not considered well done.
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Um, care to provide a sample of what you’ve read? Or, perhaps, something to back up your assumption that it’s a “small segment of Catholics” that are making this supposedly erroneous “common claim”?

Or are you content just to take more potshots at us?

Peace,
Dante
 
Texas_Roofer said:
Actually experts say the “mechanism of action” is unclear. However the auto mechanic may have an opinion should we ask him, would his opinion be significantly different? In 40 plus years of use not a single abortific case has been documented, yet many Catholics feel confident to claim :
*
these forms of birth control take an estimated 8.1 to 12.75 million lives each year in the US alone*. Contraceptives also cause abortions through their failures. All contraceptives fail, some quite often. Even surgical sterilization has a failure rate. Each “failure” results in a new human life, a new baby, an actual woman facing an unplanned and often unwanted pregnancy. These pregnancies are at risk for abortion.omsoul.com/contraception-problems.php

The fact is Catholics are not to misled the catechism is clear on that
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And how, pray tell, is one to document an instance of the pill aborting an embryo?

And aren’t you Catholic? I could’ve sworn I’d seen you taking the other side of this argument before…perhaps I’m mistaken.

Peace,
Dante
 
SpiritMeadow said:
From what I have read, it appears that the common claim that the pill can act as an abortifacient by a small segment of Catholics is incorrect. From what I have read, the science it is based on is not considered well done.
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There is plenty of literature suggesting the abortifacient mechanism by thinning the endometrial lining exists - but no there is no definitive proof through human study. However, I do find it interesting that one of the treatments for infertility via IVF is to use Viagra to thicken the lining to make it more hospitable for implantation:
ivf-infertility.com/help/news.php
“The reason beyond the use of Viagra was to increase the blood flow to the uterus and to improve both the pattern and thickness of the endometrium.”
 
It says manufactures add progesterone only to add these effects is that true?
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Ugg, I tried the link and get nothing. Please tell me progesterone and progestin aren’t being used interchangeable. Hmmmm… that isn’t what Contraceptive Tech says.
It says manufactures do not advertise or promote [tell] these issues is that true?
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Well, many of the pills list the suppression of ovulation and the thickeing of CM on the patient info but don’t mention the changes in the endometrium. Here are two popular pills, you can answer this yourself:

Yaz is an example:
YAZ, a combination pill, contains two types of hormones, an estrogen and a progestin. Combination pills are the type of birth control pills most commonly prescribed by healthcare professionals. They work in two ways:
  • The body is “tricked” into thinking it is pregnant. This prevents the release of an egg (ovulation). Without an egg to be fertilized, you can’t become pregnant.
  • The cervical mucus is thickened, making it hard for sperm to travel toward the egg and fertilize it, in case an egg is released.
    From Ortho Tryclen
    when you take ORTHO TRI-CYCLEN, which contains 2 types of hormones (norgestimate and ethinyl estradiol), it inhibits this process from occurring and, as a result, no egg is released. It also thickens the cervical mucus, making it difficult for sperm to enter the uterus. So it’s easy for you to prevent pregnancy.

It say woman on the pill cannot have implantation like pill babies] is that true?
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No more true than saying ovulation is impossible or fertile mucus is impossible (pill babies prove the pill failed to suppress gonadotropins which is how it acts).
It says skipping days or changing time of day causes a 3-5% failure rate is that true?
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Maybe there is evidence to support this statement. 🤷 How a woman responds to skipped pills, etc. varies.
It says the 3-5% failure rate results in pregnancy [100% direct affect] is that true?
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:eek:
Then it asks how many more fertilized eggs are lost? [well they actually answered that question]
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No one knows this and yes these statements make me :mad: .

I would like to see a balanced, accurate, factual presentation rather than sensationalization of points. This applies to contraception supporters too.
 
DanteAlighieri said:
And how, pray tell, is one to document an instance of the pill aborting an embryo?
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not how but “WHY”
And aren’t you Catholic? I could’ve sworn I’d seen you taking the other side of this argument before…perhaps I’m mistaken.
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Peace,
Dante
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Which argument? The pill has never, ever, ever, been documented to cause a single abortion, not one, not ever. Maybe this is a confusing statement? However it is a true statement. Wisdom involves separating desire from reality it does not matter what my desires are, the reality is not one, not one single documented abortion.

or did you mean “Why do many Catholics believe the pill is a known abortifacient?” Well it would appear others mislead them.

Btw if you want documentation look at papers signed or issued by MD’s or professional with years of research in the medical field they will clearly acknowledge the facts as mentioned. Notice the comments you read which claim the pill is a known abortifacient do not contain the signatures of such people, in fact most are either issued anonymously or sight the other guy(the author refuses to accept responsibility for the statement)

hope that helps
 
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