Is the use of a radar detector morally justifiable?

[BiologyBrain]

I do not have the case at hand, but IIRC an individual in Texas or somewhere has been convicted of at least 10 DUIs and is not in prison.

Laws, even DUI laws, are not about public safety.

I don’t know how much clearer I can be.

We have zero lolerance laws that harass high school students for having pocket knives in their vehicles on school property but drunks can still drive after many, many multiple DUI convictions.

Laws are not about public safety.

Eddie MAc

Most laws are about public safety - sorry I disagree w/ you. Obviously you have a jaundiced view of the law… I’m sorry for that. What, pray tell, are DUI laws about? Revenue again? I don’t buy that argument b/c not enough money is generated. I’m sure MADD would disagree w/ you as well since they’re the driving force behind many of the newer DUI laws.

In my state, you can have 10 DUIs and not be in jail or w/o your license if they’re spaced out relatively far. It takes, I think, 5 years for the 1st DUI to ‘go away’. then if you get caught again, you get another 1st DUI. If you wait another 5 years, you can get another 1st DUI. Granted it would take 50+ years to rack up 10 DUIs this way, but it is possible & there’s really not a whole lot the state can do about it. The laws are written this way to give people the benefit of the doubt (that they’ll reform). Most people scream injustice that non-violent offenders are jailed period - much less expecting them to stay in jail the rest of their lives.

Also, as someone else previously pointed out - just b/c someone doesn’t have a license doesn’t mean they won’t be driving. Unless they’re incarcerated, w/ or w/o a license many people will still drive b/c they have no regard for the laws. They think the laws are oppressive, stupid, beneath them, etc. Its this mentality that causes the problem. Law-abiding citizens who get a DUI through their own stupidity and recognize that its unhealthy for them & society to disobey just laws will try to reform & will try to follow the law. These are the people that generally end up reformed. However, they’re also the ones that generally get killed in DUI crashes (the law-abiding citizens). We each have a responsibility for one another - some of us take it seriously, others don’t. I prefer to be one that does.

 

[vz71]

I concede this point. Speed limits are not among them.

Some speed limit laws have nothing to do with safety as well.

In my home town, there is a 4 lane divided highway that is perfectly straight and has no type of obstruction that could hinder a driver from seeing several miles.
There are fences on either side for safety, and there are no residences within 100 yards of the highway.
The north and south bound lanes are divided by thick grass, and there are no obstructions there.
There is not even a place to turn off.
The shoulders are as wide as they are on an interstate.

It has a 30 MPH speed limit.

That is the best example I can see of a speed limit law that is not there for safety.

I will concede that the majority of traffic laws are there for safety.
But I cannot ignore the shining example in my own back yard.

 

[Shin]

Some speed limit laws have nothing to do with safety as well.

In my home town, there is a 4 lane divided highway that is perfectly straight and has no type of obstruction that could hinder a driver from seeing several miles.
There are fences on either side for safety, and there are no residences within 100 yards of the highway.
The north and south bound lanes are divided by thick grass, and there are no obstructions there.
There is not even a place to turn off.
The shoulders are as wide as they are on an interstate.

It has a 30 MPH speed limit.

That is the best example I can see of a speed limit law that is not there for safety.

I will concede that the majority of traffic laws are there for safety.
But I cannot ignore the shining example in my own back yard.

I wonder how many extra years of people’s lives they spend on the road because of these things. And how much money the government makes!

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Laws ARE about public safety. The problem is we have no room in our prisons! Prisons are overcrowded, even in Texas, where the death penalty is apparrently no big deal. It is clear that you will not accept any kind of explanation, but just want to claim government greed. I, for one, would rather see violent criminals in prison than drunks. Perhaps rehab is a better choice for them.

We could argue all day about why prisons are so full and why the recividism rate is so high…just like why the recividism rate for DUI is so high. It certainly isn’t recause prisons are operated to punish offenders. Most sentences for DUI are not given to punish the offender either.

