Is the pope signaling a new age of openness?

[Maranatha]

Is the pope signaling a new age of openness?

By all accounts, Bishop John C. Wester, the newly appointed leader of Utah’s 200,000 Catholics, is fair-minded, pragmatic, nurturing and - here’s the key fact - not overly ideological.
…
Observers say Wester, who assumes his new position March 14 after serving as an auxiliary bishop in San Francisco, will not likely threaten to excommunicate Catholic politicians who support abortion rights, or attack gay activists or academics who challenge doctrinal interpretations. They do not think he will be rigid or authoritarian, and certainly not impervious to the needs of abuse victims.
…
Benedict has “actually disappointed people on the right who wanted a purge and eased fears on the left,” Gibson says. “He has not appointed crusaders, just good, strong orthodox bishops who can engage the culture without being flamboyant, without stirring divisions.”

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[SoonerforChrist]

One statement that bothers me is saying, “some in the church are on the left and then there are some on the right.” I understand individual Catholics can have their views, opinions, ect. but if what they say is not in communion with Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or Magesterium teaching then they should know they are wrong. There are tons of Cafeteria Catholics out there by choice, and others simply haven’t had good Catholic education. I must admit living the Catholic faith can be and is difficult. Some people find it easier to not admit to fault and keep living in sin. Now, what does what I said, have anything to do with answering the question, ‘Is the pope signaling a new age of openness?’

I guess it depends on the topic. The pope has to be in communion with Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and there are some things that can change, while other things simply cannot be changed.

 

[francesco920]

One statement that bothers me is saying, “some in the church are on the left and then there are some on the right.” I understand individual Catholics can have their views, opinions, ect. but if what they say is not in communion with Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or Magesterium teaching then they should know they are wrong. There are tons of Cafeteria Catholics out there by choice, and others simply haven’t had good Catholic education. I must admit living the Catholic faith can be and is difficult. Some people find it easier to not admit to fault and keep living in sin. Now, what does what I said, have anything to do with answering the question, ‘Is the pope signaling a new age of openness?’

I guess it depends on the topic. The pope has to be in communion with Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and there are some things that can change, while other things simply cannot be changed.

I agree. The media is purposely trying to make the Church into a political entity by making it seem like it is composed of political factions, which, it is not. The media either do not understand this or don’t want to understand this. The fact is that you are either Catholic or you are not. If you are pro-abortion, you are not a liberal Catholic but a heretic.

 

[SoonerforChrist]

I agree. The media is purposely trying to make the Church into a political entity by making it seem like it is composed of political factions, which, it is not. The media either do not understand this or don’t want to understand this. The fact is that you are either Catholic or you are not. If you are pro-abortion, you are not a liberal Catholic but a heretic.

The media is also intellectual dishonest when it comes to issues with the Vatican. I believe most people do not understand the relationship between the USCCB and the Vatican, including myself to a certain degree or extent.

I agree with you said at the end. Fortunatly people between the ages of 18 and 34 are very orthodox and you are about to see more young priests tell it like it is, and not have any qualms of making people upset. LOVE AND TRUTH must be together. Love Alone or Truth Alone will not work.

 

[rien]

The Pope’s appointments are surpringly liberal. As the recently former Bishop of SLC noe of San Francisco shows. He is working with gay groups here in the Bay Area to support homosexual adoption - as the December issue of Catholic Worl Report reported. Though CWR reported that in a negatie manner. They are incresingly behind the times.

I think this is a surprising opening of the chirch to the realities of today. I also think the Pope will not, in the end, expand the indult. It keeps getting delayed and it is too divisive. In a way Benedict may open the church to the world like not even John 23. They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

The Holy Spirit is truly leading if this so-called right wing bishop ushers in as Pope an openess to contraception, maybe non-celibate priests in the Western Rite. Truly an exciting time!

The conservative Catholics are, IMO, on the losing side of history.

 

[Image_of_God]

The Pope’s appointments are surpringly liberal. As the recently former Bishop of SLC noe of San Francisco shows. He is working with gay groups here in the Bay Area to support homosexual adoption - as the December issue of Catholic Worl Report reported. Though CWR reported that in a negatie manner. They are incresingly behind the times.

I think this is a surprising opening of the chirch to the realities of today. I also think the Pope will not, in the end, expand the indult. It keeps getting delayed and it is too divisive. In a way Benedict may open the church to the world like not even John 23. They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

The Holy Spirit is truly leading if this so-called right wing bishop ushers in as Pope an openess to contraception, maybe non-celibate priests in the Western Rite. Truly an exciting time!

The conservative Catholics are, IMO, on the losing side of history.

No they are not! We conservatives, I would like to say, are the true Catholics. We follow the teachings of the Church and don’t make our own interpretations. You should never say bad things about the Spirit. He would never lead anyone into heresy.
The Church is not an institution for liberal agenda. Make no mistake God does not change, and neither does the Church. The liberals have already lost by conforming to heresy. They had better repent before the end of time! Liberalism is a heresy and incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

God bless Leo XIII…I think.

