Is there a line drawn with Marion Veneration

[ralphinal]

I’d say that they have a false understanding of how God interacts with His creation, based on a selective reading of the OT denunciations of idolatry, funneled through the lens of Renaissance Neo-Platonism and the culture of “fear and guilt” which dominated Europe from about 1300-1700, and further intensified by the secular, naturalistic view of humanity which has affected Christian theologians from the 18th century on at least (see Jonathan Edwards’s claim that fallen human beings are destitute of “higher principles” and thus totally depraved while still perfectly functioning as human beings). In other words, we would have to have a wide-ranging discussion of basic theological principles before I could even explain why I disagree with them.

Edwin

Actually, assuming that they would sit through the history lesson, that would be a good conversation.

Sometimes, too many non-Catholics do not understand that they see the Bible through the eyes of the era in which they are, or their denomination was founded.

 

[eelpis]

Sorry, the quotation was from St Louis Mary de Montfort’s " True Devotion" not Louis May

 

[Feanor]

What about the Co-Redemtrix?

I like and understand the Mediatrix but not so much the Co-Redemtrix.

Sorry apparently my spelling is of.

 

[Genesis315]

The person who “crossed the Elbe” will obviously not “get it.” St. Alphonsus goes out of his way to make the point that compared to God, Mary is nothing.

If someone thinks our veneration of Mary is equal to their adoration of God, it is not we who venerate Mary to much, but they who adore God too little.

 

[Peter_J]

My wife and I are in RCIA at the moment and being that this is the night before the Immaculate Conception and wanting to stir up the pot, I would like to ask everyones opinion on when exactly we say… “Ok, that’s going a little too far” on Marion Veneration.

Being brought up in a Irish/Polish Catholic (until I was about 8 years old anyhow) home I don’t feel I know where that line is drawn, but my wife whom was brought up in a First Baptist home, always seems to think “its gone a little to far”

Where dose the Roman Rite draw the line and should we confront those whom we witness crossing said line?

Cheers!

Hi,

I don’t have a complete answer to your question, but an example: referring to Mary as “Mother of the Father” and/or “Mother of the Holy Spirit” is clearly going to far. (Actually I myself was once guilty of that, in my younger days. It was pretty innocent, however: I just figured that since the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one God … )

 

[Vanquisher]

Using Marian devotions officially approved by the Church will be a good guarantee that you are not “going too far.”

Among these are the Rosary, Litany of Loretto, and Akathist Hymn.

Basil, are you Orthodox or Catholic?? I’m confused.

 

[Ruthie]

Irish Polock, you asked two questions.

Where dose the Roman Rite draw the line

There are distinct lines drawn.

We use three Latin terms: latria, dulia, and hyperdulia. Latria is the worship that goes to God alone. *Dulia *is the veneration we give to the known Saints in Heaven. It is **not **the worship we owe only to God. *Hyperdulia *is what we give Mary; it is veneration greater than the saints (hyper-veneration, if you will), but a lot less than God. So:

Latria - to God alone
Hyperdulia - to Mary
Dulia - to the Saints

and should we confront those whom we witness crossing said line?

Probably not. You can’t tell from the outside when someone has crossed the line from *Hyperdulia *to Latria.

Many people are very devoted to Mary. You may see someone on their knees in front of an image or statue of Mary, but you don’t know what they are saying, or what they mean by what they are saying. Even if they say, “Mary, grant this prayer,” hopefully they understand that the only way she can “grant” a prayer is by interceding for us with Jesus.

If they don’t understand that - if they think that it is Mary herselfthat grants a prayer - then they have gone beyond the line. Mary cannot make anything happen. She can only ask the Lord to make it happen. But you cannot tell that by looking at them.

Also - there is a lot of very florid language about Mary. When I went through RCIA two years ago, I had problems with the “Hail, Holy Queen” prayer, because I thought it was overdone, to say the least. Now I understand it better, and like it a lot.

Mary’s whole *hyperdulia *comes from the fact that she is the mother of Jesus. God did not look around and say, “Lemme find some handy container to decant Jesus from.” He picked her specifically, out of all women, past, present, and future, to be the mother of our Lord. He interfered at her conception to remove the stain of Original sin from her, so that Jesus would not inherit it. And Jesus Himself, from the Cross, gave her to John as John’s mother. (Jn 19:26-27) We believe that means He gave her to all of us.

Hope this helps.

Welcome to the Church, and God bless you both!

Ruthie