Is the question of God's existence the most important question of your life?

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I should have included beauty in my list:

“Beauty is truth, truth beauty,” – that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know." - John Keats

We shall keep you in our prayers. 🙂
Ironically, that concluding verse from “Ode on a Grecian Urn” is fraught with ambiguity concerning whether the urn itself says this or Keats, due to the changes in punctuation. A lot of ink has been spilled discussing who the speaker is and the meaning of the verse. But a beautiful sentiment and poem, regardless.
 
Should it be? Why or why not?
Gods existence is the most important question, since if there is no God then my existence is objectively pointless, meaningless, and lacks any true moral value whatsoever other than whatever utilitarian or pragmatic value that society chooses to give me according to their subjective desire and whim.

Some people are happy with that and are willing to live with it…

I’m not.

If I found out that God does not exist, I hope that I would have the courage to commit suicide so as to end this vein façade that people call life.
 
Ironically, that concluding verse from “Ode on a Grecian Urn” is fraught with ambiguity concerning whether the urn itself says this or Keats, due to the changes in punctuation. A lot of ink has been spilled discussing who the speaker is and the meaning of the verse. But a beautiful sentiment and poem, regardless.
The fact that Keats believed this world is a vale of soul-making supports the view that not only truth and beauty but also goodness, freedom, justice, love and joy all converge in the Creator of heaven and earth:

“Bards of Passion and of Mirth,
Ye have left your souls on earth!
Have ye souls in heaven too,
Double-lived in regions new?
Yes, and those of heaven commune
With the spheres of sun and moon;
With the noise of fountains wond’rous,
And the parle of voices thund’rous;
With the whisper of heaven’s trees
And one another, in soft ease
Seated on Elysian lawns
Brows’d by none but Dian’s fawns
Underneath large blue-bells tented,
Where the daisies are rose-scented,
And the rose herself has got
Perfume which on earth is not;
Where the nightingale doth sing
Not a senseless, tranced thing,
But divine melodious truth;
Philosophic numbers smooth;
Tales and golden histories
Of heaven and its mysteries.
Thus ye live on high, and then
On the earth ye live again;
And the souls ye left behind you
Teach us, here, the way to find you,
Where your other souls are joying,
Never slumber’d, never cloying,
Here, your earth-born souls still speak
To mortals, of their little week;
Of their sorrows and delights;
Of their passions and their spites;
Of their glory and their shame;
What doth strengthen and what maim.
Thus ye teach us, every day,
Wisdom, though fled far away.
Bards of Passion and of Mirth,
Ye have left your souls on earth!
Ye have souls in heaven too,
Double-lived in regions new!”
 
The fact that Keats believed this world is a vale of soul-making supports the view that not only truth and beauty but also goodness, freedom, justice, love and joy all converge in the Creator of heaven and earth:

“Bards of Passion and of Mirth,
Ye have left your souls on earth!
Have ye souls in heaven too,
Double-lived in regions new?
Yes, and those of heaven commune
With the spheres of sun and moon;
With the noise of fountains wond’rous,
And the parle of voices thund’rous;
With the whisper of heaven’s trees
And one another, in soft ease
Seated on Elysian lawns
Brows’d by none but Dian’s fawns
Underneath large blue-bells tented,
Where the daisies are rose-scented,
And the rose herself has got
Perfume which on earth is not;
Where the nightingale doth sing
Not a senseless, tranced thing,
But divine melodious truth;
Philosophic numbers smooth;
Tales and golden histories
Of heaven and its mysteries.
Thus ye live on high, and then
On the earth ye live again;
And the souls ye left behind you
Teach us, here, the way to find you,
Where your other souls are joying,
Never slumber’d, never cloying,
Here, your earth-born souls still speak
To mortals, of their little week;
Of their sorrows and delights;
Of their passions and their spites;
Of their glory and their shame;
What doth strengthen and what maim.
Thus ye teach us, every day,
Wisdom, though fled far away.
Bards of Passion and of Mirth,
Ye have left your souls on earth!
Ye have souls in heaven too,
Double-lived in regions new!”
Love it! Keats is my favorite English poet: the Odes are wonderful, and so is The Eve of St. Agnes.
 
Love it! Keats is my favorite English poet: the Odes are wonderful, and so is The Eve of St. Agnes.
I studied Keats in great depth for two years and realised his “best” friend, Charles Brown - an anti-Christian deist and womaniser - had a pernicious effect on him when he became seriously ill from TB and knew he would probably die within a few months like his brother Tom (from whom he had almost certainly contracted the disease when he nursed him). Under Brown’s influence Keats attributed his illness to not having had sexual relations with Fanny, the woman he loved, and several of his poems reflect the notion that love destroys a man.