I doubt the fact that prisons are not places that punish people bothers you much.

Eddie Mac

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Most laws are about public safety - sorry I disagree w/ you. Obviously you have a jaundiced view of the law… I’m sorry for that. What, pray tell, are DUI laws about? Revenue again? I don’t buy that argument b/c not enough money is generated. I’m sure MADD would disagree w/ you as well since they’re the driving force behind many of the newer DUI laws.

In my state, you can have 10 DUIs and not be in jail or w/o your license if they’re spaced out relatively far. It takes, I think, 5 years for the 1st DUI to ‘go away’. then if you get caught again, you get another 1st DUI. If you wait another 5 years, you can get another 1st DUI. Granted it would take 50+ years to rack up 10 DUIs this way, but it is possible & there’s really not a whole lot the state can do about it. The laws are written this way to give people the benefit of the doubt (that they’ll reform). Most people scream injustice that non-violent offenders are jailed period - much less expecting them to stay in jail the rest of their lives.

Also, as someone else previously pointed out - just b/c someone doesn’t have a license doesn’t mean they won’t be driving. Unless they’re incarcerated, w/ or w/o a license many people will still drive b/c they have no regard for the laws. They think the laws are oppressive, stupid, beneath them, etc. Its this mentality that causes the problem. Law-abiding citizens who get a DUI through their own stupidity and recognize that its unhealthy for them & society to disobey just laws will try to reform & will try to follow the law. These are the people that generally end up reformed. However, they’re also the ones that generally get killed in DUI crashes (the law-abiding citizens). We each have a responsibility for one another - some of us take it seriously, others don’t. I prefer to be one that does.

If MOST laws were actually crafted properly, prosecuted ethically, the offenders punished adequately, then the offense would actually reduce because the law would be effective.

Tell me which law has actually reduced the crime it was intended to enforce?

Drug laws? LOL. DUI laws? LOL. Ethical government? LOL. Tell me one. Please. Try to keep a straight face when you do.

Yes. All laws are intended for revenue generatioin, not enforcing laws and protecting us.

Allow me to explain.

ALL LAWS ARE INTENDED TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO FOR LAWYERS, JUDGES (COURTS), MUNICIPAL, COUNTY, STATE, AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS.

Right now the fastest growing segment of our society is government.

Laws are revenue generation for the government.

Wake up.

Eddie Mac

 

[aspawloski4th]

If MOST laws were actually crafted properly, prosecuted ethically, the offenders punished adequately, then the offense would actually reduce because the law would be effective.

Tell me which law has actually reduced the crime it was intended to enforce?

Drug laws? LOL. DUI laws? LOL. Ethical government? LOL. Tell me one. Please. Try to keep a straight face when you do.

Yes. All laws are intended for revenue generatioin, not enforcing laws and protecting us.

Allow me to explain.

ALL LAWS ARE INTENDED TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO FOR LAWYERS, JUDGES (COURTS), MUNICIPAL, COUNTY, STATE, AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS.

Right now the fastest growing segment of our society is government.

Laws are revenue generation for the government.

Wake up.

Eddie Mac

Amen! We are no more sinning for using radar detectors than the founding fathers were for breaking off from England.

 

[CWBetts]

Amen! We are no more sinning for using radar detectors than the founding fathers were for breaking off from England.

The American Colonists suffered from “a long chain of abuses” to quote the Declaration of Independence. We suffer from none. Not really. Oh no! We are actually expected to obey just laws!! The horror! You have yet to show how the speed limits are unjust.

 

[aspawloski4th]

The American Colonists suffered from “a long chain of abuses” to quote the Declaration of Independence. We suffer from none. Not really. Oh no! We are actually expected to obey just laws!! The horror! You have yet to show how the speed limits are unjust.

