Is the Vatican close to clearing up the issue on the requirements for headcoverings?

[MrS]

Hey guys

I stumbled upon this article

tconl.com/~cathcom/HeadCoverings.pdf

The portion that really hit home for me is

Now one reason for the use of veils is wrapped up in
the mystery of a woman’s femininity which can bear children.
At the moment of conception, when God creates a
soul and it joins its body in the womb of its mother, God’s
creative hands work within her, and since whatever God
touches becomes sacred, we veil it. And since a woman’s
hair is her glory (1 Cor. 11:15), we veil what is her dignity.
We do the same thing in our church, for the glory of the
Tabernacle is veiled because of the sacredness inside; furthermore,
the glory of a consecrated Chalice is veiled before
Mass because of the sacredness of what it holds.
Thus, head coverings should not be considered a sign of
inferiority; rather it is a sign that women are different from
men and even further, that women aren’t men. As a result,
it is a noble act for women to continue this practice,
especially to express their love for God for the womanhood
He has given them.

.

 

[pnewton]

If you are adressing this regarding mantilla, you seem to miss the point, again.

I didn’t realize people who keep the faith of the Church in your hearts AND obey the Church’s rules were pharisees.

You missed the point. The post I linked had nothing to do with obeying the Church, it had to do with the attitude of heart that causes use to go beyond obedience to looking down at our neighbor and measuring his or her level of obedience. We are not talking about admonishment of sin, as one caught in adultery, but in many cases of preferential issues.

 

[JReducation]

There seem to two arguments floating through this thread - 1) Whether or not women should wear a head covering and 2) whether or not we as Catholics are obligated to obey Church precepts regardless of what they are.

I am adressing 2 in this response, fyi.

Basically, you just said “since there are bigger issues to worry about, we shouldn’t sweat people disobeying the Church mandates.”

Isn’t that how this world became such a festering mess to begin with?

Since when did we as Catholics become allowed to choose which 80% of Church rules we want to follow? You’re simply making up beliefs that aren’t endorsed by the Catholic Church. As long as you rare willing to admit that and not act as though the Church is in agreement, fine. But there are a lot of people who read these boards and to claim that that is Church policy is a lie.

You are mitigating Church policy based on your opinion of that policy. I assume you are then okay with people missing Mass, aborting, and contracepting, since there are a lot of people (not me mind you) who don’t see that as a big deal.

That is the standard you just encouraged for them! The Church has never said “obey the rules unless you, the individual, deem them trivial,” unless I am mistaken?

I’m sorry, but you completely lost me. All I was trying to say is that the Catholic Church is more concerned about moral issues regarding the dignity of life and bringing the Kingdom of God into the world. The headress question doesn’t seem to be a major concern for the Church at the moment.

I’m not talking about individuals picking and choosing.

In fact, I would ssuggest that if we follow the spriit of saints such as Vincent de Paul, Francis de Sales, Teresa of Avila or Mother Teresa we should be fine with God and the Church. They had a very keen eye for what the Church needed and what the Spirit was calling them to contribute to the Church.

The most beautiful part of their lives was that they never raised a voice in protest against the Church that they loved. The provided for her and filled in the gaps within the Church with great joy, simplicity, a sense of humour at some of the things they saw around them, and a feroucious love for God’s people, but never a word of complaint or criticism.

Sometimes we focus so much on what we believe is wrong and needs fixing, that we miss the opportunities to serve the Church where she most needs us and in areas that she is trying to respond, but is short of missionaries. We are all called to be missionaries.

As the great Doctor St. Therese said, sanctity consists of doing the little things with great love. She never left her cloister, but she transformed the Church. She gave Catholic theology a booster shot, which it greatly needed and her life and prayers for the missions showered graces on all of us.

I’m saying that these are the concerns that most worry the Church. This is the area of focus where our prayers, charity, and action should be directed. The Church speaks out on the dignity of human life every day and we are to be missionaries who contribute to this dignity and the preservation and protection of human dignity. The head covering does not compare to these concerns.

That’s all. The saints whould see this and would respond accordingly. We are called to live and serve as were they.

JR

 

[He_Man]

I’m sorry, but you completely lost me. All I was trying to say is that the Catholic Church is more concerned about moral issues regarding the dignity of life and bringing the Kingdom of God into the world. The headress question doesn’t seem to be a major concern for the Church at the moment.

I’m not talking about individuals picking and choosing.

