Is the Pope protesting US policy?

[Hastrman]

And yet, they both spoke out against this war - go figure.

Modified Finagle’s Law: the stupidity of all humans will tend to a maximum.

and all these years they’ve been teaching us it was that assassination in Yugoslavia?

Um…I’m sorry, little boy, I didn’t know I was talking to a sixth grader. If you don’t know the political history of World War I, you don’t get to have an opinion on it.

German expansionism–read Bernhardi!–was a trend for decades, culminating in the invasion of Belgium, with the assassination of the heir apparent of German ally (puppet) Austria as a pretext. Germany gambled on England (where a pacifist platform had just won Parliament) staying out of the war. The decision to declare war passed only by one vote in Parliament, by the way.

Yes - but now you’re just getting personal - ad hominem - heard of it?

No, I’m not. Pacifism in England, as exemplified by Neville Chamberlain’s policy of appeasement, allowed Hitler to get a military buildup underway and annex the Sudetenland, which paved the way for him to invade Poland.

Where’s the ad hominem in that?

In any case, this man seems to be a good successor to Peter and is not influenced by politicians, pressure groups, pretend intellectuals, and other outside distraction that could impede his mission. Viva la Papa!

Viva il Papa–Viva la Papa means “long live the potato”.

 

[rlg94086]

This pope just gets more and more interesting!

Remember the very carefully worded reponse to the Muslim world after he quote a pope from centuries ago? He was diplomatic, but stood his ground.

Also with the Jewish world when some of them were outraged that the Catholics would pray for their conversion. The pope was diplomatic, but did not change our religion to suit anyone else.

So, yes, this latest “scheduling conflict” is in a way “for show”

This pope and the one before him warned of the human tragedy that comes with war, but was ignored by Bush. as I recall this administration even hired lawyers to see how the Iraq thing could fit into the “Just War” principles of the Catholic faith.

All that aside, the Pope is the head of a GLOBAL faith of over 1 billion people. My math is rusty, but I think we only have about 4 to 5 % of that faith here in America. And since the pope’s job is based on the saving of immortal souls, his job is actually way more important than the occupant of Pennsylvania ave. always was - always will be. (IMHO)

So anyway, it was good that number 43 of the USA picked up number 265 of the papal line, and offered him a state dinner, but this pope has people to talk to!

Uh…yeah…like the president…tomorrow. LOL. You guys are reading a lot into the pope’s schedule choices.

 

[po18guy]

Personally, and I realize my personal opinion means nothing, I would like to see the Pope attend the White House dinner. it could easily be seen as a slap int he face…especially after Pres. Bush is meeting him athte airport…something he’s never done before for a visiting leader. I knwo the Pope’s schedule is tight but Pres. Bush is our country’d leader…never to be considered equal to Our Pope, of course, but a leader nonetheless. And after all the effort he’s going through, even though he’s not Catholic. but I’m sure the Pope has his reasons and I pray they are good ones.

DW claims that the President will convert to Catholicism, since his brother already is Catholic, and one of his closest aides is as well. We’ll see.

 

[system]

Modified Finagle’s Law: the stupidity of all humans will tend to a maximum.

You’re calling our last 2 popes stupid - when do you get REALLY insulting?

Um…I’m sorry, little boy, I didn’t know I was talking to a sixth grader.

Oh, right there. Good one. Is that a line from your comics or anime?

Where’s the ad hominem in that?

You can’t be serious.

Do you spend all your time insulting, then not apologizing?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

DW claims that the President will convert to Catholicism, since his brother already is Catholic, and one of his closest aides is as well. We’ll see.

If true, his first penance should be to do about 50 rosaries and 100 Divine Mercy chaplets…on his knees…on pebbles and then to turn himself in to the Hague for trial.

Something nice and medieval or even public…like sitting outside a church in sack cloth and ashes bemoaning the lives of the people he’s responsible for taking.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Surely birthday-party planning for any visiting head of state would be discussed in detail among diplomats from both sides before it was actually planned and made public. The White House must have known the pope wasn’t going to be able to make it, and decided that it still wanted to hold the dinner to show appreciation and respect to the pope.

 

[JTBT]

…pacifism causes wars…

isn’t this another way of saying “War is Peace”? that seems a bit Orwellian

 

[SoCalRC]

I suspect that if the Pope wants to express disapproval of U.S. policies in some manner, he’ll do it straight up, like JPII admonished Mr. & Mrs. Clinton about their pro-abortion policies. Guess all we have to do is listen to what the Pope actually says.

He has expressed disapproval directly on his previous meetings with Bush, or so reported the Vatican on each occassion. And he has reiterated some of the criticisms, like the US failing in its responsibility to persecuted Christians in Iraq, in public statements.

But as Benedict expressed in God is Love, he sees his obligation to unity and peace and a love for all mankind. So even his ‘stern’ comments are typically quite different than the hate rhetoric we are used to hearing from televangelists here. So we have to listen carefully, which was why I posed the question.

