Is The Sat. Vigil Mass Just Convenience To You?

[Bibbit]

Now I really understand the OP and the OP’s frustration. Please, simply read what I said in the first paragraph of my post:

The Mass is valid and the idea of a Saturday evening Mass is certainly appropriate. Oh, and I do think this issue could easily be addressed by the clergy. Like JP II, simply preach about Sunday.

I didn’t say do away with the Mass, I said it’s appropriate. I DID say preach about Sunday. Read the letter referenced in my post. If you haven’t already it will greatly increase your love of Sunday. This isn’t being done at my parish. The point is people are using the Vigil Mass to essentially escape what they are being called to in JP II’s letter. They want no part of it. Good teaching and preaching will help them to see the beauty of the letter and the beauty that is Sunday. Right now, at my parish, what the Vigil Mass has become is an enabler. It enables parishioners to think they can escape Sunday and all the Church teaches about Sunday. Yes, it’s good they are at Mass, but I worry for many of them. I worry that for many that in the end they will plead with the Lord, imploring Him to save them because, after all, they went to Mass. Yet He may very well reply that He never knew them. It’s a very real possibility, and it’s something we discuss in CCD. I think that sadly, many Protestant fears are lived out in these folks. They do think it’s a works-salvation kind of thing. They think if they do the “work” of attending Mass and going to communion they’re in. But obviously that’s not the way it works. John Paul’s letter makes that clear.

As to your last paragraph, which says:
So sure, encourage people to come to church respectfully and to keep Sunday holy, but I don’t think judging the people who go to Mass Saturday nights is the way to go about it.

I addressed this when I said this:
Again, I can’t read hearts, or anything else contained within a soul, but I have eyes and ears. Folks admit quite freely to me that the Vigil Mass allows them to spend Sunday their way, not God’s way. These are the folks who tell me they’re Catholic because their family was Catholic, not because it’s what they embrace on their own.

I’m beginning to think people read what they want to read in this place. As I said, I’ve been teaching CCD for many, many years at my parish. And over the years parents and students have told me much that upholds what I’ve written. Often parents will bluntly tell me that confirmation is about a big wedding, period. When I hear that I always worry about how my face looks. I don’t want to scare them off, but I want them to know they’re wrong. Many kids will tell me their parents won’t take them to any Mass, just CCD. I try and arrange rides for them with somebody else. The point is, I’m not going by some sort of mind reading on my part, I’m going by what the folks themselves tell me, and by what I see. There’s certainly nothing new in what I am writing. I’m simply trying to relate it to the Vigil Mass and how the Mass is used, at times.

 

[anniemart]

Bibbit,
thank you for the link…you’ve removed many a pair of rose colored glasses today…God Bless You.

 

[ltbpoe43]

In many farming communities - Saturday vigil mass is quite a gift.

 

[bilop]

Now I really understand the OP and the OP’s frustration. Please, simply read what I said in the first paragraph of my post:

The Mass is valid and the idea of a Saturday evening Mass is certainly appropriate. Oh, and I do think this issue could easily be addressed by the clergy. Like JP II, simply preach about Sunday.

I didn’t say do away with the Mass, I said it’s appropriate. I DID say preach about Sunday. Read the letter referenced in my post. If you haven’t already it will greatly increase your love of Sunday. This isn’t being done at my parish. The point is people are using the Vigil Mass to essentially escape what they are being called to in JP II’s letter. They want no part of it. Good teaching and preaching will help them to see the beauty of the letter and the beauty that is Sunday. Right now, at my parish, what the Vigil Mass has become is an enabler. It enables parishioners to think they can escape Sunday and all the Church teaches about Sunday. Yes, it’s good they are at Mass, but I worry for many of them. I worry that for many that in the end they will plead with the Lord, imploring Him to save them because, after all, they went to Mass. Yet He may very well reply that He never knew them. It’s a very real possibility, and it’s something we discuss in CCD. I think that sadly, many Protestant fears are lived out in these folks. They do think it’s a works-salvation kind of thing. They think if they do the “work” of attending Mass and going to communion they’re in. But obviously that’s not the way it works. John Paul’s letter makes that clear.

