Is the "Real Presence" real?

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Other sacrifices were eaten by the priest; the Passover lamb was eaten by everyone.
But no matter who ate the Lamb, or offering, it was not sacrificial in nature or intent. it was purely an act of dedication. Only the blood was sacrificed. Olt Testament type and NT antitype will back this up easily
 
You might be confusing different sacrafices from the levitical laws. The Passover is one of the meals celebrated by all Jewish families, which partook of the blessing of bread ,blessing of the 4 cups of wine, with the consuming of a lamb. This was a seder meal.

The other sacrafices that only the priests consumed were of the sacred kind, when only the Priest and his immediate family members could only consume.

They’re are others, what I like to mention is these all sacraficial meals Jesus fulfilled once and for all, through his passion as the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, in the unleavend bread as his body, and oblation of wine which became his blood. By his own words of consecration.

The fact to take note is that in the passover (Seder) meal, Jesus saves humanity by not allowing us to die a death in our sins and not allow death to overtake us in eternity, just as it fulfills the OT passover from the angel of death to passover all the first born and animals included.

The celebration of the High priest sacrafice for atonement meal was consumed by God from heaven in fire, then what was left was for the High priest and his family.

This is a typo of Jesus and the sons and daughters of the living God, that consume the lamb sacrafice in the sacred place, thus this is fulfilled also in the Lamb sacrafice and must be a perpetual sacrafice, just as Jesus stated to do in “remembrance of me” (make me present).

The perpetual of the law is fulfilled in Jesus. This takes place only in the Mass, because it is here where the high priest Jesus and his brothers and sisters partake of the hidden manna in the secret Place, in the Mass, where heaven and earth meet. Protestant 101 makes a good point, but Jesus fulfills all the sacrafices, and liturgical laws pertaining to the bread and wine. He fulfills them in the true presence of the Eucharist celebration.

It must be a true presence as Jesus states his body and blood we must eat and drink in order to have life. For without the shedding of blood their is no salvation. God will not accept a sacrafice like that of cain a symbolic sacrafice, only the one that speaks from the earth more eloguently as Abels sacrafice a real lamb and real blood. Anything else will cause the one offering this unholy sacrafice wrath and curses, as ST. Paul states in 1Corinthians 11, their is much more to address on these sacrafices that Jesus fulfilled that have not been mentioned here.
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But no matter who ate the Lamb, or offering, it was not sacrificial in nature or intent. it was purely an act of dedication. Only the blood was sacrificed. Olt Testament type and NT antitype will back this up easily
Protestant101 you just set yourself up for a hard scripture spanking with that kind of a comment. But I will not go there, your comment goes against sacred scripture both old covenant and new covenant. If you dont believe in the sacraficial lamb sacrafice in the old or new, what type of Judeo Christian are you?

I am really druelling at your comment " the OT testament type and NT antitype will back this up easily" I am hoping you can teach me something here. Can you show me how easy you can prove using the OT, and NT that there never was a sacrifice in nature?
 
But no matter who ate the Lamb, or offering, it was not sacrificial in nature or intent. it was purely an act of dedication. Only the blood was sacrificed. Olt Testament type and NT antitype will back this up easily
back it up show me in scripture or early Church fathers. Is that the 7th day adventist take on scipture that you wrote?
 
Saint Augustine said that the Old is revealed in the New and that the New is concealed in the Old.

What does that mean? Well if it’s in the New that means it is somewhere in the Old.

We look at John 6 Jesus says that He is the bread that fell from heaven. He compares Himself with the Manna that fell from Heaven.

We see that in **Exodus 16 **that Manna fell from heaven.
What did the people do with that bread?
They ate it.

In **John 19 **we read…

14 It was the day of **Preparation of Passover **Week, about the sixth hour.
“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

Jesus is about to be crucified while **preparation for the Passover **is taking place.
What do they do at a Passover meal?
They eat it.

John 1:29

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Funny how John calls Jesus a lamb.
What do you do with a lamb?
You eat it.

When was the first Passover meal?
In Exodus 12.
What did they have to do?

