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mayogirl25
Guest
Yes it is true the Sabbath is really Saturday. We mainstream Christians somehow got that wrong. The Jews got it right.
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Pythons
Guest
SDA has many offshoots and sects and it’s possible that the one you know belongs to one of those…
…Check out the “Christmas tree” in the following video.
youtube.com/watch?v=V7W-lVu72LU
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Gicutzu
Guest
This is quite simply not true. I’ve been SDA all my life and have never heard of any such beliefs.
Adventists are Trinitarians, and the divinity of Christ is never questioned: He does not have a beginning, just like the Father and the Spirit.
Look at the Fundamental Beliefs:
“There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.”
"God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. "
As for Jesus = Michael, the belief is just that when the Bible mentions Michael, it actually refers to Jesus by another name.
po18guy
Well-known member
You are correct. I think that the post you referred to has conflated JW beliefs with the two other 1800s American adventist faiths, the SDA and LDS. However, and this is a huge however, the SDA are true Christians, believing in the Trinity, having a valid Baptism, sharing belief in original sin, the atonement and other doctrines.
The entire Jesus/Michael problem results from the private interpretation of scripture. It is opinion, and nothing more. 99.99% of Christians disagree with it. Jehovah’s Witnesses (NOT Christians) agree with it.
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Mike_SoCal
Guest
A Christian is a “born again believer”.
He or she who believes on the Gospel, repents, and is Baptized.
Mark 16:15,16
Rom 10:9
Acts 2:38
I would not recommend the 7day church to anyone but I believe there are some Christian Brothers and Sisters there. All true Christians can find common ground in the Gospel.
He or she who believes on the Gospel, repents, and is Baptized.
Mark 16:15,16
Rom 10:9
Acts 2:38
I would not recommend the 7day church to anyone but I believe there are some Christian Brothers and Sisters there. All true Christians can find common ground in the Gospel.
po18guy
Well-known member
Of course, you know what was believed form the beginning: that one must be born from above, by water and the spirit (John 3:3-5). It is not just a mental process, but physical baptism into Christ’s death so as to also rise with Him. As well, just as circumcision allowed males to enter the Judaic covernenant at 8 days, so also does baptism allow one to enterr into the Christian covernant.
Disagree? You may please argue that out with your Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian and Reformed Christian brothers first. And, the Eastern Orthodox.
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Gicutzu
Guest
I don’t even think that this is an official doctrine of the SDA Church. I’ve definitely heard it being mentioned by pastors, but I think it’s up to individual people if they want to believe one way or the other: I grew up believing that Michael is, like Gabriel, an Archangel, and thus separate from Jesus.
Then again, Gabriel is not called an Archangel in the Bible, whereas the term is applied once to Michael and another time to the voice of the Lord when He will descend from Heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
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Pythons
Guest
Seventh-day Adventist Review & Herald:
That’s page 4 of the following URL…
…In case you want to look at it “in context”.
docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18801125-V56-22__B.pdf#search=%22 not a compound being %22&view=fit
Now, as far as “Trinitarian” belief goes could you confirm or deny you don’t accept the following…
…As part of the SDA deposit of Faith.
Charles S Longacre:
Ellen White, Signs of the Times, June 9th 1898
Could Satan in the least particular have tempted Christ to sin, he would have bruised the Saviour’s head. As it was, he could only touch His heel. Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. Christ and the church would have been without hope
How could Christ’s “Divine wrath”, if it was the same Divine Wrath of the Father…
…Come against Christ?
…You will note THAT is a separate Deity.
Ellen White, General Conference of Seventh Day Adventists Bulletin Dec 1, 1895
Remember that Christ risked all; “tempted like as we are,” he staked even his own eternal existence upon the issue of the conflict. Heaven itself was imperiled for our redemption.
Ellen White, Seventh Day Adventist Bible commentary.
Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. **His Deity could not be lost **while He stood faithful and true to His loyalty.
That’s page 40 of the following URL
docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/MIN/MIN19580401-V31-04__B.pdf#search=%22 true to his loyalty %22&view=fit
Could God the Father “sin and loose His Salvation”?