I have to disagree with this. Everything I know about Catholicism says that if they sincerely plead for God’s mercy at the end they will be saved. All of them. No matter how grudgingly they go to Mass, no matter how much else you might have done wrong.
If you ask for God’s mercy in contrition, you will get it.

You seem to be downplaying the importance of the commandments. Have faith in God and keep the commanments. That’s all you need for salvation. These people are fufilling the commandment to attend Mass. I don’t see how you find fault with them for it.

I stated earlier in this thread, and I will say again, God may very well be more pleased by those who get nothing out of Mass but attend out of duty, than by those who enjoy going.

God Bless

[/QUOTE]

 

[Bibbit]

bilop said:
*“You seem to be downplaying the importance of the commandments. Have faith in God and keep the commanments. That’s all you need for salvation. These people are fufilling the commandment to attend Mass. I don’t see how you find fault with them for it.”

I stated earlier in this thread, and I will say again, God may very well be more pleased by those who get nothing out of Mass but attend out of duty, than by those who enjoy going.*

I was referring to Mathew 7:21-23 where it says:
*21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ *

Prior to verse 21 it says the following:
*15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. *

I realize Christ is saying much here, and he’s not talking about folks attending Saturday’s Vigil Mass. Regarding your post, of course He wants all of mankind to attend Mass and it pleases him when we do attend. The rejoicing over the sheep who was lost comes to mind when reading your post. But something I’ve always understood the Church to be teaching regarding statements like the Bible verses above is that the Commandments, Church laws, and other teachings and requirements of both the Bible and the Magisterium / Bishops are there to lead us into a deeper faith, a deeper love towards God. I believe part of what Jesus is saying here is that if they fail to do this, meaning if they do not lead us closer to Him, then we are doing them in vain and at the end He may not recognize us. After all, isn’t it all about love? If we show no love for God and His Church, I don’t think he’ll recognize us. Tell me, if you were a rich man and you had to decide to whom you would leave your money, would it be somebody who was simply the “yes” man, or the one who loved you? The one who loved you can’t always do your will (I’m speaking on a human level), the “yes” man does your will, but he does it for purely selfish reasons, not out of love. This is one reason why it’s tricky to judge folks.

Note, by the way, the folks referrenced in verses 21-23 are pleading for mercy. I reckon we can’t say if there was contrition, but wouldn’t you be sorry if at your judgment you were facing life without God? St. Faustina says we do get one last chance, but doesn’t the Church teach that we shouldn’t rely on that one last chance? Doesn’t she teach that we should take care of eternal matters now?

I myself, and I believe the OP, do not mean to paint with a wide or broad brush. Yet we both recognize that for some the Vigil Mass may actually be a problem. For some. I said for some. Really, I meant for some. Mass is always good. Actually good doesn’t do it justice. And this includes the Saturday vigil.

 

[bilop]

bilop said:
*“You seem to be downplaying the importance of the commandments. Have faith in God and keep the commanments. That’s all you need for salvation. These people are fufilling the commandment to attend Mass. I don’t see how you find fault with them for it.”

I stated earlier in this thread, and I will say again, God may very well be more pleased by those who get nothing out of Mass but attend out of duty, than by those who enjoy going.*

I was referring to Mathew 7:21-23 where it says:
*21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ *

Prior to verse 21 it says the following:
*15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. *

I realize Christ is saying much here, and he’s not talking about folks attending Saturday’s Vigil Mass. Regarding your post, of course He wants all of mankind to attend Mass and it pleases him when we do attend. The rejoicing over the sheep who was lost comes to mind when reading your post. But something I’ve always understood the Church to be teaching regarding statements like the Bible verses above is that the Commandments, Church laws, and other teachings and requirements of both the Bible and the Magisterium / Bishops are there to lead us into a deeper faith, a deeper love towards God. I believe part of what Jesus is saying here is that if they fail to do this, meaning if they do not lead us closer to Him, then we are doing them in vain and at the end He may not recognize us. After all, isn’t it all about love? If we show no love for God and His Church, I don’t think he’ll recognize us. Tell me, if you were a rich man and you had to decide to whom you would leave your money, would it be somebody who was simply the “yes” man, or the one who loved you? The one who loved you can’t always do your will (I’m speaking on a human level), the “yes” man does your will, but he does it for purely selfish reasons, not out of love. This is one reason why it’s tricky to judge folks.

