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sambos671
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sambos671;3701400:
,
Thank you, yes your response was somewhat helpful.
However, I think that there is too much personal interpretation going on here and this would include, personal interpretation of the Creeds. You don’t see a problem with this? It is not possible for everyone to be correct, if everyone has a different opinion…right?
What is the one true Christian religion (denomination)?
What is the one true Protestant denomination?
Where can someone find the one true interpretation of the Creeds?
Where can someone find the one true interpretation of the Bible?
If you are sure about your faith and what you believe, then these question should be easy.
Peace
As you know there is no one true Protestant Denomination. As far as the True Church most Protestant believe it is a body made up of real believers who’s lives have been transformed by Jesus Christ no matter the denomination. (And yes that includes Catholics) However, Protestants will also say that there are many people who claim the trappings of christianity but have no real belief ( that also includes all denominations). They believe that this is the true church. The true church (by this deffinition) can be easily seen by the works they perform (not to gain salvation but as a result of salvation.). Catholics and Orthodox will claim the historical right of maintaining the deposit of faith. Catholics in the ancient meaning are the churches through out the know world of the day that held the same beliefs and emphasised it to fight heresy. Ireaneaus mentions this Universaly held beliefs by all true believers in Against Heresies. Orthodox would claim (and rightly) that they were included in this. Though today Orthodox would tell you that non of the early churches was held higher in authority than the others. Polycarp in his life seemed to be the person everyone looked up to. After all Clement (bishop of Rome) critisised Corinth (supporting modern catholic positon) However, Ignatius (bishop of Antioch) also critisised other churches as though he had the authority to do so. So the creeds like the scriptures should be taken in the context of the culture and the society in which they were writen. But I will agree with you on this point (One true interpretation of the Bible) There are many in protestantism. And there are many levels of understanding the scriptures (Jerome and Augustine both mention this). You may not know this but I do appreciate tradition and going to mass I find the purpose is to not only celebrate the Eucharist but to ensure an theology is dispensed. Mass presents a lot of theology well fought over through the years. Before Jesus mattered to me all of these things just went over my head so to speak. It wasn’t until I understood scriptures and history that I understood it. And yes I visited recently after many years of absence.
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Jimmy_B
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Jimmy B;3701470:
Thank you…
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NeedImprovement
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@Sambos671:
Your post # 552 in this thread was a classic - it kind of rose to the top all by itself. Our dear mothers ! How much of the faith we have today was the result of seeds they planted in us when we were young ?
Mine had a struggle with her faith later in her life, but it was at her knee that I learned to say my Rosary. Mothers are so wonderful, even Jesus had to have one.
Your post # 552 in this thread was a classic - it kind of rose to the top all by itself. Our dear mothers ! How much of the faith we have today was the result of seeds they planted in us when we were young ?
Mine had a struggle with her faith later in her life, but it was at her knee that I learned to say my Rosary. Mothers are so wonderful, even Jesus had to have one.
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MaryChristine
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Thank you for pointing out that post #552…I’m sure if it weren’t for my mother’s prayers, I would be far, far away from Our Lord.
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historyb
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The answer is in the Question.
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mikew262
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And how do you figure that?
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MaryChristine
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This is in the context of the Eucharist; The Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus physically present in our tabernacles.
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NeedImprovement
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Because of my apostolate I can end up going to a fair amount of funerals each year. Some of these are in non-Catholic churches. When I enter one of those non-Catholic churches, I notice it right away…not because we’re better, but because the first thing I look for when I enter is where/Whom I’m going to direct my genuflection towards. This is something that (as a Catholic) I don’t think I’ll ever become accustomed to, because directly after discovering there is no tabernacle, I always seem to ask myself, “Well, now what do I do?”
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sambos671
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Nothing just go and sit down. Though I’m confused by your meaning of tabernacle. Do you mean where the vesels are stored or are you talking about Jerusalem?
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NeedImprovement
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Tabernacle as in where the Blessed Sacrament is kept on reserve (in 99.9% of Catholic Churches in a visible and prominent place with a sanctuary lamp constantly burning close by to indicate the “Presence”).
I heard a sermon on the word tabernacle and apparently it means dwelling, but more literally tent as in the Tent of Meeting in Exodus 38:8 . The original language of the Gospel of John, (according to the priest who gave the sermon,) in the prologue -"…and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us" is actually literally rendered “… the Word became flesh and ***‘tented’ ***among us.”
(@ sambos 671 I know appearances can be misleading, but in reality I’m not totally dysfunctional - the question of “Now what do I do”, comes after I’ve found a pew and am seated in it. Going into a house of prayer where the Blessed Sacrament is not present can change a Catholic’s prayer perspective.)
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sambos671
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Why? The presense in the Eucharist is not there but does not mean God isn’t. Can’t you honor and revere God with out the Eucharist?
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NeedImprovement
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I can’t recall ever saying that God wasn’t present or implying that He wasn’t…doesn’t make sense if He’s omnipresent does it ?
I think I stated my position and what is the intended Catholic position quite clearly in post # 569 of this thread.
Would you be able to explain to me where you got the notion that I implied that ?
“The Holy Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life”
- LUMEN GENTIUM.
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NeedImprovement
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Quote of post #569 ;this thread; above.