 

[rien]

No they are not! We conservatives, I would like to say, are the true Catholics. We follow the teachings of the Church and don’t make our own interpretations. You should never say bad things about the Spirit. He would never lead anyone into heresy.
The Church is not an institution for liberal agenda. Make no mistake God does not change, and neither does the Church. The liberals have already lost by conforming to heresy. They had better repent before the end of time! Liberalism is a heresy and incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

God bless Leo XIII…I think.

Talk to the bishop of SF and the new bishop of SLC. Their positions on issues like gay adoiption are far more in line with American society than with right-wing Catholics. Read the CWR for December. They report Bishop Niedehauer’s support of gay adoption in a negative way but the prophetic witness he is making as bishop of SF still comes through. I fully expect that to be the case with the new bishop of SLC.

 

[Image_of_God]

Talk to the bishop of SF and the new bishop of SLC. Their positions on issues like gay adoiption are far more in line with American society than with right-wing Catholics. Read the CWR for December. They report Bishop Niedehauer’s support of gay adoption in a negative way but the prophetic witness he is making as bishop of SF still comes through. I fully expect that to be the case with the new bishop of SLC.

I do not care much about what is in line with the liberal world or for that fact, the City of Man. I am more concerned that the Church is in line with the City of God, and the vision that Jesus had for it.
If it is not that, then it is not the Catholic Church. John XXIII sought to bring in the good elements of modern society and condemn the bad. Today’s liberalists are now trying to bring the whole package of liberalism into the Church and God forbid it! Liberalism for the most part is a heresy and is incopatible with the Church. You cannot “water-down” Catholicism. Either you believe the whole thing or you do not. You understand what I am saying.
All that liberalism comes to bring is distruction to the Church and I find it suprising that some people would delight in it.

 

[twf]

Rien: I take it then that you deny that the Holy Spirit protects the solemn teachings of the Church from error? You do not believe that the Scriptures are inspired by God and without error? You do not believe that Christ, as He promised, preserves His Church and keeps it on the straight and narrow? Individual bishops, even popes, can hold false opinions…but the teachings of the Church are those of Christ Himself. “You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” “…the Church, the pillar and foundation of God” (1 Tim 3:15).
That being the case, why do you trust the Church on anything? Why do you believe in the Divinity of Christ? (I am assuming that you do). Why are you Catholic? I don’t mean to insult you, I am sincerely curious. I don’t understand how one can reject certain Catholic teachings yet accept others. If the Church is wrong on important issues such as the morality of homosexuality, why should we trust Her on anything?

 

[SoonerforChrist]

In a way Benedict may open the church to the world like not even John 23. They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

The Holy Spirit is truly leading if this so-called right wing bishop ushers in as Pope an openess to contraception, maybe non-celibate priests in the Western Rite. Truly an exciting time!

The conservative Catholics are, IMO, on the losing side of history.

It is no wonder traditionalists are aggravated with some of the mentality of the laity and even some clergy-men. Why do you pray that the Church will change its position on contraception? Do you realize the roots of our problems within our society have to do with contraception?

Interesting that all the positions you want changed are sexual related. Ever thought that we lived in a sex craved society that thinks the answer to everything is to be MORE OPEN?

BTW, did you know there are about 20 men in College Station, TX that are very orthodox and are going to enter the semonary? Liberal idealogies are typically endorsed by Catholics who are not well educated in their faith, products of the 60s.

 

[irenaeus1]

They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

No hint whatsoever. What the moral theologians are debating is regarding a very narrow and specific scenario. Why are you praying for such a change? Do you or your spouse have AIDS? Are you currently being disobedient with regard to artificial contraception?

Also, just because there is discussion on the topic doesn’t mean that the Church is contemplating changing the teaching. It could very well be that the Church is attempting to bolster it’s theological arguments against artificial contraception, similar to the way the defense in a court case will try their case before a mock trial. You want to know what the opponents may argue in order to ensure that your arguments hold or where you may need to do more homework.

The Holy Spirit is truly leading if this so-called right wing bishop ushers in as Pope an openess to contraception, maybe non-celibate priests in the Western Rite. Truly an exciting time!

Exciting indeed, but not for the reasons you cited. If that’s what you’re banking on for your excitement, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

The conservative Catholics are, IMO, on the losing side of history.

Hardly… the Church has always had tares growing right along side with the wheat, and will continue this way until His return in glory. By the way, it’s not *conservative *Catholics; it’s orthodox Catholics.

In Christ,
Irenaeus

 

[estesbob]

The Pope’s appointments are surpringly liberal. As the recently former Bishop of SLC noe of San Francisco shows. He is working with gay groups here in the Bay Area to support homosexual adoption - as the December issue of Catholic Worl Report reported. Though CWR reported that in a negatie manner. They are incresingly behind the times.

I think this is a surprising opening of the chirch to the realities of today. I also think the Pope will not, in the end, expand the indult. It keeps getting delayed and it is too divisive. In a way Benedict may open the church to the world like not even John 23. They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

The Holy Spirit is truly leading if this so-called right wing bishop ushers in as Pope an openess to contraception, maybe non-celibate priests in the Western Rite. Truly an exciting time!

The conservative Catholics are, IMO, on the losing side of history.

