Is the Quran imperfect?

[thedavidwilson]

I came across this quote:

*The quran contains sentences which are incomplete and not fully intelligible without the aid of commentaries; foreign words, unfamiliar arabic words and words used with other than the normal meaning; adjectives and verbs not inflected without observance of the concord of gender and number; illogical and ungrammatically applied pronouns which sometimes have no referent; and predicates which in rhymed passages are often remote from their subjects. *
Ali Dashti, Iranian Shiite Scholar

Muslims often say that the quran is the perfect preservation of the word of God. I find it hard to believe God would have so many grammatical issues.

Could any muslims out there tell me if these issues are commonly known in the muslim world and how they are explained away?

Could any of my fellow kuffir’s tell me where I might find some books on these issues with the quran?

 

[hamba2han]

Here is a short illustration of the inimitable eloquence of the Qur’an that makes it really quite impossible to accurately translate into another language:

An Example of Eloquence in the Qur’an: The Preposition ‘of’ in Verse 42:43

Source: “The Miracles of the Qur’an” Shaykh M Mitwalli Al-Sharawi.

The language of the Qur’an is unsurpassed in its accuracy of meaning and expression. Each letter and word has its place while the language is free from fault. These unique features are found manifested in the use of one single letter or a preposition, as is demonstrated in the following verses:

**Ya bunayya aqimi alssalata wa/mur bialmaAAroofi wainha AAani almunkari waisbir AAala ma asabaka inna thalika min AAazmi al-omoori

“…and bear patiently that which befalls you; surely these acts require courage; ”… (Qur’an 31:17)**

Walaman sabara waghafara inna thalika lamin AAazmi al-omoori

“And verily whoso is patient and forgiveth - lo! that, verily is (of) the steadfast heart of things.”… (Qur’an 42:43)

In the second verse the preposition “of” (LAMIN) may pass unnoticed or be taken as an emphatic synonym. But this is not so, because every letter or word in the language of the Qur’an is selected with the utmost care to convey one intrinsic meaning and definite purpose.

There is no such thing as synonymity in the Qur’an. Each letter and word has its own fixed meaning which no other word can express as accurately, irrespective of their seeming similarity. If we consider thoughtfully the meticulous selectivity of the words in the above verses and their underlying meaning, we soon come to realize that there are two kinds of patience.

In the first kind there is no direct adversary or person responsible for hardship or misfortune; for example a brick falling from a building under construction onto the head of an unsuspecting pedestrian, or the collapse of a newly-built house over peacefully sleeping tenants. In all incidents and mishaps of this nature no individual bears the responsibility for the victim’s misfortune. It is therefore easy for the unfortunate man to restrain his anger and accept his misfortune as an act of Allah. This kind of patience does not require a great deal of energy and can be easily achieved.

But patience which is “verily of the steadfast heart of things“ is that which involves an antagonist against whom a victim has the freedom to retaliate and avenge himself, but prefers to suppress his anger and vengeful tendencies and forgive him. This kind of patience is deemed by Allah to be worthier than the first, because in this kind the aggrieved is dominated by his instinctive anger and feelings of injustice, and has to exercise a great deal of self-restraint. He is restrained by his fear of Allah, and refrains from responding to evil with evil. In the above verses, Allah defines the merits of the two types of patience and their corresponding heavenly rewards. He also describes the human responses of retaliation that ought to be observed in each case by the faithful.

Thus, in the first case they are commanded to accept what befalls them with humility and resignation to His will. In the second they are commanded to be forgiving and to maintain their faith in Allah’s justice.

The preposition ‘of’ has obviously been used to accentuate the distinction between the kind of patience in which forgiveness is not a necessity, and that in which forgiveness represents a test of endurance of injustice and of the believer’s trust in Allah’s providence and will. This shows how a single letter or preposition can bear such depth of meaning and discriminating power in the language of the Qur’an.

The above example clearly demonstrates just how very difficult it is to accurately translate even one short verse of the Qur’an involving the use of just a single preposition ‘of’ within it, such is the supreme eloquence of the language used in the Qur’an.

As we can all imagine, it is therefore simply not possible to translate the over 6,000 verses of the entire Qur’an into another language without losing much of the accuracy of their true meaning.

 

[hamba2han]

And to get an idea of the inimitable structure of the language used in the Qur’an, the Qur’an sets a challenge for people who doubt the divine origin of the Qur’an to produce a chapter like it and for the past 1400 years, this challenge has not been met.