(It may have helped to specify that the above reference is made to how God is present at Mass/Liturgy etc)
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sambos671
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Well, I may have misunderstood you but Basically I got it from here:
I guess as a catholic after genuflecting most would sit or kneel and pray. Now in a protestant church you would most likely sit and pray (or gossip with your neighbor
). However, I got the impression from the later part of the last quote. You’re talking about levels of God’s presence with the Catholic faith. Protestants don’t disect it that much. God is present in the Christian and we can communicate to him deeply at anytime. That’s the view anyway. So, if I miss understood you this should clarify why.
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NeedImprovement
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Thanks for the info. I might be able to clarify a little more now. In case you’re interested your sense of humour appears to be intact.Well, I may have misunderstood you but Basically I got it from here:
I guess as a catholic after genuflecting most would sit or kneel and pray. Now in a protestant church you would most likely sit and pray (or gossip with your neighbor
I have to keep reminding myself that this is an interdenominational thread. Sometimes answers and replies are interspersed between Catholics, Protestants, non Christians,etc.
Sometimes a reply or question of a Catholic can be misinterpreted by a Protestant, vice versa, etc.
In your own case, because of post # 552 of this thread I’d thought I was speaking to a Catholic so I had been a little puzzled by some of your recent questions.
We can become quite conditioned to the way we pray. Usually when I enter a (Catholic) church, I look for the tabernacle, genuflect and pause a moment; bless myself with some holy water if there is some available; find a pew (still many Catholic ones with kneelers), kneel down, bury my face in my hands to avoid visual distractions and begin trying to pray:
On a “so-so day” : “Okay Lord, why am I here?..”
On a “good” day : “Okay Lord, here’s why I’m here…”
Most of the non-Catholic churches I’ve visited don’t have kneelers, so when I go there to pray with my brothers and sisters, metaphorically speaking it jams a stick into the spokes of my prayer routine…this is what was meant by “Now what do I do.”
BTW people also gossip in the Catholic Church (…I guess it’s a Christian thing). We have this other trait all our own too:
Some Catholics will wait until after Mass at the time when other Catholics might be trying to continue with several prayers (esp. of thanksgiving to Jesus in Holy Communion) and they’ll come right up beside you and start talking really loud to somebody (sometimes even to the one trying to pray)…and it distracts the living *beans * (a less charitable word momentarily came to mind) out of you.
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sambos671
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Yeah, I don’t always sound protestant for two reasons. I was raised Catholic (cradle I guess). I’ve been baptised, had first communion and confirmed. So, I’m very familiar with Catholic themes. (Plus endless arguments with my still Catholic father who was trained by Jesuits.) I left the church for Protestant fellowship shortly after confirmation. That was many years ago. In that time I’ve become very familiar with the bible and took on the task of discovering the truth about the Eucharist. Unfortunately, (or not so much) I’ve discovered that the earliest christians believed int he Eucharist and this doctrine must have been taught by the Apostles. 2nd reason. Which lead to more in depth searches and I’ve come up with evidence of Oral Tradition and other things. So my views are changing about the Catholic Church. However, I have this one thing that keeps nagging me. (Not a critism but an explanation) I can’t seem to get passed the fact that as a Catholic I really didn’t know Jesus nor did I really care. I knew nothing about the bible though I could (and still can) quote all the prayers. But spiritually I was dead. I don’t say this of all Catholics but there are many I know in the same boat. However, having been to mass recently I have a better appreciation for it than before. Hope that helps in understanding.
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NeedImprovement
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There you go getting candid again…it’s the “cement” that holds these threads together. There’s still a ton of stuff I don’t know about my faith (even had to correct myself/ admit my fault in a traditional Catholic thread just recently).
I believe the part about being spiritually dead applies right across the board…all denominations perhaps even all religions find some members just “going through the motions”.
If there was ever a deepening of my faith, it started roughly 14 years ago when I began to work as an autonomous assistant to the Chaplain (they’ve gone through 4 Chaplains in the time I’ve been there) in a large palliative care institution. Consistently being among the sick and suffering members of Christ’s Mystical Body just changes a person.
I believe the part about being spiritually dead applies right across the board…all denominations perhaps even all religions find some members just “going through the motions”.
If there was ever a deepening of my faith, it started roughly 14 years ago when I began to work as an autonomous assistant to the Chaplain (they’ve gone through 4 Chaplains in the time I’ve been there) in a large palliative care institution. Consistently being among the sick and suffering members of Christ’s Mystical Body just changes a person.
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sambos671
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You’re probably right. It’s the thing that holds me back though.
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MaryChristine
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I think one’s spiritual awakening can happen anywhere…the Spirit blows where it will. The awakening is just the beginning of the journey though. I remember when I first experienced God as a true person. Durng that “I saw the light” experience I “saw” the Eucharist as truly Jesus. When that moment was over, I knew I could choose anywhere to worship. There wasn’t so much a right or wrong as the need to get started in praising and worshipping. I chose Catholic because I had “seen Jesus in the Eucharist” and so Catholic was the only religion that believed thusly. It took me many more years to realize the richness of obedience. I still thought I knew better on some things. But the journey once begun inexorably leads to obedience to Jesus and His Church. I hope you don’t get stuck in your spiritual journey by judging the people. They are not central to worship. They are members of the Body, yes, but every member is different from the next, in some different stage of development. Love covers a multitude of sins. Loving our neighbor forgives their weaknesses and in forgiving others, we ultimately forgive ourselves. Pax Christi!
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