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CWBetts
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Tell my cousin that speed doesn’t kill. Oh wait, you can’t…he was killed by a speeder in a traffic accident.
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aspawloski4th
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With your skewed judgement of speed , I’m very close to sure there is other facotrs in that.
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jmcrae
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Speeding gives you less time to react to an unexpected situation - if a car pulls into the intersection in front of you, if you’re not speeding, you have time to stop (because you have time to see him pulling out, and time to apply the brake), and you can jump out of the car and yell at him for being an idiot and running the red light, but if you are speeding, then both of you will be crying, because you’ve wrecked your cars, and probably also become injured.
Speeding is fine, as long as nothing ever suddenly gets in your way. Unfortunately, things have a way of getting in your way, a lot of the time.
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CWBetts
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I have a skewed judgement of speed because I believe the law should be obeyed. I don’t think it is my judgement that is skewed. Oh wait, I forgot. YOU COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE WRONG. How dare you make such a statment about something you know absolutely NOTHING about!
Why don’t you go off and do something constructive with your time, since it is so valuable, instead of mocking, belittling and otherwise putting down evaryone who disagrees with you.
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aspawloski4th
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Funny thing I think you are mocking and belittling myside of thinking. I was making a judgement based on the fact you seem to think punctuality is un important. You wouldn’t survive very long in my family with that attitude. I have not called any names here, so I don’t get where you get the idea I’m doing any mocking. I havent mentioned it till now, but I’d bet because of a certain method of driving people havent used in years I’d be able to stop quicker than most who drive posting in this forum. Because I was taught that way by my grandparents I am a 2 footed driver. I happen to stop very much quicker when I need to in an emergency than most people. If you are so much for safety why are you not advocating that?!!! I find your obsession with the law very repulsive to be truthfull. 9 times out 10 when I hit the road someone other than me is depending on me being on time whether it be directly of indirectly. Like my disabled wife’s doctors appointments or taking a handicapt friend to church. Yes I want to be to church ontime! Most speedlimits are arbitrarly set and not set by the proper method which is the 85th percentile of people drive in a givien section of road. I refuse to let the arbitrary rule or ruin my my life. My advice don’t ever drive in Chicago. you would be ing a quandry on the Dan Ryan freeway. While the posted speed limit is 45 the prevailing speed of traffic is close to 80mph. If you drive that much slower than the prevailing speed you likely will cause a crash your self. Oh yes don’t forget in most localities the prevailing speed of heavy traffic supercedes the speed limitI have a skewed judgement of speed because I believe the law should be obeyed. I don’t think it is my judgement that is skewed. Oh wait, I forgot. YOU COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE WRONG. How dare you make such a statment about something you know absolutely NOTHING about!
. Drive slow all you want, I personally don’t really care, but remember you speedlimit obsession doesn’t give you a corner on the market of safety or anything else good in this world. I hope for your sake you don’t have any run in with my family, because male or female older or younger than I, they all drive much faster than I do. And yes not a one of them has ever gotten a ticket for an at fault accedent. On the road speed is only 10% of the total of safety.