It’s that the fact there are speedlimits, it’s what speed one is limited to on a given section of road. If you think I’m going to drive 70 through a 2 lane residential neighborhood side street with kids running around you are nuttier than I thought you were.

 

[jmcrae]

It’s that the fact there are speedlimits, it’s what speed one is limited to on a given section of road. If you think I’m going to drive 70 through a 2 lane residential neighborhood side street with kids running around you are nuttier than I thought you were.

I had a guy tailgating me all the way through a playground zone last evening, and then, right before the end of the playground zone, he passed me and gave me the finger. I just pointed over at the PLAYGROUND ZONE ENDS sign, but he still thought he was in the right.

I bet that guy thinks he’s too smart to need speed limits, too.

 

[CWBetts]

It’s that the fact there are speedlimits, it’s what speed one is limited to on a given section of road. If you think I’m going to drive 70 through a 2 lane residential neighborhood side street with kids running around you are nuttier than I thought you were.

Just because we disagree is no reason to sink to personal insults

 

[BiologyBrain]

If MOST laws were actually crafted properly, prosecuted ethically, the offenders punished adequately, then the offense would actually reduce because the law would be effective.

Tell me which law has actually reduced the crime it was intended to enforce?

Drug laws? LOL. DUI laws? LOL. Ethical government? LOL. Tell me one. Please. Try to keep a straight face when you do.

Yes. All laws are intended for revenue generatioin, not enforcing laws and protecting us.

Allow me to explain.

ALL LAWS ARE INTENDED TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO FOR LAWYERS, JUDGES (COURTS), MUNICIPAL, COUNTY, STATE, AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS.

Right now the fastest growing segment of our society is government.

Laws are revenue generation for the government.

Wake up.

Eddie Mac

I have no idea what sort of laws you’re talking about. The origin of laws was to protect the people. Laws lead to status quo that’s true - however, the status quo that is established is not merely for lawyers and those in government. The status quo is for society’s benefit.

What do you think God’s laws purposes are? We all fall sin again & again (many time repeating the same sins over & over). So are God’s laws not just either? Indicating that recividivism is high does not mean that the laws are wrong in any way. It also does not mean the laws are not meant to be for our own protection. Who gains monetarily from rape and murder laws? Should we just let people do exactly as they wish (lawlessness) and simply pray for the victims? That seems to be what you’re indicating.

Your jaundiced view has completely obliterated any resemblance of Christian charity toward governmet and/or laws. Again, I have no idea what persecution you think you’ve taken from government and/or laws, but I’m very sorry for whatever injustice may have occurred. However, some injustice does not negate any or all laws. Jesus spoke of persecution of his followers and injustices that would follow us. He did not indicate that we should disregard laws however. He indicated exactly the opposite!

 

[Eddie_Mac]

I have no idea what sort of laws you’re talking about. The origin of laws was to protect the people. Laws lead to status quo that’s true - however, the status quo that is established is not merely for lawyers and those in government. The status quo is for society’s benefit.

What do you think God’s laws purposes are? We all fall sin again & again (many time repeating the same sins over & over). So are God’s laws not just either? Indicating that recividivism is high does not mean that the laws are wrong in any way. It also does not mean the laws are not meant to be for our own protection. Who gains monetarily from rape and murder laws? Should we just let people do exactly as they wish (lawlessness) and simply pray for the victims? That seems to be what you’re indicating.

Your jaundiced view has completely obliterated any resemblance of Christian charity toward governmet and/or laws. Again, I have no idea what persecution you think you’ve taken from government and/or laws, but I’m very sorry for whatever injustice may have occurred. However, some injustice does not negate any or all laws. Jesus spoke of persecution of his followers and injustices that would follow us. He did not indicate that we should disregard laws however. He indicated exactly the opposite!

I’ll not drag this further off topic any longer. If you don’t agree with me then fine, snuggle up to the government as your sugar daddy and let it legislate you into oblivion.

