Is the rich man in hell or purgatory?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Prodigal1984
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Prodigal1984

Guest
Todays Gospel reading of the rich man and Lazarus. Is the rich man in hell or purgatory? I was wondering this. Of course it is just a parable but I doubt for one the rich man is in hell just for indifference or whatever it was and was a sin of omission but not commission. I don’t think he committed a mortal sin. Plus if he was in hell I doubt he would be able to even see Abraham and Lazarus let alone speak to them in heaven.
 
Last edited:
Since he shows compassion and caring for those still on earth, I would think he is not in Hell, just the abode of the dead.
 
I think the rich man was in hell. Part of the gospel was along the lines of “no one on your side can cross to ours, and no one on our side can cross to yours.”
 
ZemD said:
I think the rich man was in hell. Part of the gospel was along the lines of “no one on your side can cross to ours, and no one on our side can cross to yours.”
Click to expand...
This. The souls in purgatory certainly cross the “chasm”, so the gospel cannot be speaking of it here.
 
Mtatum1958 said:
Since he shows compassion and caring for those still on earth, I would think he is not in Hell, just the abode of the dead.
Click to expand...
The damned in hell can still care for their loved ones, can’t they?

Hell, not purgatory. There’s no “uncrossable chasm” between purgatory and heaven; that just doesn’t make sense.
 
I have read about a private revelation that said that the damned can feel absolutely nothing but hatred and ill will towards all others.
 
dbranch said:
I have read about a private revelation that said that the damned can feel absolutely nothing but hatred and ill will towards all others.
Click to expand...
Is it an acceptable for belief private revelation? You know there are just as many we are supposed to stay away from as we can have devotion too. Actually probably more we should avoid. I don’t know the statistics. Which revelation do you speak of?
 
Last edited:
Mtatum1958 said:
No, I would think not.
Click to expand...
Why?

In any case, what the rich man is expressing is really a continuation of his sins in his earthly life: he only cared for what was his, and not for anything else. Was he happy for Lazarus? Nope… he tried to get Lazarus to run an errand for him – an errand that would take him away from the Bosom of Abraham and place him squarely among the tormenting fires!

And, all he cares about is the reputation of his family: what matters is only that the family doesn’t end up disenfranchised. Not really sure I’d classify that as “compassion and caring”, eh?
dbranch said:
I have read about a private revelation that said that the damned can feel absolutely nothing but hatred and ill will towards all others.
Click to expand...
Private revelations are not doctrinal.
 
Prodigal1984 said:
Todays Gospel reading of the rich man and Lazarus. Is the rich man in hell or purgatory? I was wondering this. Of course it is just a parable but I doubt for one the rich man is in hell just for indifference or whatever it was and was a sin of omission but not commission. I don’t think he committed a mortal sin. Plus if he was in hell I doubt he would be able to even see Abraham and Lazarus let alone speak to them in heaven.
Click to expand...
Haydock Commentary on Luke 16
22 Abraham’s bosom. [3] The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death. Ch. — It was an ancient tradition of the Jews, that the souls of the just were conducted by angels into paradise. The bosom of Abraham (the common Father of all the faithful) was the place where the souls of the saints, and departed patriarchs, waited the arrival of their Deliverer. It was thither the Jesus went after his death; as it is said in the Creed, “he descended into hell,” to deliver those who were detained there, and who might at Christ’s ascension enter into heaven. Calmet. See 1 Pet. iii. 19. — “Many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham.” Matt. viii. 11.
Click to expand...
 
Gorgias said:
Private revelations are not doctrinal
Click to expand...
Yeah I know.

If anyone is interested, here is the private revelation
https://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/catholic/letter_from_hell.htm

“Here we no longer love anyone.”
“Even when we do something “good,” as I do now in opening your eyes about Hell, it is not with any good intention.”

It’s funny I thought of this revelation, by I hadn’t even remembered the damned woman mentions today’s parable:

“Why didn’t you remind me of the parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus, in which the narrator sent one to Hell and the other to Paradise after they died? But what good would this reminder have done? I would have just considered it just more of your pious advice.
Little by little I arranged a god, one privileged enough to be called a god, and at the same time distant enough that I didn’t have to deal with him. I made him confusing enough to allow me to transform him, at will and without need to change religions, into a pantheistic god, or even to permit me to become a proud Deist.
This “god” had neither a heaven to console me nor a hell to frighten me. I left him in peace. This is what my adoration of him consisted of.”
 
Prodigal1984 said:
Of course it is just a parable but I doubt for one the rich man is in hell just for indifference or whatever it was and was a sin of omission but not commission. I don’t think he committed a mortal sin.
Click to expand...
I agree with you…

I’d recommend reading all of of Luke 16 and not just Luke 16:19-31 related to the rich man and Lazarus. The first part of Luke 16:1-9 puts things in greater perspective. It is about a manager of a rich man who learns to negotiate with all of the debtors. This is as much of the teaching as anything. Reading the story of Lazarus and the rich man in the context of Luke 16:1-9 gives it a bit of a different meaning in my opinion. Perhaps it was the rich man’s arrogance and irresponsibility that damned him far more than his wealth in and of itself.
 
Last edited:
It was his lack of mercy and showing kindness to the least of these. The dogs showed more compassion for Lazarus than the rich man did.
 
Last edited:
I hesitate to post this, as I’m not a biblical expert (or an expert in anything!), but my preist really drove this point home in his homily and it really disagrees with the posts on this thread that suggest the rich man was anywhere but hell.

Lazarus was at the rich man’s doorstep, the rich man knew he was there, constantly suffering outside his home. The ‘sin’ of the rich man was not that he did not help Lazarus in a particular way that God expected, it was that he did NOTHING. He could have fed Lazarus, bathed him, given him clothes, talked to him, prayed for him. Whatever the reason he chose not to act is not important, when God presents us with someone in need, he wants us to do something, anything remotely helpful. To turn away, intentionally, from someone in need that he presents to us (at our doorstep) is to turn away from God himself. And the rich man did that, and was suffering in hell for that decision.
 
Last edited:
Since it was a parable, the answer can be “both”, as either case logically applies to what was being taught.

Yes, it is completely possible for the rich man to go to hell.

“I was hungry and you did not feed me. I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink… etc.”

God can designate wicked people to be born into positions of wealth and power in order to serve his purposes, just as Satan serves God’s purposes no matter how hard he tries not to.
 
Last edited:
My priest made a point I have never heard before.

He kept asking Abraham to send Lazarus to do this or that, like a servant. Not once speak directly to Lazarus himself.
 
Hell, plain and simple.

I have seen Catholic apologists attempt to insert purgatory here and it just does not fit. The rich man did not care for poor people, which is typical for them. And Jesus says it’s easier for a camel to make it through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. (Matt 19)

The only passages I seem to see in the gospel accounts that hint at purgatory are Matt 12:32

Douay-Rheims Bible
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

implication being that some sins are forgiven in the world to come.

And in Matthew 5:26 it says:

Matthew 5:26 New International Version (NIV)​

26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

This could be a reference to purgatory. Seems to make more sense as it may imply you will eventually get out of there.

So, I’d stay away from Luke 16 as a purgatory reference and stick with these two, and of course 1 Cor 3:15.
 
First it was a parable…there was no real rich man.

Secondly, there was no Hell, there was no Purgatory at the time the parable is told.

Up until Holy Saturday when Jesus preached to the dead in Sheol, and released them, the place where the deceased righteous and unjust both resided.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top