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CWBetts
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I have never said that punctuality is unimportant. And believe it or not I lived in the Chicago metro area for about a year, and i have driven on the Dan Ryan, and I go wityh the flow of traffic. You have mocked me, questioned my character and my motives. You have not shown charity throughout the discussion. You have taken the attitude of “My way is right and to the devil with evryone else” You have no concern about anything other than your punctuality. Maybe you should have it carved on your tombstone. “He was annoying, but he was never late” Truthfully, if the rest of your family is as obsessive about being on time as you are, they would drive me crazy. I have said in previous posts, I am rarely late. I am just responsible enough to leave with ample travel time. You, however seem to think that you don’t need to obey the law, because you and your needs trump all other things. Why don’t you ask an orthodox priest of you can brak the law just because you want to. The answer will be a resounding “NO” My advice to you is to think outside of yourself.Funny thing I think you are mocking and belittling myside of thinking. I was making a judgement based on the fact you seem to think punctuality is un important. You wouldn’t survive very long in my family with that attitude. I have not called any names here, so I don’t get where you get the idea I’m doing any mocking. I havent mentioned it till now, but I’d bet because of a certain method of driving people havent used in years I’d be able to stop quicker than most who drive posting in this forum. Because I was taught that way by my grandparents I am a 2 footed driver. I happen to stop very much quicker when I need to in an emergency than most people. If you are so much for safety why are you not advocating that?!!! I find your obsession with the law very repulsive to be truthfull. 9 times out 10 when I hit the road someone other than me is depending on me being on time whether it be directly of indirectly. Like my disabled wife’s doctors appointments or taking a handicapt friend to church. Yes I want to be to church ontime! Most speedlimits are arbitrarly set and not set by the proper method which is the 85th percentile of people drive in a givien section of road. I refuse to let the arbitrary rule or ruin my my life. My advice don’t ever drive in Chicago. you would be ing a quandry on the Dan Ryan freeway. While the posted speed limit is 45 the prevailing speed of traffic is close to 80mph. If you drive that much slower than the prevailing speed you likely will cause a crash your self. Oh yes don’t forget in most localities the prevailing speed of heavy traffic supercedes the speed limit
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Charles_22
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I’m not too thorough on that situation, but it seemed to me it was case of somebody in the vehicle whose life was endangered, because he was driving to the emergency ward. If their mother-in-law was fixing to die and was a patient already in the hospital, he did act rashly, especially running a light. I can understand the guy having an attitude because you always hear about how accomodating officers are, in fact some offer to lead you to the place (which of course delays you so much since he isn’t going to go very fast, which probably only helps yo with lights) and then that happens to him.
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aspawloski4th
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When you say I mocked you, just remember the commandment thout shalt not bear false witness. Iv’e speculated and given opinion and nothing more. You are near stepping over the line by making accusations like that. If you think I’m obessive with time, ha ha. I have a long time friend that every job he ever worked had his route and timing planned so he would get to his work station at 30 seconds before his shift starts, and his whole family is that way. They if they arive early thats wasting their time. If something happens on the way to work to slow them down, they speed it up on the way. So yes there are those a lot more obessed than I. Before I dealt with you I thought I had a middle of the road view of time.
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CWBetts
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“You are even nuttier than I thought” You mocked me. Not false. Your words. You may have a middle of the road view of time, but your idea of obedience is skewed.
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Charles_22
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I just want to say this as gently as I can (but probably won’t succeed) to some of you guys, but some of you have a phariseeical angle on this speed limit business it seems. Remember what Christ said to the Pharisees about not working on the Sabbath, and what one should do if their jackass is stuck in a ditch on that day? I think He said something about the laws are not meant to oppress people, but to help them? It’s what I was more or less saying earlier about whether I allow my mother to have mortal sin because I have the capability to use enough speed, within reason, in order to make it on time, but seems I’m in venial sin if I don’t speed then. It may be something of what I think they call double jeopardy or something, where no matter what I do there’s some sin involved.
So with some interpretations we are getting here, we would leave the jackass in the ditch on the Lord’s Day because it was amounted to a sin of menial labor. Seems to me that Christ’s words mean that there is no sin at all when the circumstances override the law. Sure, you may still get busted by the police, or by a Pharisee, but you know you’re alright with the Lord. Frankly, in the jackass situation, leaving the jackass might even be considered a grevious offense, because it would be very wasteful in the society of that time. This would be a more serious offense by how much a jackass would mean to your livelihood.
So with some interpretations we are getting here, we would leave the jackass in the ditch on the Lord’s Day because it was amounted to a sin of menial labor. Seems to me that Christ’s words mean that there is no sin at all when the circumstances override the law. Sure, you may still get busted by the police, or by a Pharisee, but you know you’re alright with the Lord. Frankly, in the jackass situation, leaving the jackass might even be considered a grevious offense, because it would be very wasteful in the society of that time. This would be a more serious offense by how much a jackass would mean to your livelihood.
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CWBetts
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Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, render unto God what is God’s. Does this not mean that we are to obey all laws that are not in violation of obedience to God? Every “reason” that has been put foreward here is little more than excuses. I choose to be obedient to the government i am under, unless it would be in conflict with my faith. If I do inadvertantly speed, then I don’t whine about it. I pay the fine. And I certainly don’t find traffic laws opressive. Anyone who does is cluless as to what the word “opression” means. I, for one, am tired of the attitude that “laws i don’t like don’t apply to me” Nothing is further from the truth.