Eddie Mac

 

[CWBetts]

I’ll not drag this further off topic any longer. If you don’t agree with me then fine, snuggle up to the government as your sugar daddy and let it legislate you into oblivion.

Eddie Mac

These sound likr the rantings of one who does not understand the true nature of freedom. Freedom is not simply being able to do what you want, when you want. Freedom is the concept that the people have control over theot government in order to prevent tyranny. The problem is, most Americans do not realize what true tyranny is, just as most Christians have no idea what true persecution is. Laws are in place to protect society in some way shape or form. The government has several functions, as outlined in the Preanble of the United States Constitution. Generally speaking, the govenment protects: protects from threats bith foreign and domestic, protects from economic tyraany by providing for the disadvantaged, protects from anarchy through the passage of just laws. Truth be told, this is preferable to the altenative: the strong ruling over the weak, which is precisely what happens if people are allowed to “pick and choose” which laws to follow when those laws are put in place to protect idividuals and society as a whole.

 

[Charles_22]

I had a guy tailgating me all the way through a playground zone last evening, and then, right before the end of the playground zone, he passed me and gave me the finger. I just pointed over at the PLAYGROUND ZONE ENDS sign, but he still thought he was in the right.

I bet that guy thinks he’s too smart to need speed limits, too.

That guy sounds somewhat like me. Here’s the story. I have two roads which I have to drive on every day; one of which is no-pass, the other is residential 30MPH, with a school in the middle of this road.

We have a certain high proportion of the mexican persuasion around here, and, wouldn’t you know it, they practice their slow down mindset on these roads. Unfortunately, even the one road where I can pass them, is wrought with danger in so doing, because there are frequent intersections, and of course somebody may pull out of their driveway only allowing for the too slow vehicle they see.

Now what’s funny, or better yet, sad about all of that, is this residentual road was widened about 4 years back. When it was widened it became a highway, that is two way traffic with only two lanes total (just wider and re-surfaced from before). For some reason it became a spot that police would not monitor and people knew this. Roughly speaking, maybe 50% obeyed the speed limit (and I could tell by the sound going by what speed they were doing - you know, how quickly the sound built up and descended), another 45% exceeded it up to 20MPH over. Then there was the 5%, and like clockwork, they would come, especially around noon or after general working hours, or anytime on the weekend. These people went 90MPH minimum. I seen one idiot, every single working day for a pretty long period, who had to be exceeding 110MPH on his motercycle and without any protective gear at that. I wanted to nail that guy real good, but you know something, you can’t read license plates, assuming they had any, if they’re going by that fast, especially when the vehicle has the smaller motorcycle plates.

I called the police station about this. No sign of them whatsoever to even catch one of those idiots, and with me being unemployed for the past 16 months, I sure would know. For some reason though, it’s pretty much stopped now, and I don’t ever see police around here (maybe once every 3 months). The motorcycle guy? I haven’t even seen him. I have to wonder if he finally didn’t end up buying it.

jmcrae: Now a question just for you. You said this occured in the evening and you mentioned the school zone as though it were pertinent to the story. But you said it was ‘evening’. We don’t have active school zones in Dallas that could be classified as evening ones. So is it possible you were doing the usual 20MPH school zone speed at a time when the school zone was not in effect? Ah, I now notice you didn’t say school zone, but playground zone. Maybe that’s the same thing, but I have never heard of one of those. What’s it like?

 

[aspawloski4th]

These sound likr the rantings of one who does not understand the true nature of freedom. Freedom is not simply being able to do what you want, when you want. Freedom is the concept that the people have control over theot government in order to prevent tyranny. The problem is, most Americans do not realize what true tyranny is, just as most Christians have no idea what true persecution is. Laws are in place to protect society in some way shape or form. The government has several functions, as outlined in the Preanble of the United States Constitution. Generally speaking, the govenment protects: protects from threats bith foreign and domestic, protects from economic tyraany by providing for the disadvantaged, protects from anarchy through the passage of just laws. Truth be told, this is preferable to the altenative: the strong ruling over the weak, which is precisely what happens if people are allowed to “pick and choose” which laws to follow when those laws are put in place to protect idividuals and society as a whole.