The following is an excerpt from an article:

The Arabic language and Arab speech are divided into two branches. One of them is rhymed poetry. It is a speech with metre and rhyme, which means every line of it ends upon a definite letter, which is called the ‘rhyme’. This rhymed poetry is again divided into metres or what is called as al-Bihar, literally meaning ‘The Seas’. This is so called because of the way the poetry moves according to the rhythmic patterns. There are sixteen al-Bihar viz; at-Tawil, al-Bassit, al-Wafir, al-Kamil, ar-Rajs, al-Khafif, al-Hazaj, al-Muttakarib, al-Munsarih, al-Muktatab, al-Muktadarak, al-Madid, al-Mujtath, al-Ramel, al-Khabab and as-Saria’. Each one rhymes differently.

The other branch of Arabic speech is prose, that is non-metrical speech. The prose may be a rhymed prose. Rhymed prose consists of cola ending on the same rhyme throughout, or of sentences rhymed in pairs. This is called “rhymed prose” or sajc. Prose may also be straight prose (mursal). In straight prose, the speech goes on and is not divided in cola, but is continued straight through without any divisions, either of rhyme or of anything else. Prose is employed in sermons and prayers and in speeches intended to encourage or frighten the masses.

So, the challenge is to produce in Arabic, three lines, that do not fall into one of these sixteen al-Bihar, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers, and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook.

It is interesting to note that all of the known pre-Islam and post-Islamic poetry falls in the above sixteen metres or al-Bihar. Indeed the pagans of Mecca repeatedly accuse Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of being a forger, a soothsayer etc. The Arabs who were at the pinnacle of their poetry and prose during the time of revelation of the Qur’an could not even produce the smallest surah of its like. The Qur’an’s form did not fit into any of the above mentioned categories. It was this that made the Qur’an inimitable, and left the pagan Arabs at a loss as to how they might combat it.

And as the Qur’an itself says:
**
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith** …(Qur’an 2:23-24)

 

[thistle]

I came across this quote:

*The quran contains sentences which are incomplete and not fully intelligible without the aid of commentaries; foreign words, unfamiliar arabic words and words used with other than the normal meaning; adjectives and verbs not inflected without observance of the concord of gender and number; illogical and ungrammatically applied pronouns which sometimes have no referent; and predicates which in rhymed passages are often remote from their subjects. *
Ali Dashti, Iranian Shiite Scholar

Muslims often say that the quran is the perfect preservation of the word of God. I find it hard to believe God would have so many grammatical issues.

Could any muslims out there tell me if these issues are commonly known in the muslim world and how they are explained away?

Could any of my fellow kuffir’s tell me where I might find some books on these issues with the quran?

The Quran contains many lies. For example, in it the divinity of Jesus is denied.

 

[inJESUS]

Seems these days that miracle is in the eye of the beholder. I have one thing to say : when muslims where compiling the Quran, none looked for supernatural eloquence, divine prepositions, heavenly verbs or angelic structures. Those who compiled it looked for Isnad, that is, a verse must be known by many persons. None said : this is not the word of Allah because its not eloquent.

What eloquence in a book where many prepositions are used that you don’t know who they refer to? what eloquence in a book that has chapters compliled with no harmony but depending on lenghth? what eloquence is there in a book that can be read in 7 ways according to Muhammad? what eloquence in a book where before means after and below means above according to muslims who want to reconcile the mistakes by changing the meaning of a word? people are so naive my friend, they look for eloquence without seeing the theological huge mistakes in the book.

Check what the apostle Paul wrote by inspiration:

When I came to you, brothers, proclaiming the mystery of God, 1 **I did not come with sublimity of words **or of wisdom.
2
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3
I came to you in weakness 2 and fear and much trembling,
4
and my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive (words of) wisdom, 3 but with a demonstration of spirit and power,
5
**so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God. **

 

[inJESUS]

the Qur’an sets a challenge for people who doubt the divine origin of the Qur’an to produce a chapter like it and for the past 1400 years, this challenge has not been met.

)

and who is the jusdge of this “divine” challenge? subjective Muslims?

 

[inJESUS]

then produce a Sura like thereunto; But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith

…(Qur’an 2:23-24)

who judges that we cannot? Muslims right? and you still believe God would give such a human-tainted challenge and worse yet menaces you of hell even if you admit it? and since when does God Almighty challenge people in this way? ever heard an honourable prophet give such challenges to prove his words are from God?