Old ----------------------------------> New

1.Take unblemished male lamb.-----------------> Jesus

2.The whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it.—> Crucify Him

3.Take the blood and put it on the two doorposts----------------> The cross

4.They shall eat the flesh----------------------------------------**>**Eucharist

Eucharist is Greek it means “Thanksgiving”

What do we do at Thanksgiving?

We eat.
 
Bethlehem is where Jesus was born.

It is Hebrew it means "house of bread"

Where did Mary place the baby Jesus?

In a manger.

What does “manger” mean?

"To Chew"

What do we put in a manger?

Something to eat.

What did Jesus say in** John 6?**

51"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."

He will live forever?

54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

How do we abide in Jesus?

56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

Jesus said eat the flesh of the Son of Man, Not eat the flesh and understand.
 
Through a tree came death, Adam’s sin. And through a tree came life, Jesus’ crucifixion

What grows on a tree?

Fruit.

What do you do with fruit?

You eat it.

“[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood…”
** Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200). **

How many “clues” do we need?:rolleyes:
 
One of the tough things I would imagine for many of our Protestant friends is how much knowledge Catholics do have of scripture. A myth that Catholics do not know the bible is really being put to sleep here.
Oh I dispute this. In my experience, I dare say the average Church going Protestant knows Scripture a lot better than an average Catholic. This may be a sad thing to say, but I believe it’s true.
 
Oh I dispute this. In my experience, I dare say the average Church going Protestant knows Scripture a lot better than an average Catholic. This may be a sad thing to say, but I believe it’s true.
The difference here is that the average Catholic may not be able to quote scripture as much as a Protestant, the Fact remains is that the average or all catholics live out the scriptures in their lives in a more fuller way than all protestants. Just going to a Mass, is scripture from beginiing to end that is lived out in the Catholic person.

Which would you want, a memory of a scripture passage? or to live out the word of God?.

It doesnt hurt for Catholics and Prostestants to learn the scriptures in the Mass come to life in the Catholic communities around the world just on a Sunday. It is awesome.

Praise be Jesus Christ both now and forever.
 
back it up show me in scripture or early Church fathers. Is that the 7th day adventist take on scipture that you wrote?
What happened to protestant101? Maybe protestant101 went to consult his elders. I hope he comes back with an answer?
 
I must admit that it slightly surprises me, but my impression is that the majority of Protestants do believe in the real presence; it is transubstantiation they won’t buy.
Protestants may have a misunderstanding of their many different understandings of the real presence, this is one thing for them to overcome by coming to terms that theyre understanding always ends with a symbolic Jesus, before coming to try and understand Transubstantiation which they havent got an accurate understanding of the word of what it describes rather than the false pretense of what it is.

Protestants cant have a real presence without a valid priesthood, and a valid Eucharist with the True words of Jesus Christ made in the present tense at the moment of consecration of bread and wine, that transubstantiates into the true body,blood soul, and divinity of Jesus himself.

Desiring a real presence, maybe the same as a desire of baptism? I dont know that is a question that maybe can be answered by the Catholic church?
 
Protestants may have a misunderstanding of their many different understandings of the real presence, this is one thing for them to overcome by coming to terms that theyre understanding always ends with a symbolic Jesus, before coming to try and understand Transubstantiation which they havent got an accurate understanding of the word of what it describes rather than the false pretense of what it is.

Protestants cant have a real presence without a valid priesthood, and a valid Eucharist with the True words of Jesus Christ made in the present tense at the moment of consecration of bread and wine, that transubstantiates into the true body,blood soul, and divinity of Jesus himself.

Desiring a real presence, maybe the same as a desire of baptism? I dont know that is a question that maybe can be answered by the Catholic church?
It makes you happy to believe that you and the other exclusive brethren are the only true church so be it. Be happy.
 