Note, by the way, the folks referrenced in verses 21-23 are pleading for mercy. I reckon we can’t say if there was contrition, but wouldn’t you be sorry if at your judgment you were facing life without God? St. Faustina says we do get one last chance, but doesn’t the Church teach that we shouldn’t rely on that one last chance? Doesn’t she teach that we should take care of eternal matters now?

I myself, and I believe the OP, do not mean to paint with a wide or broad brush. Yet we both recognize that for some the Vigil Mass may actually be a problem. For some. I said for some. Really, I meant for some. Mass is always good. Actually good doesn’t do it justice. And this includes the Saturday vigil.

I agree that it is better if we obey God out of pure love, but everybody is not there yet, and many will never get there. In the quote above, those who cry out “Lord, Lord” did not do “the will of my Father in Heaven”. They did not follow the commandments.

All I am saying really, is that to obey out of obedience or even fear is enough. The man who repents on his deathbed, solely out of fear of Hell, will be saved. The man who follows all the commandments out of obdience or fear will be saved.

I was afraid you, and the OP, were making the perfect the enemy of the good.

I know you don’t intend this, but I want to make sure you don’t put off any viewers who are on the fence about their faith by criticizing their Saturday attendance.

God Bless

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I’m sorry, Bibbit, but when you called Saturday Vigil Mass “Lazy Man’s Mass” you were uncharitable and wrong.

It just doesn’t matter what you think in that regard, even though you said Saturday Vigil is valid. it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been teaching CCD. Puzzleannie has been at it for decades, as an example, and nowhere did she come to your conclusion. Those who attend Saturday Vigil are not “lost sheep” or undercatechised. They are using a legitimate means to meet their obligation, whether out of love, fear or just habit, for whatever reason they have- and they don’t even need a reason.

To my mind, you did not present in a logical argument.

 

[lak611]

1. Until quite recently, it was easier in traditionally Christian countries to keep Sunday holy because it was an almost universal practice and because, even in the organization of civil society, Sunday rest was considered a fixed part of the work schedule. Today, however, even in those countries which give legal sanction to the festive character of Sunday, changes in socioeconomic conditions have often led to profound modifications of social behaviour and hence of the character of Sunday. The custom of the “weekend” has become more widespread, a weekly period of respite, spent perhaps far from home and often involving participation in cultural, political or sporting activities which are usually held on free days. This social and cultural phenomenon is by no means without its positive aspects if, while respecting true values, it can contribute to people’s development and to the advancement of the life of society as a whole. All of this responds not only to the need for rest, but also to the need for celebration which is inherent in our humanity. Unfortunately, when Sunday loses its fundamental meaning and becomes merely part of a “weekend”, it can happen that people stay locked within a horizon so limited that they can no longer see “the heavens”.(7) Hence, though ready to celebrate, they are really incapable of doing so.

Actually, in the United States, it was the Puritan Protestants, not the Catholic Church, that started the “blue laws.” From Wikipedia:

The term blue law may have been first used by the Reverend Samuel Peters (1735-1826) in his book General History of Connecticut, which was first published in 1781, to refer to various laws first enacted by Puritan colonies in the 17th century which prohibited the selling of certain types of merchandise and retail or business activity of any kind on certain days of the week, usually Sunday.

 

[gus]

Since confession at my last two parishs was just before Saturday Mass. When I go to confession I stay for Mass.
When I returned to the Church and went to Confession for the first time in years.The people were gathering as I waited my turn
Since this parish had a custom of saying the rosery before Mass
The people praying in unison gave me the courage I needed.
Although I prefer Sunday Mass I will never forget my experience

 

[Bibbit]

I’m sorry, Bibbit, but when you called Saturday Vigil Mass “Lazy Man’s Mass” you were uncharitable and wrong.