…Could God the Holy Spirit sin and loose His Salvation?
God the Son possessed the exact same Deity as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit…
…Ellen White claimed Jesus could have sinned and then would have been annihilated by “God”.
…This is something the Bible clearly identifies as “blasphemy” and a teaching of anti-Christ.
Cicutz:
Ellen White classified both the pre-Incarnate Christ & Lucifer as ‘archangels’.
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Gicutzu
Guest
Wow, to be honest I had no idea Ellen White said those things (Ellen White was never big in my household, I’ve never read any of her books)…
I have to disagree with her on this one big time, I don’t believe it was possible for Jesus to sin. It was possible for Him to be tempted, and indeed He was tempted by Satan directly, but to say that He could have sinned and then would have felt the wrath of God and be lost forever… That’s really weird.
I have to disagree with her on this one big time, I don’t believe it was possible for Jesus to sin. It was possible for Him to be tempted, and indeed He was tempted by Satan directly, but to say that He could have sinned and then would have felt the wrath of God and be lost forever… That’s really weird.
po18guy
Well-known member
Ellen is definitely not emphasized these days, as my SDA family members advise. However, you cannot separate the SDA from Ellen Gould White, as that takes all of the adventism out of the SDA. Her “visions” have produced nearly all of the unique SDA beliefs. Her writings are held to be inspired, as is the bible, but are held just beneath those of the bible.
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Pythons
Guest
I’m very happy to hear you affirm what you just did Gicutzu…
…Your jaw would drop & hit the floor if you knew how many SDA’s I’ve heard say otherwise.
Ellen White ( and her religious contemporaries ) all believed in the “Personality of God Doctrine”…
…This SDA Doctrine affirmed that God the Father has always had a body of “flesh”.
…With all the organs, members and parts of a perfect human male.
The SDA teaching is that Christ sloughed off His Flesh so that He could Incarnate into the womb of Mary ( wrong )…
…He then took on our human flesh ( which is correct ).
…But Ellen White insisted Christ absorbed “evil concupiscence”.
…As in He wanted to sin but resisted His internal urge and lust to steal, have sex etc.
Thus, when you hear Ellen White speak about the Personality of God it’s within this context…
…That Christ being one with the Father did not destroy the Personality of either.
…Example from the SDA publication I gave, “we believe in a unity NOT a compound being”.
This is the exact opposite of what a Trinitarian believes…
…God is really, ONE - it is the ONE same Substance which makes the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, ‘God’.
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Pythons
Guest
Ellen White and her fellow co-founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church believed that Christ…
…Existed eternally “in the flesh” of Father God.
…So in that sense, the Son was eternal without having a “separate deity”.
…Once creature Christ became “self aware” He was issued a conditional deity from Ultimate God.
Christ was understood to be an archangel in this SDA schema…
…He looked just like the other archangels BUT was actually exuded from God.
…This is contrasted with God making the other angels out of nothing.
Remember, the key to understanding SDAism is understanding what they mean by “Personality of God”…
…I.E. God the Father and all His angel creations were flesh laden hominids.
…Because Christ was exuded from the actual flesh of ultimate God Christ is said to be eternal.
However, in SDA theology there are countless “archangels”…
Ellen White, Seventh Day Adventist Signs of the Times Sept 14 1882
Rebellion originated with Satan. Notwithstanding the exalted position which he occupied among the heavenly host, he became dissatisfied because he was not accorded supreme honor. Hence he questioned God’s purposes and impugned his justice. He bent all his powers to allure the angels from their allegiance. The fact that he was an archangel, glorious and powerful, enabled him to exert a mighty influence. His complaints against God’s government, at first met with no favor; yet being urged again and again, they were finally accepted by those who had before been loyal and happy subjects of the King of Heaven. There was not the shadow of justification or excuse for disaffection; but envy and jealousy, once cherished, gained a power that paralyzed reason and destroyed honor and loyalty. As the result, Satan and all his sympathizers were cast out of Heaven.