It makes you happy to believe that you and the other exclusive brethren are the only true church so be it. Be happy.
I am not happy so long as you refuse to be my brother in Jesus Christ. What I believe makes no difference to anyone, Its the word of God that cuts through the marrow of the bone. Only the Holy Spirit can change us to be children of God,. If I could recommend one thing to you. Try just one time to submit to the holy spirit, your dislikes and refusal of the Catholic church’s teaching to Him, and put all your trust in the Holy Spirit. You have the promise from Jesus that he will reveal the mysteries of God to you, if you deny yourself, your pride and self will. “They shalll all be taught by God”

I am still praying my rosary for you mathematician. Tonight I will be going out to the abortion clinic praying for the aborted children and hurting families, I will say another rosary for you as well. May God keep you, and reveal his Son to your flaming Heart for him.

Peace be with you.
 
It makes you happy to believe that you and the other exclusive brethren are the only true church so be it. Be happy.
What makes your Church true ?

Give me the history of your Church and how it follows the original Church of Christ.

Convince me with history, traditions, scripture, and teachings that you have kept the whole word of Christ?
 
Oh I dispute this. In my experience, I dare say the average Church going Protestant knows Scripture a lot better than an average Catholic. This may be a sad thing to say, but I believe it’s true.
Not this Catholic and I think you are being a little prejudice for you said Church going Protestants and used Catholics as a whole group.
Compare Church going Catholics to Church going Protestants and I do not think you will find much of a difference.

What the Protestants memorize is the parts of the bible only that can defend or justify themselves as in faith alone and the Eucharists this is necessary for them to keep their members.

What is lost is the parts of the bible or the total chapter as to what the Apostle is really talking about.

Ask a Protestant what the bible says about confession, abortion, divorce, works, etc… and they are lost.
 
I’ve been reading the protestant bashing and wasn’t going to reply, however, you’ve got my gander up. Fist there wouldn’t be protestants save for the abuses being perpetrated by the Catholic Church’s leadership. Consider the Papacy! There was a time in the Catholic Church that the Papacy was being disputed over by three people claiming to be pope. 2 in France and 1 in Italy. Think about using indulgences to raise money for a building project of magnificance. Talk about using guilt and fear for profit! The thing that got me writing is this: “what make you think your church is the real one” The fact is that the Catholic Church doesn’t even resemble what the early christian church looked like. There is a school of thought that the Papacy wasn’t preeminant until Victor pushed the issue and was realized by his successor. That the Christian Churches were “school” based and each presbyter or bishop felt equally responsible for the entire body of Christ and would rebuke the others. Ignatius was bishop of Antioch but that didn’t stop him from taking a leading role in instructing the other chruches. The Orthodox believe that there were primarily seven churches which were joined by faith but not subject to Rome. Polycarp was a preeminant leader in his day and viewed by many as do catholics view the Pope. But he was bishop of smyrna. What makes a christian who he is? A relationship with Jesus the Messiah, Son of the Living God. “they will know you by how you love one another” yeah right. Thats why the church refused people to seek the truth by reading scripture for them selves. Mass used to be given in Latin How many of the laity in Germany or England understood what the priest were talking about. Jesus changes lives. Sorry I’ve seen parishes where people lives were not affected by Jesus one way or the other. James says show me your works and I’ll know your faith. There was an Italian family that held the papacy for three generations and they live in infamy to this day!!! The catholic church does not resemble the early church either! Aspects of the liturgy carry foreward but don’t be decieved it’s not exactly the same. Having said all these things I’m not antagonsitic towards Catholics or their Church but you guys were being unfair.
 
What rock did you crawl out from under? Those are straw men arguements that have been dealt with over and over and over and over and over…
Try something new.
 
Thats not an argument. My point is that the Protestant bashing wasn’t fair either and all your arguments are the same against protestants. Nothing new on your side either. By the way they were real conserns for the people of the time. Much like martydom was a real issue for christians under the Roman emperors. Being christian entails christian living.
 
Holy day!
Re: Is the “Real Presence” real?
The answer is Amen, in CHRIST JESUS Our LORD.

Please visit this site ( copy and paste ) HE our LORD JESUS is fully documented.
www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm
The Eucharistic Miracles of the World
and please read the HOLY SCRIPTURE
**HOLY GOSPEL of St. John chapter 6 verses 22 to 71
**
Hope you will find it helpful.
Thank you and GOD Bless…
Supreme thanks be to GOD!
And add this link as well.

newadvent.org/cathen/05572c.htm
 
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