It just doesn’t matter what you think in that regard, even though you said Saturday Vigil is valid. it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been teaching CCD. Puzzleannie has been at it for decades, as an example, and nowhere did she come to your conclusion. Those who attend Saturday Vigil are not “lost sheep” or undercatechised. They are using a legitimate means to meet their obligation, whether out of love, fear or just habit, for whatever reason they have- and they don’t even need a reason.

To my mind, you did not present in a logical argument.

My naming as such is not something I share with people. This is the first time I’ve used it beyond my wife. It is not meant to knock the Mass, I use it because as I said, at my parish a large percent of the people go not to love and worship God, they go because it’s something ingrained in them from youth or early adulthood. Please note I’m talking about my parish in a very liberal Catholic community. I am not talking about the Vigil Mass in a farming community or some mountain town where there’s 1 priest for 5 parishes.

The name is rather like calling NASCAR the “Red Neck Sport”. I like NASCAR, as for myself I used to race motorcycles. I am not a Southerner, not a high school dropout, don’t drink Bud or smoke. But I understand why people refer to it as such, and that’s OK. I know of churches with late Sunday Masses with large college student turnout (lots of colleges where I live, very well known ones). Those can rightly be referred to as “college Masses” by locals. Not because the Mass is invalid or different, but because of the large college turnout. Come to my parish and see with your own eyes, the Saturday Vigil Mass is not at all like our 3 Sunday Masses. It has no where near the sense of the sacred that our late Sunday morning Mass has. And that’s not because our pastor changes things. It’s because of those who attend.

One more thing: when I see a complete post like yours using an oversized font, I take it as shouting. Should I consider your post uncharitable? I do not. If you do not consider my argument logical then maybe it’s not. But logic is my profession, so it hits me more than most when somebody knocks it. But I was typing at work, on the fly. Maybe next time I’ll try harder and you can at least find me logical, if not wrong. Somehow I doubt it.

Oh, one more one more thing: don’t be sorry if you think me uncharitable. Why should you be sorry if I am indeed uncharitable?

Darn, another one more thing: did you even read JP II’s letter? Just wondering.

 

[Bibbit]

Actually, in the United States, it was the Puritan Protestants, not the Catholic Church, that started the “blue laws.” From Wikipedia:

Did the Pope or I say it was Catholics here? He said Christians. I believe JP II would’ve allowed them that name.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

If you had been here more than a few times, you would know I use large type for my eyes, not yours.

And yes- I have read it. I still fail to see your point.

 

[Bibbit]

If you had been here more than a few times, you would know I use large type for my eyes, not yours.

And yes- I have read it. I still fail to see your point.

Well, what can I say. If John Paul can’t get you too see the significance of Sunday, then who can? He clearly says Sunday is not just the weekend, it’s much more. The simplest way to state my point is that many who attend my parish’s Vigil Mass see it as an easy way to not break up the weekend. Sunday for them is an extension of Saturday. To be sure there are those who attend Sunday Mass who have the same attitude, but to me that’s different, and it’s not in the same numbers.

Tell me, do you really think just attending Mass is enough for the Lord? Judas spent 3 years living with the Lord. 3 years! And yet for him it wasn’t enough. He didn’t love the Lord as he should have, and both he and Jesus paid the price. Just attending Mass is not enough, we are told the grace received at Mass, and particular at communion, is in relation to our love and devotion to the Lord. If we are attending with no sense of love or devotion I do believe he will say He never knew us.

By the way, my login is a bit misleading. I did join here back in the day and read much. What little I posted was lost when CA was hacked. For various reasons I didn’t sign back up for a while, and haven’t posted much. It seems to me that no matter what you post here you risk people making it into something it is not.

Oh, as to the name Lazy Man’s Mass, I do at times wonder if I am being uncharitable. But then for whatever reason I attend the Saturday Mass at my parish and I decide it fits. If something fits, it fits. It can be that simple.

Finally, I don’t hold an attitude against the folks of whom I write. I know most if not all were poorly catechised, if at all. I stated early on the Church could correct this, as JP II has called her to in his letter. The problem is the bishops and pastors hanven’t heeded the call.