Worse than that was his virtual loss of faith in God and also his belief that this is a vale of soul-making. He hoped he might recover in Rome thinking Brown would go with him but it was a blessing that Brown was unavailable (by accident or design). Another friend, Joseph Severn - who was a Christian - accompanied him, looked after him day and night like a saint, restored his faith by his unselfish dedication and by reading to him. He soon tired of Don Quixote and Maria Edgeworth’s novels and asked for Plato, The Pilgrim’s Progress and Jeremy Taylor’s Holy Living and Holy Dying in particular:
If thou wilt be fearless of death endeavour to be in love with the felicities of saints and angels, and be once persuaded to believe that there is a condition of living better than this; that there are creatures more noble than we; that above there is a country better than ours; that the inhabitants know more and know better, and are in places of rest and desire; and first learn to value it, and then learn to purchase it, and death cannot be a formidable thing, which lets us into so much joy and so much felicity.
ccel.org/ccel/taylor/holy_dying.v.viii.html

During the last few weeks of Keats’s “posthumous” life (as he called it) an unearthly brightness illuminated his pale face. His final words were “Thank God it has come.”

His anagram of “John Keats” - which he had thought of long before his illness - was fulfilled: “Thanks, Joe”…
 
Indeed, you seem to be able to hold your own in debates. 🙂

And yes, I am a freshman in college. I feel like my identity changes every two weeks.

By way of analogy, I would like to add: if I am consistently getting the wrong answer on a math problem, I should not let my friend show me the teacher’s manual so I can copy down the right answer. I should try to apprehend where I went wrong and how to get the right answer.
Polytropos,

Doubt is a very natural response for just about everyone. I went through over 10 year of being a lapsed Catholic I also majored in Math so good luck with that. I would recommend that you read two books: Proof of Heaven by Dr Eben Alexander, and the boy who Met Jesus, by Immaculee ILIBAGZIA.

The first is by a neuro surgeon who went through a near death experience and the second is about a 13 year old atheist who encountered Christ, similar to St. Paul only in more depth and much more recently.

As a mathematician, I find it interesting in science and philosophy that we are always concerned with ‘absolute truth’, either “it IS” or “it is NOT”… and in the Bible God choses as His name Yahweh, which simply means “I am” or “I exist”.

Everyone wants to be 100% certain that God exists, and even those special few who really hear God or have seen a vision of God can not be certain if they are really sane or just delusional.

I have not seen or heard from God directly. BUT I have heard enough stories from very sane and reliable people, some friends and just stories in books, that I believe 100% that God is who He says He is. When you consider the integrity of the hundreds of saints who have witnessed Christ and Mary, who have performed countless miracles in Christ’s name, I find it impossible to believe otherwise.

God bless you and please continue searching, I guarantee you will not be disappointed.
 
Thanks for the response. I will try to take a look at those books (I’ve actually picked out about 15 books to read over the next several months - but someday I will get to them, hopefully).

I think I am getting there. I am trying to be in dialogue with a handful of Catholics so I am “tethered” to the faith and don’t ditch it as soon as I doubt. I think I am also working out of the modern mindset that demands 100% certainty for everything - but that is a very gradual process.
 
. . . I am also working out of the modern mindset that demands 100% certainty for everything . . .
I am not sure where your impression that there can be 100% certainty, stems from
the idea of complete certainty seems to be counter to modern thinking
many atheists do not understand the certainty that comes with faith;
although many others flock to science in the false belief that it provides certainty
basic concepts in science have to do with uncertainty and bias; there is in fact an Uncertainty Principle
it is a quality of human nature that we are faced with uncertainty everywhere
this can be the source of considerable existential anxiety
 
I am not sure where your impression that there can be 100% certainty, stems from
the idea of complete certainty seems to be counter to modern thinking …]
it is a quality of human nature that we are faced with uncertainty everywhere
this can be the source of considerable existential anxiety
Yeah, I think one of the key attributes of skeptics and agnostics (whether agnostic atheist or agnostic theist) is that they don’t feel certain about some proposition.
 