 

[hamba2han]

Seems these days that miracle is in the eye of the beholder. I have one thing to say : when muslims where compiling the Quran, none looked for supernatural eloquence, divine prepositions, heavenly verbs or angelic structures. Those who compiled it looked for Isnad, that is, a verse must be known by many persons. None said : this is not the word of Allah because its not eloquent.

Clarification is needed here.

‘Isnad’ was used only in the collection and evaluation of the Hadith and NOT the Qur’an.

The Qur’an did not undergo any process of ‘isnad’ whatsoever because it was completed and authenticated by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself shortly before his death.

The Qur’an that we have today is, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same as what was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) some 1400 years ago.

 

[inJESUS]

Clarification is needed here.
QUOTE]

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari:

who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra’ were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, ‘Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra’ (those who know the Qur’an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur’an MAY BE LOST, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur’an." Abu Bakr added, “I said to 'Umar, ‘How can I do something **WHICH ALLAH’S APOSTLE HAS NOT DONE?’ **'Umar said (to me), ‘By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.’ So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar.” (Zaid bin Thabit added Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah’s Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur’an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur’an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing WHICH THE PROPHET HAS NOT DONE?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar. So I started locating Qur’anic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba WHICH I HAD NOT FOUND WITH ANYONE ELSE, (and they were):–
“Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)” (9.128)

Zuhri reports, 'We have heard that many Qur’an passages were revealed but that those who had memorised them fell in the Yemama fighting. Those passages had not been written down, and following the deaths of those who knew them, were no longer known; nor had Abu Bakr, nor Umar nor Uthman as yet collected the texts of the Qur’an.

'Yazid b. Maawiya was in the mosque in the time of al Walid b. Uqba, sitting in a group among them was Hudaifa. An official called out, ‘Those who follow the reading of Abu Musa, go to the corner nearest the Kinda door. Those who follow Abdullah's reading, go the corner nearest Abdullah’s house.**’ Their reading of Q 2.196 did not agree. One group read, ‘Perform the pilgrimage TO GOD’ The others read it ‘Perform the pilgrimage TO THE KA’BAH.’ **

“I (Masud) acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs when Zaid was still a childish youth - must I now forsake what I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah?”

Interestingly, the Muslims in Iraq refused to receive Uthman’s text, preferring Masud’s instead. This led to a confrontation between Hudhaifah and Masud. The matter becomes worse when we realize that Uthman’s text omitted chapters and verses that the other texts included:

According to Ibn Umar and Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, one chapter, Surah al-Ahzab [33] had 200 verses in Muhammad’s time. Yet, once Uthman was finished only 73 verses remained, eliminating nearly 140 verses. This tradition is also confirmed by Ubay b. Kabb. ( Al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan fii ulum al-Qur’an on nasikh wa mansukh; Darwaza’s al-Qur’an Al-Majid)

Dr. Taha Hussein summarizes Uthman’s actions:

The Prophet Muhammad said: “The Koran was revealed in seven dialects, all of them are right and perfect.” When Uthman banned whichever he banned from the Koran, and burned whichever he burned, **he banned passages Allah has revealed and burned parts of the Koran which were given to the Muslims by the Messenger of Allah. **… When Ibn Massoud objected to the burning of the other codices of the Koran, Uhman took him out of the mosque with violence, and struck him to the ground, and broke one of his ribs. (Husein, A-Fitnato Al-Kobra [The Great Sedition], pp. 160-161, 181-182;

.These are but examples to show that the pinky image you make out of the quran’s compilation is not as pinky as you show it to be . It becomes obvious from these traditions that contradictions and variant readings existed between the different texts. These variances gave rise to charges of corruption and textual perversion amongst the Islamic umma, causing Uthman to burn all other texts.

 

[hamba2han]

Although a number of the early Muslims who had memorized the Qur’an did die in battle, the fact of the matter is that there were many others who did survive those battles and I trust their fear of Allah and their utmost devotion and dedication to their faith infinitely more than I trust the intentions of the detractors of Islam who only wish to do whatever they can to discredit the Qur’an.

There is a Biblical verse which prophecies the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and which partly explains why Muslims have absolutely no doubts about the authenticity and veracity of the Qur’an.

"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them."… Deuteronomy 33:1

Muslims have no problem at all accepting that this is indeed a prophecy in the Bible which has been fulfilled.

Christians and Jews however refuse to believe that it is even a prophecy.