Tyranny is a relative term. ofcourse we dont have anywhere anymore what was common in medieval times in western culture. But with the way you post it does make me wonder if you might want to go back to that. Our American society was originally setup to have minmal rules, minimal laws, just enough to protect the society at large and not one idoda more. Because we are a freedom based society. Self protection was up to the individual. We are not a safety based society! Basically we are loosing freedom little by little. sying freedom is not not right for humans is slapping God in the face, and telling him he made a mistake by creating freewill. I have the right to get where Im going on time. Your safety fanatism isn’t going to infringe on that.

 

[CWBetts]

Tyranny is a relative term. ofcourse we dont have anywhere anymore what was common in medieval times in western culture. But with the way you post it does make me wonder if you might want to go back to that. Our American society was originally setup to have minmal rules, minimal laws, just enough to protect the society at large and not one idoda more. Because we are a freedom based society. Self protection was up to the individual. We are not a safety based society! Basically we are loosing freedom little by little. sying freedom is not not right for humans is slapping God in the face, and telling him he made a mistake by creating freewill. I have the right to get where Im going on time. Your safety fanatism isn’t going to infringe on that.

We tries the “minimal governmental control” once…lasted less then a decade. Ever hear of the Articles of Confederation. I believe in safety for the society as a whole, not the selfish “I wanna do whatever i want!” You do have the right to get where you are oging on time. You have a RESPONSIBILITY to do it wiithin the law. You cannot just ignore laws that do not violate teachings of the Church. I cannot explian it any more simply. Breaking any law that is not in direct violation of Church teaching is wrong.

 

[aspawloski4th]

We tries the “minimal governmental control” once…lasted less then a decade. Ever hear of the Articles of Confederation. I believe in safety for the society as a whole, not the selfish “I wanna do whatever i want!” You do have the right to get where you are oging on time. You have a RESPONSIBILITY to do it wiithin the law. You cannot just ignore laws that do not violate teachings of the Church. I cannot explian it any more simply. Breaking any law that is not in direct violation of Church teaching is wrong.

I’ll tell you what. You live your life in the slow lane getting nothing done, worrieing about minor things like speed. I’ll be promt and punctual everytime because I don’t waste time being a slow poke. In the end I’ll have more accomplishments along with more free time , because I won’t be taking all my time getting from point a to point b. Not to mention I’ll never loose a job for tardyness.

 

[1holycatholic]

I’ll tell you what. You live your life in the slow lane getting nothing done, worrieing about minor things like speed. I’ll be promt and punctual everytime because I don’t waste time being a slow poke. In the end I’ll have more accomplishments along with more free time , because I won’t be taking all my time getting from point a to point b. Not to mention I’ll never loose a job for tardyness.

It sounds like you have time management problems.

I’m prompt and punctual because I manage my time well, not because I disregard the safety of myself and others by speeding.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I think it’s fine to go over the limit if you know the road, weather conditions, and obstacles. Certainly I will not go slower than the flow of traffic. If its a dry road and folks are doing 80mph in 70mph limit highway, you can count me as one of them. Your brain and eyes are the most useful tools when driving. I wouldn’t speed on a wet curvy road or small road where kids often play on. Also depends what a persons means by speeding. Are we talking 5- 10mph or a reckless 20-30mph over?

 

[aspawloski4th]

It sounds like you have time management problems.

I’m prompt and punctual because I manage my time well, not because I disregard the safety of myself and others by speeding.

try driving in Grand Rapids a few times and you will see what I’m talking about. Grand rapids should be renamed Nervous Nellyville. I’m looking for my chance to move out of here when the econemy gets better.