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aspawloski4th
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thats opinion not mockery. You are mad someone(me) has put implications in the topic, and taken away the status of the issue being cut and dry. Obeying the law is simple, cat and dry. Implications of life muddy the waters and takeaway the simplicity you desire. Well life is not simple for us humans and God did not intend to be either. With the birth of one of my siblings, if my dad would of obeyed the speedlimit on the way to the hospital thre would of been more complications with that sister’s birth had my mom got there later. I’d say my mother’s health and the baby’s was imfinitely more important than any speed limit ever was.
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aspawloski4th
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I totally agree!
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CWBetts
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You seem to think that my opinion is that speed limits must be followed at all times no matter what. That is not what I think. BUT most of the time when people speed it is a result of poor time management…not emergency. If people ONLY sped during emergencies, then speeding tickets would be a rare occurrence. The situation you give above is legitimate. Your other examples have revolved aroung you maintainig your reputation for punctuality, which in itself is the sin of vanity. Most of the time obeying the law is VERY cut and dried. But there are times we do have to choose the lesser of two evils. What I am oppsed to is what most speeding is: to get oneself out of a time crunch. 99.99% of the time it isn’t THAT imprtant, and if it is that important, you should have prepared accordingly.
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jmcrae
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If your jackass is falling into the ditch every Lord’s Day, then you need to build a fence to keep him out of it; not spend every Lord’s Day of your life pulling your jackass out of the ditch.
If you are having emergencies all the time, that make you have to speed all the time, then you need to figure out what the root problem is, and fix it, instead of spending your whole life breaking the law.
If you go on MapQuest, it gives you the fastest route to your destination, and indicates the amount of time it should take to get there. Add about five minutes to the time to account for red lights and pedestrians, and you will usually arrive on time.
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aspawloski4th
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Iv’e looked at your profile. I highly doubt from seeing that you are a full time student that you are my age. I was a full time student years ago, thus I’m a degreed meteorologist. Wait till the studenhood part of your life is over with and you have real responsibilities of life and your tune will change. Not likely to think like I do, but there will be other thing in life more important than traffic laws. You will find not everything is cut and dry. You will have to think rather than run on automtic pilot of following " the law". Most of the time I’m driving near the speedlimit. But all the planning in the world isn’t going to keep things from going ary once in a while. Had that this morning with my wife’s eye doctor appointment, evasive thinking on how to get around contruction zoenes and driving 7 miles over kept my wife out of trouble. Yes I did plan it was a 3 mile trip and I left home 45 mintes before the appointment time. had my wife been late her sppointment would of been dropped and her still charged, something she and I cannot afford with her being on disaility and me on unemployement. Was I a speed demon thismorning, no. But I didnt stay totally within that all important speed limit.
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jmcrae
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It took you 45 minutes to travel 3 miles, at 7 miles over the speed limit?
Construction zones in my city usually have well-marked detour routes; it should not be necessary to use “evasive thinking” - you just follow the signs that get you back on to the road you want. They are usually also announced well in advance on all the radio stations, so that you can plan ahead and take a different route, if necessary.
Do you use a city map when you’re planning your driving trips?
Most cities are designed so that, if you follow a map, you can get from anywhere in the city, to anywhere, in under half an hour, unless it’s rush hour (in which case, all bets are off. I try to make it a practice not to drive during rush hour).
By the way, I have been out of school for a good long time (I work with college kids who weren’t even born yet when I graduated from college) and I’m actually more of a follower of speed limits and other laws now, than when I was young.
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Charles_22
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Mapquest, that’s a joke! I was using the Lord’s Day speech from Christ to illustrate how speeding laws aren’t some great law that supercedes all others. Besides, the jackass in the ditch was Christ’s words, He didn’t lecture anybody on building fences to keep them out of ditches, They probably used them for transportation, hence a serious matter (remember the legend of Mary on an *** going to Bethlehem?), so really, it’s kind of dumb to build a fence around your mode of transportation. To make it a bit more modernesque. The Lord asks the Pharisee, if your car caught on fire, would you not put out that fire on the Lord’s Day, instead of claiming you’re obeying the law by not violating the Sabbath due to it requiring menial labor on the day of rest (menial labor in putting the fire out)?