No matter, the point is that it is not just the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is responsible for the rise of Islam and the preservation of the Qur’an in it’s original form.

With the help of Allah, it was also the efforts of these “ten thousands of saints” during and shortly after the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that has enabled the Qur’an and also his Sunnah to be preserved so precisely and meticulously that has ensured that the Message of Islam will never be corrupted or lost till the Last Day when the world finally comes to an end.

Incidentally, Zaid bin Thabit, may Allah be pleased with him, was also one of the many Companions who had memorized the Qur’an by heart and so he would certainly have known whether or not any verses were missing or added.

The following is the report transmitted in the Sahih Bukhari:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to 'Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthmfin, 'O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an), as Jews and the Christians did before'. So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Sa'id bin Al-'As and 'Abdur Rahman bin Hari-bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish as the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Zaid bin Thabit added, 'A verse from Sura al-Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari'. (That verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their convenant with Allah' (33: 23).

 

[Kadaveri]

Just so we all know, Ali Dashti is **not **a Shi’a scholar, he’s a very anti-Islamic Persian secularist.

But regarding the quote, I’ve yet to see anyone point out a *specific *example of the Qur’an using incomplete sentences, adjectives and verbs not inflected without observation of the concord of gender and number, illogical and ungrammatically applied pronouns etc… Unfamiliar Arabic words I’ll accept, but I don’t see how that’s a problem.

And also, at the time the Qur’an was written there was no standardised Arabic language. Grammar rules were only developed later, and they were developed from Arabic as it’s utilised in the Qur’an, so how anyone can claim the Qur’an has grammatical errors is beyond me. It’s like saying the Oxford English Dictionary has spelling mistakes…

 

[thedavidwilson]

There is a Biblical verse which prophecies the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and which partly explains why Muslims have absolutely no doubts about the authenticity and veracity of the Qur’an.

I thought the bible was corrupted? Please explain how you can logically base your arguments on it? Could you give me a “bible” with all the uncorrupted verses in it so I am not led astray?

 

[Booklover]

Although a number of the early Muslims who had memorized the Qur’an did die in battle, the fact of the matter is that there were many others who did survive those battles and I trust their fear of Allah and their utmost devotion and dedication to their faith infinitely more than I trust the intentions of the detractors of Islam who only wish to do whatever they can to discredit the Qur’an.

There is a Biblical verse which prophecies the coming of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and which partly explains why Muslims have absolutely no doubts about the authenticity and veracity of the Qur’an.

"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them."… Deuteronomy 33:1

Muslims have no problem at all accepting that this is indeed a prophecy in the Bible which has been fulfilled.

Christians and Jews however refuse to believe that it is even a prophecy.

No matter, the point is that it is not just the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is responsible for the rise of Islam and the preservation of the Qur’an in it’s original form.

With the help of Allah, it was also the efforts of these “ten thousands of saints” during and shortly after the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that has enabled the Qur’an and also his Sunnah to be preserved so precisely and meticulously that has ensured that the Message of Islam will never be corrupted or lost till the Last Day when the world finally comes to an end.

Incidentally, Zaid bin Thabit, may Allah be pleased with him, was also one of the many Companions who had memorized the Qur’an by heart and so he would certainly have known whether or not any verses were missing or added.

The following is the report transmitted in the Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to 'Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to 'Uthmfin, ‘O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur’an), as Jews and the Christians did before’. So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, ‘Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may compile the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you’. Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Sa’id bin Al-'As and 'Abdur Rahman bin Hari-bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, ‘In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur’an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish as the Qur’an was revealed in their tongue’. They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Zaid bin Thabit added, ‘A verse from Sura al-Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur’an and I used to hear Allah’s Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari’. (That verse was): ‘Among the Believers are men who have been true in their convenant with Allah’ (33: 23).

No where in that passage from Deuteronomy is the name of Muhammad mentioned. It talks about the children of Israel, not the Arabs, so your belief in its pertaining to Muhammad is nothing more than wishful thinking coupled with typical Muslim arrogance.

Muslims claim the Bible is “corrupted” and yet grab at straws for anything from it to validate their false prophet!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Clarification is needed here.

‘Isnad’ was used only in the collection and evaluation of the Hadith and NOT the Qur’an.

The Qur’an did not undergo any process of ‘isnad’ whatsoever because it was completed and authenticated by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself shortly before his death.

The Qur’an that we have today is, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same as what was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) some 1400 years ago.

