Is the Pope Infallible when canonizing a Saint?

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I know the Pope is Infallible, since he has the keys of the kingdom of heaven and has the power of binding and loosing.

When he canonizes a Saint could we say he is infallible in doing so?
For instance lets suppose a person “X” is canonized. Is it possible for that “X” person to be actually in hell?

Canonizing a person means basically to affirm he or she is in heaven, and therefore can function as a mediator or intercessor. So i’m supposing this must require infallibility (since it would be quite dumb to ask someone who is in hell for his or her intercession in a particular situation). That’s pretty much why i’m asking.
 
Jacob50 said:
I know the Pope is Infallible, since he has the keys of the kingdom of heaven and has the power of binding and loosing.

When he canonizes a Saint could we say he is infallible in doing so?
For instance lets suppose a person “X” is canonized. Is it possible for that “X” person to be actually in hell?

Canonizing a person means basically to affirm he or she is in heaven, and therefore can function as a mediator or intercessor. So i’m supposing this must require infallibility (since it would be quite dumb to ask someone who is in hell for his or her intercession in a particular situation). That’s pretty much why i’m asking.
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Yea, I think because it is a teaching matter, it must surely be protected by infallibility.

EDIT:

There is a section specifically titled “Papal infallibility and canonization” on this document which you might find more helpful and detailed

newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm

So according to that, the person is definitely in heaven if canonized.
 
Jacob50 said:
I know the Pope is Infallible, since he has the keys of the kingdom of heaven and has the power of binding and loosing.
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The Pope is not always infallible. I will let those who know more than me explain that. 😃
 
TrueLight said:
The Pope is not always infallible. I will let those who know more than me explain that. 😃
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Yes, but I think with respect to Canonization, it is determined that it is Infallible.

Because to hold up someone bad who went to hell as exemplary and imitation would be … well… bad for the Church 🙂

That being said, not every part of a Saint’s life is worthy of imitation too I guess.
 
Does anyone know if someone can be “Un-beatified”?

The claim seems to be that Infallibility does not extend to that. Wonder if there are historical cases that happened and on what grounds.
 
When you really view the Saints lives, its pretty hard to miss. They never cease to astound me. I watched the Saints Come Alive with St Gemma Galgani tonight. I don’t know how their Holiness could be missed. Simply amazing. This Sister was so Blessed, I would imagine some of them are just automatic.

“St.Gemma began to display signs of the stigmata on June 8, 1899, at the age of twenty-one. She stated that she had spoken with her guardian angel, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and other saints—especially Gabriel of Our Lady of Sorrows.” [Wiki-Pedia]

To actually read or listen to her life and the explaination of these events seriously understates the magnitude of the Grace and Mercy she received.

I often wonder just how many go un-noticed. I would imagine a great deal.
 
passer_by said:
Does anyone know if someone can be “Un-beatified”?

The claim seems to be that Infallibility does not extend to that. Wonder if there are historical cases that happened and on what grounds.
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IK don’tknow of any reversals of Beatification, but many never went further. I think in most cases the matter was dropped because of death or other loss revolutions etc] of the promoters. Someone has to put a lot of manpower and funds into the effort to convince the Church of the cause. The Church is not looking for people to canonize.
 
Along the same lines, if someone is beatified, can the beatification be rescinded and thus the person not actually be canonized a saint?
 
Jacob50 said:
I know the Pope is Infallible, since he has the keys of the kingdom of heaven and has the power of binding and loosing.

When he canonizes a Saint could we say he is infallible in doing so?
For instance lets suppose a person “X” is canonized. Is it possible for that “X” person to be actually in hell?

Canonizing a person means basically to affirm he or she is in heaven, and therefore can function as a mediator or intercessor. So i’m supposing this must require infallibility (since it would be quite dumb to ask someone who is in hell for his or her intercession in a particular situation). That’s pretty much why i’m asking.
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The canonization of a person is an infallible declaration.
 
Jacob50 said:
I know the Pope is Infallible, since he has the keys of the kingdom of heaven and has the power of binding and loosing.

When he canonizes a Saint could we say he is infallible in doing so?
For instance lets suppose a person “X” is canonized. Is it possible for that “X” person to be actually in hell?

Canonizing a person means basically to affirm he or she is in heaven, and therefore can function as a mediator or intercessor. So i’m supposing this must require infallibility (since it would be quite dumb to ask someone who is in hell for his or her intercession in a particular situation). That’s pretty much why i’m asking.
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Canonization is protected by the grace of infallibility because the Church is making a statement of faith that the person is in heaven and she is commanding the faithful to venerate the person as a saint. It’s not a request. It’s a command. Listen carefully to the words fo canonization.
passer_by said:
Does anyone know if someone can be “Un-beatified”?