This isn’t a matter, at least in my own case, of ANYTHING being wrong in what I’m doing, but my end of the speeding debate involves my mother thrusting me into a position I would rather not be in and there’s little or nothing she can do about it. As well, we have heard talk about speeding laws being only for safety I believe I heard. I already described earlier how I will speed in various situations, primarily to keep me out of danger, such as getting pinned in with a bunch of cars or when passing a slow car on a street having traffic going both ways, but with only two lanes altogether. If that isn’t more clearly understood (the passing), the whole idea is to accelerate in order to keep the ongoing traffic lane minimally occupied by the passing vehicle. There is rarely a good safe reason for passing somebody in a situation like that when you stubbornly refuse to exceed the speed limit (and what if the slow car decided to go up to the speed limit as you’re passing them?). When the passing is done, you slow back down to the limit.
I personally have no problem getting about to the vast majority of places I go, and I knew a long time ago the quickest route to take my mother to church. So, if it’s not plain enough, if your mother is always running late, and sometimes is so late that driving the speed limit will obviously cost her getting there in time for the Gospel, and thus mortal sin for my mother (or let’s just say a serious offense) am I also not guilty of sin (venial I suppose) in not speeding up, when if I do so she will just as obviously make it in time and therefore no serious offense (which BTW, doesn’t happen every sunday - maybe a 1 in 7 odds)? The whole moral order doesn’t always bend to speeding laws. I have heard, I think it was on EWTN, some group of what were supposed to be learned theologians, though it does sound a bit goofy to me, that mentioned that breaking the speed limit wasn’t a sin, just as long as you would be willing to pull over and pay any fines if caught. I don’t believe that entirely, as my reasoning is that there should be at least a quite significant reason, such as the case with my mother, to consider running the risk of getting a ticket.
BTW, since we have proved there are cases where exceeding the limit is not only not a sin, but mandatory, part of the problem with these limits is knowing when a policeman would have a problem with it in one case, and not in another. We spoke of one guy who got pulled over in what appeared to be an emergency situation, something the police seem to want to get across the impression they don’t have a problem with. The problem is the police are negotiable, but the signs are not, so the only way you can ‘really’ know the law, is to have an officer in the vehicle with you all the time. Failing that, you have to try to figure out what is proper use of it’s obedience/disobedience and what is not.
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Charles_22
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One thing about being timely, I don’t know about your doctor, but if there’s any set of people on the face of the earth I don’t mind being late for, it is them, as I am often sitting 30 minutes to an hour before they even see me.
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Nick_in_MB
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Yeah, Mapquest is a joke.
I have 1 red light on my commute, that I forgot about until now because I don’t actually have to obey the red light. I’m making a right turn, there’s no “No Right Turn On Red” law here. If there’s no sign, feel free to make the right turn on red. So, it’s treated more as a stop sign for people making a right turn. Stop, look for it to be safe, and continue on your way.
The rest is highways and back country roads in unincorporated areas (which rarely have traffic lights, but they exist here and there, just not on my commute). Mapquest doesn’t register the highways as even existing, because they were built recently. Except that I moved here 4 years ago, and the highways were already there.
Google Maps is better. But even they would have me make a left turn onto a highway because they show it as an intersection. The highway goes over a road, no interchange.
I have 1 red light on my commute, that I forgot about until now because I don’t actually have to obey the red light. I’m making a right turn, there’s no “No Right Turn On Red” law here. If there’s no sign, feel free to make the right turn on red. So, it’s treated more as a stop sign for people making a right turn. Stop, look for it to be safe, and continue on your way.
The rest is highways and back country roads in unincorporated areas (which rarely have traffic lights, but they exist here and there, just not on my commute). Mapquest doesn’t register the highways as even existing, because they were built recently. Except that I moved here 4 years ago, and the highways were already there.
Google Maps is better. But even they would have me make a left turn onto a highway because they show it as an intersection. The highway goes over a road, no interchange.
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