Uthman burnt copies of the Quran after Muhammad’s death, so how can you keep stating the above?? And as for its perfection, one of the reasons he burnt those copies was because of the contradictions in the “perfect” Quran which were causing confusion and probably loss of faith in its being from God!

Vickie

 

[thedavidwilson]

Just so we all know, Ali Dashti is **not **a Shi’a scholar, he’s a very anti-Islamic Persian secularist.

But regarding the quote, I’ve yet to see anyone point out a *specific *example of the Qur’an using incomplete sentences, adjectives and verbs not inflected without observation of the concord of gender and number, illogical and ungrammatically applied pronouns etc… Unfamiliar Arabic words I’ll accept, but I don’t see how that’s a problem.

And also, at the time the Qur’an was written there was no standardised Arabic language. Grammar rules were only developed later, and they were developed from Arabic as it’s utilised in the Qur’an, so how anyone can claim the Qur’an has grammatical errors is beyond me. It’s like saying the Oxford English Dictionary has spelling mistakes…

We are not talking about spelling mistakes. That could be attributed to the people writting down the text. The above is serious structural and gramatical errors. No matter how primative a language is it still had rules of logic and grammer. Otherwise people speaking that languange would not understand each other. The point of the islamic scholar is that the violates these basic rules. It seems God would have had better grammer than this.

 

[De_Maria]

Here is a short illustration of the inimitable eloquence

You mean that literally don’t you? Yet eloquence means understandable and persuasive. How can something be eloquence and yet be untranslatable? That is a contradiction. If something is understandable to the degree it is considered eloquent, it is understandable to the degree of being translatable.

If it is not translatable, it is not understandable and therefore it can hardly be eloquent.

of the Qur’an that makes it really quite impossible to accurately translate into another language:

An Example of Eloquence in the Qur’an: The Preposition ‘of’ in Verse 42:43

…

The preposition ‘of’ has obviously been used to accentuate the distinction between the kind of patience in which forgiveness is not a necessity, and that in which forgiveness represents a test of endurance of injustice and of the believer’s trust in Allah’s providence and will. This shows how a single letter or preposition can bear such depth of meaning and discriminating power in the language of the Qur’an.

I didn’t understand any of that.

The above example clearly demonstrates just how very difficult it is to accurately translate even one short verse of the Qur’an involving the use of just a single preposition ‘of’ within it, such is the supreme eloquence of the language used in the Qur’an. ]As we can all imagine, it is therefore simply not possible to translate the over 6,000 verses of the entire Qur’an into another language without losing much of the accuracy of their true meaning

That would seem rather a defect than a virtue. Shouldn’t a document Allah intended for all humanity be translatable into all human languages?

There are difficulties in translating any language, but they are not insurmountable. Yet, accoriding to Muslims, the Quran can’t be translated and can only be understood in Arabic?

Strange indeed.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[inJESUS]

YAY’AS

In 13:31

Do not the believers know (yay’as), that had God so willed he could have guided all mankind (to the right)?

The word (yay’as) is translated by Yusuf Ali, Arberry and Pickthall as “know”. This word is a proper Arabic word meaning despair. The word is used 13 times in the Qur’an. If we exclude the above reference, in the remaining 12 times it means despair. The commentators could not even produce one Hadith in which the word is used as know. The reason the commentators and the translators see that the word “yay’as” means “to know” is because the Qur’anic verse does not make sense if the word is to be understood as despair.

it is reported that Ibn Abbas read that Qur’anic verse in a different way using the proper Arabic word (yatabayan meaning to realise) instead of (yay’as) and when it was pointed out to him that it is written in the Mushaf (yay’as) and not (yatabayan) he replied: “I think the scribe wrote it while he was being drowsy”.

SHAROU

Another word is found in Q. 2:102

… and they learned what hurt them, and did not profit them, knowing well that whoso buys it shall have no share in the world to come; evil then was that they sold themselves for… (Arberry)
… And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls… (Yusuf 'Ali)

æáÞÏ ÚáãæÇ áãä ÇÔÊÑÇå ãÇáå Ýí ÇáÂÎÑÉ ãä ÎáÇÞ æáÈÆÓ ãÇ ÔÑæÇ Èå ÃäÝÓåã…(ÇáÈÞÑÉ:102)

The word in dispute appears twice in the above verse first as “eshtara” then as “sharou”. It is derived from the root “shara” meaning to buy.