The claim seems to be that Infallibility does not extend to that. Wonder if there are historical cases that happened and on what grounds.
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A decree of beatification is not retractible. However, if there is doubt on the part of the pope, the case is closed until the doubt is clarified. The clarification may or may not come.

A recent case was one of our Franciscan friars. John Duns Scotus. His case was on the table for several centuries. Finally, Pope Benedict stated that it may resume.

We must keep in mind that a beatification only takes place after there is proof of a heroic life of virtue and a miracle. We can’t undo God’s miracles.

Questions can arise and the Holy Father always has the right to slow or even stop the process.

Popes have also skipped the process entirely. There are four famous cases.

Francis of Assisi
Dominic Guzman
Anthony of Padua
Clare of Assisi

The popes who canonized were their friends. They knew them and knew of their sanctity. They did not need a long drawn out process. After a few inquiries the two popes involved, Gregory IX and Alexander IV stopped the beatification process. There was never a beatification. They proceeded to canonize.

The point is that a beatification is not neccessary. It’s only a step which can be skipped or at which things can stop. It does not really affect the saint whether or not he or she is publicly venerated.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I have never heard of a beatification being recinded. However, as someone else said, there are many cases that never get beyond “Servant of God”, “Venerable” or “Blessed”. That may be because the promoters run out of energy, or because the required miracles and other information needed simply aren’t there (or haven’t happened yet).

Blessed Raymond Lull who was a missionary to North Africa and the Muslims, is an excellent example. He was a very devout man who was actually martyred on one of his missionary trips. However, because he confused some philosophy and theology in his writings, he has never been cannonized.

newadvent.org/cathen/12670c.htm
 
Mrs_Sally said:
I have never heard of a beatification being recinded. However, as someone else said, there are many cases that never get beyond “Servant of God”, “Venerable” or “Blessed”. That may be because the promoters run out of energy, or because the required miracles and other information needed simply aren’t there (or haven’t happened yet).

Blessed Raymond Lull who was a missionary to North Africa and the Muslims, is an excellent example. He was a very devout man who was actually martyred on one of his missionary trips. However, because he confused some philosophy and theology in his writings, he has never been cannonized.

newadvent.org/cathen/12670c.htm
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There have been several cases where there are questions about what the Blessed has said or written. Obviously, the person is deceased, so you can’t ask them to clarify. This happened with St. Maximilian Kolbe. The Devil’s Advocate (now called the Defender of the Faith) charged that Maximilian’s cult to the Blessed Mother bordered on idolatry.

Here is a great example when it is beneficial to start the process while witnesses are alive. Maximilian’s Franciscan brothers were alive, some still are. His students were alive and those who read his writings were alive. They were able to testify what Maximilian actually said about the things the wrote. He wrote using a great deal of allegory and poetic language, but when he taught, there was nothing in his teaching that contradicted the faith, nor was there any error in his teaching on Mary. In fact, he helped the Church, because he provided the language that was necessary to close the discussion on the Assumption.

There have been cases when the writings of a person are confusing and you don’t have living witnesses or commentaries to clarify message and intent.

Many raised concerns and red flags about Pope John Paul and some of his writings and statements. However, the number of witnesses alive, including the pope himself, was enough to settle the questions. I’ve often wondered if one reason that Pope Benedict waved the five-year waiting period. Cardinal Ratzinger was in his late 70s when he was elected. He did not know how long he would be around, but he knew enough about Bl. John Paul’s life and faith to make in a more than credible and reliable witness, the same for Bl. John Paul’s secretary. He’s not a spring chicken.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Pope Benedict has revived the tradition that the Pope proclaims canonizations, but the Congregation for the Causes of Saints proclaims beatifications. One purpose was to emphasize that canonizations are infallible, but beatifications are not.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Pope Benedict has revived the tradition that the Pope proclaims canonizations, but the Congregation for the Causes of Saints proclaims beatifications. One purpose was to emphasize that canonizations are infallible, but beatifications are not.
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Pope Benedict did not revise the tradition. Since the 11th century only popes have decreed canonizations. It was not centralized to enhpasize the infallible nature of canonization. That part was always believed even when bishops decreed the canonization. It was centralized to systematize the process and to unify veneration. There was always a misunderstanding that because St. X was canonized in this country or diocese, those of another country or diocese did not owe him veneration. It created a “your saint vs our saint” culture. We can see this between East and West. The saints are saints, period. But very often, western saints are not venerated by Eastern Catholics and eastern saints are not venerate by Western Catholics.