I can’t expect a team to play well if it’s not well coached, and I can’t expect parishioners to worship well if they aren’t well catechised. I hope that makes sense. It’s late for me, well past my bedtime.

 

[Cat]

How can any human judge the hearts of other humans? There are at least 500 people, often more, in attendance at the Saturday Vigil Mass in my parish. I know about ten of them by name.

I don’t know why any of them are at Vigil Mass. Until someone tells me straight out that they are there because they are “lazy,” I’m going to assume that they are there because this is best time for them to fulfill their Sunday obligation. It’s none of my business. If the Lord doesn’t approve of their actions over the weekend, then the Holy Spirit can move in their hearts and convict them. I can’t do His work.

I think it is wrong to assume that people are abusing their Sundays. How do YOU know? And even if it appears that they are abusing Sundays, where has God made a “list” of how Sunday should be spent? Is watching a ball game a sin? (That’s what the elderly Baptists taught in the church where I grew up.) Is visiting friends and relatives a sin? Is gardening a sin? Is reading a novel a sin? Where is the list?

God said, “Rest on the Sabbath.” Everyone’s idea of “rest” is different. Allow God to direct the Sunday itinerary for each Christian. He’ll step in if things get away from Him.

 

[Bibbit]

How can any human judge the hearts of other humans? There are at least 500 people, often more, in attendance at the Saturday Vigil Mass in my parish. I know about ten of them by name.

I don’t know why any of them are at Vigil Mass. Until someone tells me straight out that they are there because they are “lazy,” I’m going to assume that they are there because this is best time for them to fulfill their Sunday obligation. It’s none of my business. If the Lord doesn’t approve of their actions over the weekend, then the Holy Spirit can move in their hearts and convict them. I can’t do His work.

I think it is wrong to assume that people are abusing their Sundays. How do YOU know? And even if it appears that they are abusing Sundays, where has God made a “list” of how Sunday should be spent? Is watching a ball game a sin? (That’s what the elderly Baptists taught in the church where I grew up.) Is visiting friends and relatives a sin? Is gardening a sin? Is reading a novel a sin? Where is the list?

God said, “Rest on the Sabbath.” Everyone’s idea of “rest” is different. Allow God to direct the Sunday itinerary for each Christian. He’ll step in if things get away from Him.

Oy! People just don’t read text here, they apparently read thoughts, and incorrectly at that. Please re-read my posts. I said some people, some. I stressed some people. I also pointed out that because I teach CCD at my parish (I’ve been doing it since before my teenage daughter was born) I meet many, many people. Of these people, SOME tell me flat out that they either don’t go to Mass at all, or go to Saturday to “Get it over with”. It’s funny, they seem to assume that because I don’t have a different collar I too don’t take Mass seriously. I’ve had classes where over 50% of my kids’ families didn’t even attend Mass, at all. From time to time I quiz them on the weekend’s readings to see if they understood them, and very often I get back answers like “We didn’t go to Mass this weekend.” I’m not reading hearts, minds, or souls. I said that too. I also have eyes, and I can see them arriving very late for Vigil and leaving early, often not even staying for communion. Yes, people do that on Sunday too, but not in the same numbers, certainly not at my parish. Again, this is some people. The point of this entire thread is that for SOME people the Saturday Vigil Mass is used as a way ef easily extending the weekend, something which the Apostolic Letter said is wrong.

I am not, and the OP was not, bashing folks for possibly taking an approach to the weekend that runs contrary to JP II’s letter. On the contrary, what I would like to see, and I’m sure the OP as well, is the Church teach and preach about this letter. I would love to hear, at the appropriate times, homilies exalting Sundays and the beauty of the Church’s teaching on Sunday and the Sabbath, and the Mass.

I can’t tell you how many kids at my parish are getting confirmed from families that don’t even attend Mass (the confirmation class kids actually have to sign in on the weekends to show they went). And of these kids, not surprisingly, once they are confirmed we don’t see them again. These people need to be reached about the beauty of the Mass and the significance of Sunday. Actually, we all need to be reminded. But some, maybe, some more than others?