When Arberry and Yusuf 'Ali translated the first form of the word they correctly translated it as buy, but when they came to the second word they translated it as sell. As a matter of fact all other translations we looked up, translated the second word as sell. But the Arabic word used in the above verse means “bought”. The translators felt compelled to translate it as sell because of the context. The Qur’an could have used another word “ba’ou” meaning sold.

The early Muslims to get out of the problem said that the word “sharou” means “ba’ou” in the languge of Hazil.[11]

And to prove that the word “sharou, bought” means “ba’ou, sold” they invented a verse of poetry:

The word “sharou” is a good faithfull Arabic word, but the early Muslims disowned it and “bought” it cheap to the tribe of Hazil in order to “buy” the integrity of the Qur’an.

answering-islam.org/Authors/Newton/inventions.html

 

[hamba2han]

YAY’AS

In 13:31

Do not the believers know (yay’as), that had God so willed he could have guided all mankind (to the right)?

The word (yay’as) is translated by Yusuf Ali, Arberry and Pickthall as “know”. This word is a proper Arabic word meaning despair. The word is used 13 times in the Qur’an. If we exclude the above reference, in the remaining 12 times it means despair.

Kindly provide the other 12 verses in the Qur’an where this word “yay’as” is used.

I cannot seem to find them.

 

[inJESUS]

Kindly provide the other 12 verses in the Qur’an where this word “yay’as” is used.

I cannot seem to find them.

do you know Arabic?

 

[inJESUS]

يا بني اذهبوا فتحسسوا من يوسف واخيه ولا **تياسوا **من روح الله انه لا يياس من روح الله الا القوم الكافرون

سورة يوسف

“O my sons! go ye and enquire about Joseph and his brother, and never give up hope of Allah.s Soothing Mercy: truly no one despairs of Allah.s Soothing Mercy, except those who have no faith.”
( Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #87)

وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَلِقَائِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ **يَئِسُوا **مِن رَّحْمَتِي وَأُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌسورة العنكبوت , Al-Ankaboot, Chapter #29, Verse #23)

Those who reject the Signs of Allah and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter),- it is they who shall despair of My Mercy: it is they who will (suffer) a most grievous Penalty.

حتى اذا **استياس **الرسل وظنوا انهم قد كذبوا جاءهم نصرنا فنجي من نشاء ولا يرد باسنا عن القوم المجرمين
سورة يوسف - سورة 12 - آية 110

Respite will be granted) until, when the apostles give up hope (of their people) and (come to) think that they were treated as liars, there reaches them Our help, and those whom We will are delivered into safety. But never will be warded off our punishment from those who are in sin. Yusuf sura 12, verse 110

سورة يوسف - سورة 12 - آية 80

فلما **استياسوا **منه خلصوا نجيا قال كبيرهم الم تعلموا ان اباكم قد اخذ عليكم موثقا من الله ومن قبل ما فرطتم في يوسف فلن ابرح الارض حتى ياذن لي ابي او يحكم الله لي وهو خير الحاكمين
Now when they saw no hope of his (yielding), they held a conference in private. The leader among them said: "Know ye not that your father did take an oath from you in Allah.s name, and how, before this, ye did fail in your duty with Joseph? (Yusuf chapter 12, verse 80)

سورة المائدة - سورة 5 - آي

اليوم **يئس **الذين كفروا من دينكم فلا تخشوهم واخشون اليوم اكملت لكم دينكم واتممت عليكم نعمتي ورضيت لكم الاسلام دينا فمن اضطر في مخمصة غير متجانف لاثم فان الله غفور رحيم

This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. (chapter 5 verse 3)

سورة العنكبوت - سورة 29 - آية 23

والذين كفروا بايات الله ولقائه اولئك **يئسوا **من رحمتي واولئك لهم عذاب اليم

Those who reject the Signs of Allah and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter),- it is they who shall despair of My Mercy: it is they who will (suffer) a most grievous Penalty. Chapter 29, verse 23

سورة الممتحنة - سورة 60 - آية 13

يا ايها الذين امنوا لا تتولوا قوما غضب الله عليهم قد **يئسوا **من الاخرة كما يئس الكفار من اصحاب القبور

O ye who believe! Turn not (for friendship) to people on whom is the Wrath of Allah, of the Hereafter they are already in despair, just as the Unbelievers are in despair about those (buried) in graves. (Chapter 60, verse 13)

Obviously, the word mean despair, not to know.