Is there a Catholic equivalent to the Old Believers?

[AlbMagno]

But you said…

If you have a bishop who has either declared his separation from the Church or who has been declared by the Church to have been separated through his action, any attempt by him to ordain new bishops will be flawed and invalid

Didn’t the Constantinople Patriarchs declare their separation from the Church?

 

[Muzhik]

The Latin Patriarch and the Constantinople Patriarch declared anathema against each other. (Both Churches lifted those declarations against each other in 1965) The difference is that the causes were mostly political, not theological (which is a whole 'nuther thread). What I was thinking of were examples like the bishops of England on their own authority declaring themselves to not hold the Pope as the head of their Church but the King of England. Luther was excommunicated by the Roman Church before he began forming his own faith communities, which in truth were supported by local kings and princes who didn’t want the Pope interfering in how they ran their kingdoms and princedoms. Those who remained faithful to the Pope were frequently accused and convicted of treason, since they held onto loyalty to a foreign king (the Pope).

 

[Digitnomy]

, the method of making the sign of the Cross,

Can you tell us more about the differences?

 

[Muzhik]

Per my Russian-born wife (may G_D keep her close), the Orthodox use the thumb and first two fingers together as a symbol of the Trinity. Roman Catholics use just the first two fingers as a symbol of the homeostatic union (True God and True Man) of Jesus.

Also, Catholics make the Sign of the Cross crossing ourselves from left to right. The Orthodox make the Sign of the Cross from right to left.

Again, per my wife, this is because you have your guardian angel sitting on your right shoulder, while your personal demon sits on your left shoulder. By making the Sign from right to left, it has the effect of casting off the demon from your left shoulder. (I like her explanation but can’t vouch for it. Neither can I vouch for the reason Catholics cross from left to right, which I was taught when young that it was that the Cross was a shield, and you were drawing your shield across yourself for protection. )

 

[po18guy]

The Edwardian Ordinal changed the ordination rite in two senses and invalidated it.

Are Anglican Ordinations Valid? – Shameless Popery

 

[BartholomewB]

Yes, that’s the Catholic view, as I said in my post:

The Catholic Church doesn’t recognize their apostolic succession, of course, .

Other churches may have different criteria.

 

[Pilgrim_Wanderer]

Yes, that’'s correct. At least since the Nikonian Reforms. Prior to that, and currently among the Old Believers, just the first 2 fingers were/are used, with the middle one being slightly bent, as a symbol of the descent of Christ from Heaven. And we say the Jesus Prayer when making the Sign of the Cross, rather than a Trinitarian Invocation

What Part of Russia is your wife from, if I may ask?

Peace & Blessings to all!

 

[po18guy]

As usual, I misunderstood that bit. My bad.

 

[Muzhik]

What Part of Russia is your wife from, if I may ask?

She was from Kislovodsk, may G_D keep her close.