Continued in next post due to length constraints…

 

[Bibbit]

…continued from prior post

How can any human judge the hearts of other humans? There are at least 500 people, often more, in attendance at the Saturday Vigil Mass in my parish. I know about ten of them by name.

I don’t know why any of them are at Vigil Mass. Until someone tells me straight out that they are there because they are “lazy,” I’m going to assume that they are there because this is best time for them to fulfill their Sunday obligation. It’s none of my business. If the Lord doesn’t approve of their actions over the weekend, then the Holy Spirit can move in their hearts and convict them. I can’t do His work.

I think it is wrong to assume that people are abusing their Sundays. How do YOU know? And even if it appears that they are abusing Sundays, where has God made a “list” of how Sunday should be spent? Is watching a ball game a sin? (That’s what the elderly Baptists taught in the church where I grew up.) Is visiting friends and relatives a sin? Is gardening a sin? Is reading a novel a sin? Where is the list?

God said, “Rest on the Sabbath.” Everyone’s idea of “rest” is different. Allow God to direct the Sunday itinerary for each Christian. He’ll step in if things get away from Him.

As to your last paragraph, please re-read what JP II said. I re-post it here:
The disciples of Christ, however, are asked to avoid any confusion between the celebration of Sunday, which should truly be a way of keeping the Lord’s Day holy, and the “weekend”, understood as a time of simple rest and relaxation.

I think the letter is saying it isn’t simply about rest, and it certainly says it isn’t simply about the current notion of what the weekend is. Also, I agree with you, let God step in when folks get away from Him! I believe His expectation is for the Church to be His means of stepping in. That’s what the letter is all about. That’s what I and the OP would like to see and hear, God, working through His bride, the Church, teaching and exhorting on this subject.

 

[LilyM]

Oy! People just don’t read text here, they apparently read thoughts, and incorrectly at that. Please re-read my posts. I said some people, some. I stressed some people. I also pointed out that because I teach CCD at my parish (I’ve been doing it since before my teenage daughter was born) I meet many, many people. Of these people, SOME tell me flat out that they either don’t go to Mass at all, or go to Saturday to “Get it over with”.

Your point? You talk to people at any given Mass on Sunday you will get precisely the same responses and precisely the same attitudes - and I dare say in precisely the same numbers. Why are you singling out Saturday Vigil in particular as if it’s somehow uniquely occuring there? It isn’t.

 

[Bibbit]

Your point? You talk to people at any given Mass on Sunday you will get precisely the same responses and precisely the same attitudes - and I dare say in precisely the same numbers. Why are you singling out Saturday Vigil in particular as if it’s somehow uniquely occuring there? It isn’t.

OK, last time. I am going to do my best to get it over with in this post and be done with it. The Saturday Vigil is a wonderful gift to the faithful. It is truly a gift. But like all gifts (and Sunday Mass is also a wonderful gift from God) it can be misused. And indeed, I believe all Masses can be misused by some people at some times. I know I’ve done it, and I pray I don’t do it again. Certainly there are folks who go to communion who aren’t even Catholic, or are Catholic but in a state of mortal sin. Those are two that come to mind. But the misuse spoken of here is when somebody uses the Saturday Vigil as simply a way of not ruining the weekend. Surely that is not the Church’s intent for Saturday Vigil, or Sunday Mass. Again, for the Church Sunday is not simply another part of the weekend, it is more (see quote in an earlier post). Now folks do also misuse Sunday Mass, but the point is that it is not unreasonable to say folks do it to a higher degree at the Saturday Vigil. That’s all. Maybe in your parish that’s not the case, praise God! But in mine, and I’m sure others, it is. Nobody’s calling for the ban of Saturday Vigil, what’s being called for is proper preaching and catechesis for all Catholics so they better understand the meaning of Sunday. This would lift up the worship experience for all, and have the added plus of assisting those who do misuse Saturday Vigil (AND Sunday Mass) to better understand and appreciate what they are misusing. I don’t understand why that is hard for some to see. Again, nobody’s saying ban the Vigil, or that folks who are attending the Vigil are by their very attendance bad or lazy. We are saying that because the vigil can be more easily misused people should be made aware of its proper use and meaning, and the proper understanding of Sunday in general.