By centralizing the canonizations, this began to change. Saints are venerated in the universal Church, while devotion is individual or local.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Jacob50 said:
I know the Pope is Infallible, since he has the keys of the kingdom of heaven and has the power of binding and loosing.

When he canonizes a Saint could we say he is infallible in doing so?
For instance lets suppose a person “X” is canonized. Is it possible for that “X” person to be actually in hell?

Canonizing a person means basically to affirm he or she is in heaven, and therefore can function as a mediator or intercessor. So i’m supposing this must require infallibility (since it would be quite dumb to ask someone who is in hell for his or her intercession in a particular situation). That’s pretty much why i’m asking.
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Yes. A Pope is using his apostolic power to ratify that a certain person is in Heaven, he is infallible when canonizing. That’s the short answer to this thread. All the Saints or Blessed are for sure in Heaven. The Church cannot error here, because the Church (infallible) declares it to be true, so you can be sure that that person is for sure in heaven, thus being able to serve us as intercessors.

In fact, this you may want to know also: If a person is canonized, and such person is in the purgatory, such person leaves the purgatory immediately and goes to heaven when being canonized. This happens because the Pope uses the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven he has to open the gates for that person (that was canonized).

Let me state an example using St. Augustine (one of my favorite Saints).
Lets suppose for once that Augustine was in the purgatory yesterday (and has to be there for 3 more months to be purified from his sins). Let’s also suppose St. Augustine was canonized just Today. The Pope uses his apostolic authority (to bind and loose) and the keys he has (Matt 16:19) for Augustine to go to Heaven. When the Pope canonizes Augustine, it declares Augustine to be for sure in Heaven, and that since he lived his life in holiness, can serve us as an example and also as an intercessor because he now is with God. The Church cannot declare someone to be in Heaven (in the case of those who are canonized), and lie at the same time. The Church is infallible. If it says a person is in Heaven, its because that person is for sure in Heaven. Not in Hell, or in the purgatory, but in Heaven. Therefore you can pray to them and ask them for help (sins they are with God).

You can be sure that when a person is canonized, he is in Heaven.
 
JReducation said:
Pope Benedict did not revise the tradition. Since the 11th century only popes have decreed canonizations. It was not centralized to enhpasize the infallible nature of canonization. That part was always believed even when bishops decreed the canonization. It was centralized to systematize the process and to unify veneration. There was always a misunderstanding that because St. X was canonized in this country or diocese, those of another country or diocese did not owe him veneration. It created a “your saint vs our saint” culture. We can see this between East and West. The saints are saints, period. But very often, western saints are not venerated by Eastern Catholics and eastern saints are not venerate by Western Catholics.

By centralizing the canonizations, this began to change. Saints are venerated in the universal Church, while devotion is individual or local.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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One thing that is still not clear to me is:-

Since Beatifications are not infallible, is it possible that the person beatified is actually in hell?

It would seem it must be or Canonization would have followed or there would be no need to ‘further investigate’ right?
 
passer_by said:
One thing that is still not clear to me is:-

Since Beatifications are not infallible, is it possible that the person beatified is actually in hell?

It would seem it must be or Canonization would have followed or there would be no need to ‘further investigate’ right?
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I believe that the Catholic Church teaches that a beatified Saint is in Heaven. Correct me if im wrong but In the Catholic Church to be beatified, a Saint is required one miracle (there have been exceptions made by Popes). Canonization requires 2 (except with Marty’s I believe). A beatified Saint wouldn’t be able to be claimed to be the author of one miracle (normally medical ones) by being in hell. We see this with Pope John II, who was beatified and his miracle was one made with a nun (I think). Beatification is the third of the four steps in the canonization process. A person who is beatified is given the title “Blessed” and is declared to be venerable. That person is for sure in Heaven.
 
ChrisRedfield47 said:
I believe that the Catholic Church teaches that a beatified Saint is in Heaven. Correct me if im wrong but In the Catholic Church to be beatified, a Saint is required one miracle (there have been exceptions made by Popes). Canonization requires 2 (except with Marty’s I believe). A beatified Saint wouldn’t be able to be claimed to be the author of one miracle (normally medical ones) by being in hell. We see this with Pope John II, who was beatified and his miracle was one made with a nun (I think). Beatification is the third of the four steps in the canonization process. A person who is beatified is given the title “Blessed” and is declared to be venerable. That person is for sure in Heaven.
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But if the person is in heaven for sure, doesn’t that automatically mean the person is a saint?
 
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