Thus, Lucifer was also an archangel.
In 1941 this was again affirmed in SDA Publications…
…Note page 2 of the following URL in the article “How Evil Began”.
docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/STAUS/STAUS19410908-V56-36__C.pdf#search=%22 was an archangel %22&view=fit
This is the Seventh-day Adventist Church official publication archive.
“The first rebellion, or sin, which is transgression of the divine law (i John 3:4), originated in a leader of the angels, one high in the administration of God’s government. It was an archangel who, through pride in his brilliancy, fell, and so committed himself to an age-long
controversy with his Maker”
Ellen White made multiple affirmations that there were many other archangels…
…But to be fair to the SDA prophet the contrast was that those other archangels were made out of nothing.
…While creature Christ was exuded out of the Father Himself ( a flesh hominid God ).
Ellen White
God made him [Lucifer] good and beautiful, as near as possible like Himself.–RH Sept. 24,1901. {TA 26.4}
Page 1, center column.
docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19010924-V78-39__B.pdf#search=%22 as possible like himself %22&view=fit
Ellen White
Listen to their voices as they sing loud hosannas and as they wave the palm branches of victory. Rich music fills heaven as their voices sing forth these words: “Worthy, worthy is the Lamb that was slain and rose again forevermore. Salvation unto our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.” And the angelic host, angels and archangels, covering cherub and glorious seraph, echo back the refrain of that joyous, triumphant song saying, “Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever” (Rev. 7:12). {Mar 329.3}
Seventh Day Adventist Bible Training School
The Son of God was rich and mighty and blessed. But when he would
win the hearts of proud, selfish, and passionate men, he did not put on his robes of
glory and surround himself with angels and archangels and the whole company of
heaven.
There are scores more and the reason I posted the ones above isn’t because…
…I believe there is only one archangel - it’s because SDA’s are now taught as you said.
…“I.E.” There is only one and it’s Michael Christ ( aka creature Christ ).
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Publisher
Guest
Actually the two groups do not believe the same…JW’s believe one the breath has left the body, they cease being a “living soul”…they are not “asleep” They simply do not exist any longer until they are resurrected.
SDA’s believe the “soul” actually does “sleep” and is not aware of anything after they die until the resurrection.
To me it makes no difference whether one belives in “soul sleep” or not…I one DOES indeed “go to sleep”, their next “waking thought” is to be standing in the Presence. We are discussing eternal ideas that cannot be captured in finite words or understanding.
SDA’s DO believe in the full divinity of Christ…like the JW’s he is identified in His pre-incarnation as “Michael”…unlike the JW’s the SDA’s do not believe He was the “first creation” of God, but God Himself in an anthropormorphic image called “Michael”
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Pythons
Guest
In your view would any condition or series of conditions allow for God the Father to eternally cease to exist? Such as a cosmic accident like getting to close to a star that goes super nova or perhaps His violation of His own “Holy Law”? It will be interesting to read your answer.
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Publisher
Guest
Since God is the Creator and Sustainer of all that exists…no…I can’t conceive of such a “condition”…the Source of all Existence could not cease to exist.
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Nicea325
Guest
Both sects are distinct and yet close.
po18guy
Well-known member
All three “adventist” faiths which suddenly sprang up in 19th century America, while they have their disagreements, not surprisingly, also have some shared beliefs. Although one must be outside of those organizations to see this, their fundational purpose is to divide the Body of Christ. All three are predators on the Catholic Church to fill their ranks.
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Pythons
Guest
If you believe that Christ, by nature, possesses the fullness of whatever it is that makes the Father, ‘God’…
…You would be required to affirm that ANY teaching which suggests Christ’s Deity was “conditional”.
…Or any teaching which suggests that Christ could have failed and subsequently been annihilated by God.
…To be heretical, no?
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Publisher
Guest
Friend…I think you are trying to argue a point I never raised nor commented on…I have no idea what you’re trying to prove or engage me in dialogue.
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Nicea325
Guest
I agree 100%
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