 

[LilyM]

OK, last time. I am going to do my best to get it over with in this post and be done with it. The Saturday Vigil is a wonderful gift to the faithful. It is truly a gift. But like all gifts (and Sunday Mass is also a wonderful gift from God) it can be misused. And indeed, I believe all Masses can be misused by some people at some times. I know I’ve done it, and I pray I don’t do it again. Certainly there are folks who go to communion who aren’t even Catholic, or are Catholic but in a state of mortal sin. Those are two that come to mind. But the misuse spoken of here is when somebody uses the Saturday Vigil as simply a way of not ruining the weekend. Surely that is not the Church’s intent for Saturday Vigil, or Sunday Mass. Again, for the Church Sunday is not simply another part of the weekend, it is more (see quote in an earlier post). Now folks do also misuse Sunday Mass, but the point is that it is not unreasonable to say folks do it to a higher degree at the Saturday Vigil. That’s all. Maybe in your parish that’s not the case, praise God! But in mine, and I’m sure others, it is. Nobody’s calling for the ban of Saturday Vigil, what’s being called for is proper preaching and catechesis for all Catholics so they better understand the meaning of Sunday. This would lift up the worship experience for all, and have the added plus of assisting those who do misuse Saturday Vigil (AND Sunday Mass) to better understand and appreciate what they are misusing. I don’t understand why that is hard for some to see. Again, nobody’s saying ban the Vigil, or that folks who are attending the Vigil are by their very attendance bad or lazy. We are saying that because the vigil can be more easily misused people should be made aware of its proper use and meaning, and the proper understanding of Sunday in general.

But Saturday evening IS the weekend how could anyone with understanding worth speaking of possibly think it isn’t equally ‘spoiling the weekend’ to go on Saturday night?

Besides, most Saturday vigils occur at the time people are preparing to go out for the evening if they socialise or preparing to have dinner in any event. So going to vigil takes plenty of effort and commitment on its own, and shame on you for sniffing at or putting down anyone for making that effort, even ungraciously, at a time when so so many refuse to do anything at all by way of Sabbath worship.

Quite simply canon law makes absolutely no distinction between vigil and Sunday mass (and rightly so, both are equally the Sabbath). Any statements by the Popes or anyone else purporting to make such a distinction are what lawyers call ‘obiter dicta’ - mere speculation and personal opinion which is slightly beside the point.

If there were any genuine difference it would be made abundantly clear in the Catechism or Canon Law or otherwise taught more emphatically than it has been to date.

 

[rayne89]

I either go to Saturday vigil or Sunday night mass for a couple of reasons. 1.) I suffer from a chronic illness so I need to get rest–I can only sleep in on Saturdays & Sunday. I am very grateful that we have the opportunities in our archdiocese to do that. When I was working two jobs I had to work on Saturday and Sunday evenings so I would get up and go to the Sunday morning mass at seven am. I got nothing out of it–I’d literally sit there in an awake “coma”. 2.) It seems most parishes in our archidocese have pulled their noon masses. I know when I was little that was the only chance our family had to go together due to time constraints so now it is on Saturday. It’s just impossible to get everyone together by 10 am.

You need to move to be near our parish.
This is our Mass schedule:
4:30 pm Saturday Vigil Mass

Sunday Mass Schedule
7:30 AM
9:30 AM
11:30 AM
1:30 PM
6:30 PM
8:30 PM (our pastor calls this “the last chance Mass”)

We majority of the time we attend the 8:30 pm Mass. We like to spend a relaxing Sunday (it is the day of rest) and end the day with Holy Mass. And yes this is the most convenient.

To **anniemart **I would humbly suggest you not concern yourself with judging other peoples motives, or placing value judgements on when others choose to attend. The church allows the faithful to attend either the Sat. Vigil or on Sunday. It makes no value judgements on the superiority of one day over another. Please consider that this attitude comes across as as being “more Catholic than the Pope”.