The political aspect, which someone raised above, seemed obvious to me. The GOP pays homage to Bob Jone’s Jr. in every national campaign and Hagee’s endorsement was actively sought. Those folks claim we are not Christian. Hagee has claimed that God is even angry at the US for tolerating us. But we are still 1/4 of the population and, generally, conservative leaning on some popular wedge issues. So a big dog and pony show to make nice makes sense.

My question should probably have been better rephrased. Is the Pope just refusing to participate in a US political dog-and-pony show, or is it deeper, a reflection the displeasure which the Vatican’s Secretary of State has noted to the press in the past.

This sort of stuff can seem stupid, but it does matter. For example, the Condi issue I mentioned did not surprise me at all. After all, it was Condi who was publicly dismissive of Pope John Paul II’s concerns about Iraq in 2003, and then was, reportedly, rude and beligerant to the Pope’s envoy, Cardinal Pio Laghi, who was dispatched to the US in a last ditch effort to avoid military conflict.

Of course, more than 5 years later, virtually everything that the Pope predicted has come to pass and everything that Condi predicted has turned out to be false. Evidence, I’d say, that listening to the Pope carefully is very good advice indeed!

 

[JTBT]

My question should probably have been better rephrased. ** Is the Pope just refusing to participate in a US political dog-and-pony show, or is it deeper, a reflection the displeasure which the Vatican’s Secretary of State has noted to the press in the past.**

I think maybe it is a little of both; if the Pope was to be seen as “taking sides” with the Republicans or the Democrats it could only hurt the Catholic Church. as a Baptist I wish the SBC would take a lesson on this issue, that is to say as Christians we need to be in the world and not of it.

 

[po18guy]

If true, his first penance should be to do about 50 rosaries and 100 Divine Mercy chaplets…on his knees…on pebbles and then to turn himself in to the Hague for trial.

Something nice and medieval or even public…like sitting outside a church in sack cloth and ashes bemoaning the lives of the people he’s responsible for taking.

Or stoning!!! Let him or her who is without sin…

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Or stoning!!! Let him or her who is without sin…

If that were the case, then no one could ever admonish anyone.

 

[Amolibri]

If that were the case, then no one could ever admonish anyone.

Imagine that!!!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Imagine that!!!

One can’t perform one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy!

(Sometimes, people don’t think things all the way through)

 

[po18guy]

If that were the case, then no one could ever admonish anyone.

We have known for years that 50% of the people have a visceral, gut wrenching hatred of the man. Satan gets higher approval numbers.

 

[rlg94086]

We have known for years that 50% of the people have a visceral, gut wrenching hatred of the man. Satan gets higher approval numbers.

If you mean 50% of Americans, it is not anywhere near that number. I’m sure the percentage of people who have a “visceral, gut wrenching hatred” of him is actually quite small. Disapproval does not equal hatred. Personally, I think people who actually feel that way are unbalanced.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If true, his first penance should be to do about 50 rosaries and 100 Divine Mercy chaplets…on his knees…on pebbles and then to turn himself in to the Hague for trial.

Something nice and medieval or even public…like sitting outside a church in sack cloth and ashes bemoaning the lives of the people he’s responsible for taking.

And those who vote for candidates who support aboriton should do what?

 

[Ridgerunner]

He has expressed disapproval directly on his previous meetings with Bush,QUOTE]

Please quote the Pope directly, in his words as he spoke them to George Bush, and give the source.

We’ll wait.

 

[po18guy]

If you mean 50% of Americans, it is not anywhere near that number. I’m sure the percentage of people who have a “visceral, gut wrenching hatred” of him is actually quite small. Disapproval does not equal hatred. Personally, I think people who actually feel that way are unbalanced.

And, right you are.

 

[Hastrman]

You’re calling our last 2 popes stupid - when do you get REALLY insulting?

JPII’s statements on war and the death penalty were tendentious, irrational, had no reference to evidence, and were essentially emotionalistic.

In other words, to be blunt, stupid.

I probably ought not to have said that, out of respect for the chair of Peter, but I was robbed of much of my patience by people who think Pope is a feminine noun lecturing me.

Oh, right there. Good one. Is that a line from your comics or anime?

Actually, child, I was simply referring to the fact that your interpretation of the causes of the First World War is not generally encountered after middle school.

As for my hobbies: who’s being ad hominem now?

You can’t be serious.

Do you spend all your time insulting, then not apologizing?

How is it an ad hominem to say, “Events in these Popes’ homelands should have taught them something, but haven’t”?

Or are you assuming, on no evidence, that I’m implying something about the Pope being German? Obviously you don’t read at a high enough grade level to address my points, so please add me to your ignore list.

Do you spend all your time stringing together irrationalities, and getting Italian wrong? I suppose it keeps you off the streets, but maybe you need a hobby. Perhaps you ought to look into comics and anime–those are entertainments that actually engage parts of the brain above the stem. And they keep you indoors and away from 3 card monte scams, which in your case I’m guessing is a plus.

 

[Hastrman]

Whoa…I re-read the ending of that last post after the edit limit had expired, and even I think I was a bit harsh.

I shouldn’t have insulted your intelligence like that, even if you did insult my hobbies (and by implication my intelligence) and misinterpret what I said.

So I apologize.