In fact, I would ssuggest that if we follow the spriit of saints such as Vincent de Paul, Francis de Sales, Teresa of Avila or Mother Teresa we should be fine with God and the Church. They had a very keen eye for what the Church needed and what the Spirit was calling them to contribute to the Church.

That’s fine, and I agree. Your original post to me didn’t address the need for obedience, it simply went off on looking at bigger issues.

I agree that there are bigger issues. HOWEVER, we are in no position to choose which Church edicts we think are important. like I said, millions of Catholic do that with skipping mass and contraception, and I don’t hear anyone encouraging that…

If the Church mandates we kneel, we have to kneel, and it is not our place to decide. if the Church mandated mantialla wearing, they we’d have to obey. Since the Church forbids contraception, we have to obey. That’s all, it is really simple.

However, there is a tone regarding some issues that “well, they don’t really matter.”

This isn’t an either/or scenario. It IS possible to fight against abortion, and **still **obey the “silly” little precepts like attending mass weekly, kneeling, refraining from eating 1 hour prior to receiving the Eucharist, etc.

 

[He_Man]

You missed the point. The post I linked had nothing to do with obeying the Church, it had to do with the attitude of heart that causes use to go beyond obedience to looking down at our neighbor and measuring his or her level of obedience. We are not talking about admonishment of sin, as one caught in adultery, but in many cases of preferential issues.

I don’t disagree that blind obedience **without **a well formed heart doesn’t help us much. But that isn’t for us to decide. The Church calls us to obey, and we have to obey. That was one of the primary messages of Fatima.

Not say “well, deep down my intentions are good.” That isn’t good enough either.

The pharisees were fools for thinking so legalistically and not seeing the true message and actually forming their hearts to it; likewise are people who think they can “be a good person” and ignore the tenets of the faith and the laws imposed by that faith. That’s more of the “I don’t have to go to church to worship” crowd.

 

[lizaanne]

I am not aware that there is an issue to clear up.

I think the fact that these “discussions” go on for pages and pages, and get folks like you all riled up, tells me there is something that needs clearing up for someone!

~Liza

 

[JReducation]

T
However, there is a tone regarding some issues that “well, they don’t really matter.”

This isn’t an either/or scenario. It IS possible to fight against abortion, and **still **obey the “silly” little precepts like attending mass weekly, kneeling, refraining from eating 1 hour prior to receiving the Eucharist, etc.

Perceptions are important and I wish to clarify yours.

I have never said or would say that something that the Church teaches does not matter.

I would say that there somethings that are not issues in the Chuch right now. Wearing a head covering is not an issue in the Church. It is a personal preference that should be respected.

JR

 

[He_Man]

Perceptions are important and I wish to clarify yours.

I have never said or would say that something that the Church teaches does not matter.

I would say that there somethings that are not issues in the Chuch right now. Wearing a head covering is not an issue in the Church. It is a personal preference that should be respected.

JR

I agree, and I think I said that 4 or 5 times at least, bro…

There are others who disagree, and said if they were brought back as mandatory, that that would be sexist and unacceptable. Hence, the discussion of whether or not we have to obey Church’s precepts.

I never once argued whether or not today, women should be wearing mantillas. I personally couldn’t care less.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t disagree that blind obedience **without **a well formed heart doesn’t help us much. But that isn’t for us to decide. The Church calls us to obey, and we have to obey. That was one of the primary messages of Fatima.

I totally agree.

 

[beckers]

I think the fact that these “discussions” go on for pages and pages, and get folks like you all riled up, tells me there is something that needs clearing up for someone!

~Liza

funny isn’t how this one little topic can cause so many issues and pages and a pages of dicussions.

 

[catholicbuckeye]

Why would we want to promote a return to head coverings for women anyway? It serves no purpose other than to perpetuate the concept of male superiority within the Church.

This, from a Church that so highly touts Mary. A tad contradictory from where I’m sitting.