Have you read Humanae Vitae? domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/BASEDOCS/P6_HV.HTM

I suggest you do so and then you will see why the doctrine is the way it is. I hate to diapoint you but there is no consideration being given to liftng the ban on contraception. in fact they have no power to do so. What the Vatican is looking at is whether condoms should eb allowed when one partner has AIDS,. If they did it would be done under the double effect doctrine and would have no effect whatsoever on the Churchs teachings on ABC. It is extremely doubtful they will allow this, They are looking into it becuase they were asked to by the African Bishops.

An example of the double effect is how a woman can have treatment for cancer while pregnant. The purpose of the treatemtn is not abotion so it is allowed even though it might result in the death of her unborn child.

Cold you define for me what you mean by Conservative Catholic?

 

[Contarini]

I agree. The media is purposely trying to make the Church into a political entity by making it seem like it is composed of political factions, which, it is not.

I’m sorry, but it is. If your faith tells you otherwise, your faith is wrong.

What became of Catholic incarnationalism? What became of the truth that the Church is a human as well as a divine institution? All human institutions are political and have factions. That’s the way humans are. You’re portraying a Church that is made up of angels.

The media either do not understand this or don’t want to understand this. The fact is that you are either Catholic or you are not. If you are pro-abortion, you are not a liberal Catholic but a heretic.

Try this one on for size: all baptized Christians are Catholics. We may be bad Catholics, but we’re Catholics. There’s only one Church, and we were all baptized into it.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

On the other hand, WRT the OP, I agree that the media are too hung up on this conservative-liberal business. If Pope Benedict says or does anything that isn’t savage and repressive, they pat each other on the backs in congratulation that he isn’t as bad as they thought, instead of considering the possibility that their stereotypes were stupid from the start.

Edwin

 

[Mannyfit75]

Popes tend to avoid what is liberal and what is conservative. The Pope just adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church that’s 2,000 yrs old, neither liberal or conservative.

 

[francesco920]

The Pope’s appointments are surpringly liberal. As the recently former Bishop of SLC noe of San Francisco shows. He is working with gay groups here in the Bay Area to support homosexual adoption - as the December issue of Catholic Worl Report reported. Though CWR reported that in a negatie manner. They are incresingly behind the times.

I think this is a surprising opening of the chirch to the realities of today. I also think the Pope will not, in the end, expand the indult. It keeps getting delayed and it is too divisive. In a way Benedict may open the church to the world like not even John 23. They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

The Holy Spirit is truly leading if this so-called right wing bishop ushers in as Pope an openess to contraception, maybe non-celibate priests in the Western Rite. Truly an exciting time!

The conservative Catholics are, IMO, on the losing side of history.

The Church cannot change its position on contraception. Contraception is a mortal sin and that is infallible doctrine.

You are advocating heresy.

 

[SoonerforChrist]

I’m sorry, but it is. If your faith tells you otherwise, your faith is wrong.

What became of Catholic incarnationalism? What became of the truth that the Church is a human as well as a divine institution? All human institutions are political and have factions. That’s the way humans are. You’re portraying a Church that is made up of angels.

I disagree. Individual Catholics can have their own opinions, but if they are not in communion with Catholic teaching then they are in error and not in full communion. The Church, in Christ, is like a sacrament - a sign and instrument, that is, of communion with God and of unity among all men

Try this one on for size: all baptized Christians are Catholics. We may be bad Catholics, but we’re Catholics. There’s only one Church, and we were all baptized into it.

Edwin

.

According the CCC: 1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: “For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.”

All baptized people are Christians, but they might not be in full communion with Church teachings. We are all sinners, no doubt, but we should all try to at least be obedient to Holy Mother Church and we all know that not all are.

The Church has sinners in it (The HUMAN ELEMENT), but the Church is also a Divine Institution which is guided by the Holy Spirit.

There is no need for the Church to be discussed in terms “liberal and conservative”. The Church is what it is, a sign and instrument, that is, of communion with God and of unity among all men. The typical liberal views are not in communion with God.

 

[Kepha15]

Conservative (adj): disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

Liberal (adj): favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

The Word of God is unchanging. As it was in the past, it is today, and will be tomorrow. There is no place in the church for “liberal” Catholics. This implies that God’s word was not good enough to begin with, and must be changed or altered to fit our wants and desires.

Every time I hear the term “liberal Catholic”, I want to be sick. If you are a true Catholic, you are conservative. Hate to break it to you, but that’s the way it is.

 

[Digitonomy]

To claim that the Church cannot be described in political terms, such as liberal and conservative, is naive.

Benedict is more conservative than John Paul on some issues, and more liberal on others. Why anyone would find this observation offensive is beyond me.

 

[Scottgun]

They are looking again at contraception and I am praying the church will change its position on that under Benedict. There are hints it will.

Once again note well. A question was raised about a very specific circumstance–African married couples where one of them had AIDS. Now through the telephone game this has turned into a complete rethinking of the teaching on contraception.

There is not one iota of evidence to suggest that Benedict will make an exception in the African AIDS-condom-question, to say nothing of a reversal on contraception as a whole which is irreformable. Wishful thinking at its worst.