I am not sure where your impression that there can be 100% certainty, stems from
the idea of complete certainty seems to be counter to modern thinking
many atheists do not understand the certainty that comes with faith;
although many others flock to science in the false belief that it provides certainty
basic concepts in science have to do with uncertainty and bias; there is in fact an Uncertainty Principle
it is a quality of human nature that we are faced with uncertainty everywhere
this can be the source of considerable existential anxiety
I agree. I wasn’t under the impression that there could be 100% certainty for anything, but I was holding scientific assumptions (about, say, abiogenesis) to a different standard than I held religious assumptions. I would assume naturalistic causes even though they were not proven, while I would discard religion because it was also uncertain.
 
Thanks for the response. I will try to take a look at those books (I’ve actually picked out about 15 books to read over the next several months - but someday I will get to them, hopefully).

I think I am getting there. I am trying to be in dialogue with a handful of Catholics so I am “tethered” to the faith and don’t ditch it as soon as I doubt. I think I am also working out of the modern mindset that demands 100% certainty for everything - but that is a very gradual process.
The only 100% certainty is the fact that we are thinking! Everything else is based on that reality as far as intellectual knowledge is concerned. Love, of course, is another matter…🙂
 
If God is Love, as you believe, then no sane person will reject Love. And it is the duty of God to cure every insanity for Love’s sake.
Your paradigm seems to work, I agree with your statement. But God requires co-operation. Ball’s in your court now.
 
  1. Disbelief is **not **
a sin if it is sincere. 2. It is a sin to pretend to believe if we don’t believe. 3. We cannot always know for certain what we believe but if we believe in truth, goodness, freedom, justice and love we must be close to God. 4. Only those who willfully reject God are separated from Him.

Since I rarely look into CAF because of answering in our “MailCircle”, I only found this statement just now, and I must object; for disbelieve IS A SIN, as you point out in your number 4, as disbelief is willfull rejection of what the disbeliever knows.

One obviously can only disbelief what he knows. A thing one never heard of and so doesn’t know, he can not disbelieve nor reject. So, he knows about Jesus Christ and rejects God - disbelieves His word in the sense of 1John 5,10: He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to His Son.

Disbelieve is always sincere, for if it’s not, it’s not disbelief but doubts. Doubts however, include the possibility that it’s true after all; so plain uncertainty. But even if you are uncertain if a friend of yours tells the truth or a lie, then there is no real friendship; - there is no belief in God, who is so much more than our very best friend or even your own child.
Disbelief so absolutely is a sin, without any excuse as St. Paul writes in Romans 1,20: Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely His eternal power and deity has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they who suppress the truth are without any excuse; for although they know God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened.

Yours
Bruno
 
Polytropos: …I have not seen or heard from God directly. BUT I have heard enough stories from very sane and reliable people, some friends and just stories in books, that I believe 100% that God is who He says He is.
All of us on earth have seen and heard from God directly. But in our relativism we allocate and assign all these occurrences otherwise.

Granny on a walk in the wood was badly hit in her face by a branch and she said THANK YOU DEAR GOD. We kids where astonished at this and asked Granny why she, even she was bleeding, had said THANK YOU DEAR GOD.
So she replied; oh, the devil would have laughed if that branch had hit my eyes and I was blind and therefore might have started to doubt God - so God in his love held this branch and it didn’t injure my eyes. Indeed enough reason to thank God or His delegated Angel who protected me this way.

This, which happened in the early 40s, impressed us kids up to this day deeply and whatever happens - we still thank God and be it ad dreadful as can be. God didn’t bring Job misery - Satan cast it over him. Job however held stedfast on to God however terrible his fate was. Nothing bad ever comes from God.

All of us had this direct tough of God often in our lives. Blessed he who recognizes God’s intervention.

These days we all see the waking up of nature. Countless blossoms, fresh green leaves occur on trees, fruit and flowers everywhere. We all take this as “normal” and don’t even ask if human kind would be able to create a single seed for just one blade of grass. No! No one can nor ever will be able to. It’s God’s hand who does. It’s God’s hand who lets us weak up in the morning for another chance to prepare to see God, which we all will one day.

Yes, we do see, hear and feel directly God’s hand every day. All it requires is the right antenna for God, named belief.

Yours
Bruno
 
Bruno, of course I see God in every facet of my life… BUT I am talking about direct supernatural encounters. I don’t need to see those because enough witnesses have given reliable testimony about such things that I can believe the Gospel is real as the evangelists wrote.

Many of these stories are from Church declared saints. Others are from friends who I know personally. When a priest tells me that he saw his aunt’s spirit before he found out about her death a bit later. I know it is true because I know the character of that priest. When several of these stories come from trusted friends, the combined effect is that God in His mercy is revealing to us that He is real. Sure there are a lot of frauds and liars, but saints and close friends are not among them.
 
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