I have always been under the impression it (headcovering) was to avoid distraction during mass…which in my mind says nothing about male superiority but rather speaks to the Church understanding basic human nature and trying to keep focus on the mass, but maybe I am wrong here. I will grant that society has moved so far in one direction in terms of modesty that a head veil seems silly, but I think to read into it some sort of sexism is a stretch…

 

[catholicbuckeye]

Hey guys

I stumbled upon this article

tconl.com/~cathcom/HeadCoverings.pdf

The portion that really hit home for me is

Now one reason for the use of veils is wrapped up in
the mystery of a woman’s femininity which can bear children.
At the moment of conception, when God creates a
soul and it joins its body in the womb of its mother, God’s
creative hands work within her, and since whatever God
touches becomes sacred, we veil it. And since a woman’s
hair is her glory (1 Cor. 11:15), we veil what is her dignity.
We do the same thing in our church, for the glory of the
Tabernacle is veiled because of the sacredness inside; furthermore,
the glory of a consecrated Chalice is veiled before
Mass because of the sacredness of what it holds.
Thus, head coverings should not be considered a sign of
inferiority; rather it is a sign that women are different from
men and even further, that women aren’t men. As a result,
it is a noble act for women to continue this practice,
especially to express their love for God for the womanhood
He has given them.

…I should have read this post first before I responded to the other one! Good work!

 

[JReducation]

Hey guys

I stumbled upon this article

tconl.com/~cathcom/HeadCoverings.pdf

The portion that really hit home for me is

Now one reason for the use of veils is wrapped up in
the mystery of a woman’s femininity which can bear children.
At the moment of conception, when God creates a
soul and it joins its body in the womb of its mother, God’s
creative hands work within her, and since whatever God
touches becomes sacred, we veil it. And since a woman’s
hair is her glory (1 Cor. 11:15), we veil what is her dignity.
We do the same thing in our church, for the glory of the
Tabernacle is veiled because of the sacredness inside; furthermore,
the glory of a consecrated Chalice is veiled before
Mass because of the sacredness of what it holds.
Thus, head coverings should not be considered a sign of
inferiority; rather it is a sign that women are different from
men and even further, that women aren’t men. As a result,
it is a noble act for women to continue this practice,
especially to express their love for God for the womanhood
He has given them.

This was a very common idea. In fact, it is still very strongly held in the East by Orthodox, Muslims and Hindus, not the chalice part. I’m talking about the woman’s part.

Except that all three of those faith communities, men also cover their heads.

JR

 

[elt1956]

Hello all. JR wrote a very clear explanation to me of the differences/sameness in various Church Traditions. I am going to start a new thread called “What is Tradition”? If you are interested, latch on. Peace.

Which watch do you want to take JR? The first, or second?

 

[JReducation]

Hello all. JR wrote a very clear explanation to me of the differences/sameness in various Church Traditions. I am going to start a new thread called “What is Truth”? If you are interested, latch on. Peace.

Which watch do you want to take JR? The first, or second?

I’ll take the rear just in case someone throws tomatoes at me. Are you sure that you want to call your thread by this name?

JR

 

[elt1956]

I’ll take the rear just in case someone throws tomatoes at me. Are you sure that you want to call your thread by this name?

JR

I changed it to What is Tradition? Sorry the traditional coming out in me. Peace.

 

[Anacharius]

I’m confused. Where in the current Canon Law or rubrics does it say that head coverings are required?
I do believe the above statment is mere legalism. In plain simple English, LOST the fight, arguement IF one resorts to that.
Christ Jesus IS the SAME yesterday, today and will be tomorrow. How did the Ladies of when Christ Jesus was around 2000 years ago behave and act Like???
Muslim Ladies dress and act more modestly than most Roman Catholic Ladies I have encountered. Doesn’t wearing fashion ( without the wimple ) resemble what most closistered Nun’s wear an example of what Good Roman Catholic Ladies should wear???
If you are Heavenly Virtuous ( full of grace concept ), a single Roman Catholic Lady wishing to marry in the Roman Catholic Church WILL NOT have a problem attracting a good Roman Catholic Man to Marry her.
Non- verbally, Ladies who don’t cover their head is telling me how much pride they have ( it’s all about me, myself and I ), and the last time I checked, that is the reason why Satan got kicked out of Heaven.

Tom

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[elt1956]

This was a very common idea. In fact, it is still very strongly held in the East by Orthodox, Muslims and Hindus, not the chalice part. I’m talking about the woman’s part.

Except that all three of those faith communities, men also cover their heads.

JR

Now, I could go along with that. That is equality. Don’t the men attending synagogue also cover their heads?

 

[beckers]

Now, I could go along with that. That is equality. Don’t the men attending synagogue also cover their heads?

Ohhhh my favorite topic equality. Well heck then whats stopping us from allowing women to be priest after all its not fair to deny her something just because she is a women.

 

[elt1956]

Ohhhh my favorite topic equality. Well heck then whats stopping us from allowing women to be priest after all its not fair to deny her something just because she is a women.

You are so silly. The answer to that is the Church. Peace.