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Anonymous_1
Guest
Let me get back to this a bit later. But I think it is the way that you understand these things that are causing problems.
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CARose
Guest
Hey Alfie,
I’d like to break your post down and answer it point by point. …
Alfie:
Each of us is given different gifts, each of us has our own specific spirituality, and while this can be expressed in numerous different ways (as seen in the varying orders, such as Franciscan, Jesuit, Carmelite or Dominican) we share the unchangable truths given to us by Christ and held firm to through the Sacred Traditions of the Church.
Alfie:
Alfie:
Over the years the various popes and bishops claim to be guided by the Holy Spirt. Actually, you’re close, but perhaps off a bit. ALL the Popes are aided by the Charism of the Holy Spirit which ensures that they are unable to teach error in matters of Faith and Morals. This does not ensure that they will go ahead and speak up when they could help to clear up a misunderstanding (it’s not an active Charism, ensuring the right action be taken), rather it’s a passive Charism, ensuring that a wrong action can NOT be taken. For example, a Pope (sorry, don’t recall the details, such as name/date - can anyone out there help?) was determined to personally translate the bible, despite the fact that he was not an especially gifted languages scholar. Others had reviewed his work, and from what I understand, he was advised that the document was not faithful to the original text. But he was determined to go forward with issuing the translation, even to the point of sending it off for publication. However, before it was released with his final approval, he suddenly died, leaving the work unfinished.
Again, this Charism only extends to preventing him from teaching incorrectly in matters of Faith and Morals. It is called Infallibility, it is NOT Impeccability (unable to sin) Nor Inerrancy (unable to err). This explains how we have managed to have a few scoundrals in the past 2000 years. But even the most sinful of these men did NOT proclaim a truth of the Church which a subsequent pope has had to recind (which, by the way, can’t be done, as Truth is Immutable, as it comes from God who is unchangeable).
Alfie:
Hope this helps,
CARose
I’d like to break your post down and answer it point by point. …
Yup, there’s been and continues to be discord, but that’s because it’s made up of Man, fallen, sinful man. Where man is, there is sin. But it is a Universal Church, containing within it people from around the Globe, from East to West (or in biblical terms describing great distances, from sunrise - far to the East - to sunset - far to the West). And this body of Christ contains within it all the Gifts necessary for the full expression of the Truth which is Christ.
Each of us is given different gifts, each of us has our own specific spirituality, and while this can be expressed in numerous different ways (as seen in the varying orders, such as Franciscan, Jesuit, Carmelite or Dominican) we share the unchangable truths given to us by Christ and held firm to through the Sacred Traditions of the Church.
Your question reflects a lack of understanding of the difference between doctrine and discipline. No slam intended, heck many (most?) Catholics don’t know the difference themselves, making us prey for those who challenge us on such points. Discipline consists of those teachings which can change over time, such as the Celibate Priesthood (Priest in the Roman Rite cannot be married at Ordination). Doctrine consists of those things divinely revealed and which can therefore never be changed. They are declared by the Pope or the Magesterium in Union with the Pope. This is NOT the same as saying the Pope creates new Doctrine, as Public revelation has been complete since St. John the Beloved passed away. But much of what was given to us was given by word of mouth and has been retained in the consistant teachings of the Church.
While it was clarified by the Pope, it was not a new teaching at that time, any more than that the Divinity of Christ was a new teaching at the Council of Nicea in 325. When the truthes long held by the church are challenged sufficiently to require a response (the faithful are being led astray and need to be confirmed in the truth), the Leadership of the Church speaks to the issue at hand and preserves the Truth.
Over the years the various popes and bishops claim to be guided by the Holy Spirt. Actually, you’re close, but perhaps off a bit. ALL the Popes are aided by the Charism of the Holy Spirit which ensures that they are unable to teach error in matters of Faith and Morals. This does not ensure that they will go ahead and speak up when they could help to clear up a misunderstanding (it’s not an active Charism, ensuring the right action be taken), rather it’s a passive Charism, ensuring that a wrong action can NOT be taken. For example, a Pope (sorry, don’t recall the details, such as name/date - can anyone out there help?) was determined to personally translate the bible, despite the fact that he was not an especially gifted languages scholar. Others had reviewed his work, and from what I understand, he was advised that the document was not faithful to the original text. But he was determined to go forward with issuing the translation, even to the point of sending it off for publication. However, before it was released with his final approval, he suddenly died, leaving the work unfinished.
Again, this Charism only extends to preventing him from teaching incorrectly in matters of Faith and Morals. It is called Infallibility, it is NOT Impeccability (unable to sin) Nor Inerrancy (unable to err). This explains how we have managed to have a few scoundrals in the past 2000 years. But even the most sinful of these men did NOT proclaim a truth of the Church which a subsequent pope has had to recind (which, by the way, can’t be done, as Truth is Immutable, as it comes from God who is unchangeable).
Then we’d have to wonder about the truth of Scripture (which by the way came after the Church, and came from the Church), for Scripture tells us that Christ founded His Church, against which the Gates of Hell would not prevail, and that the Pillar and Foundation (or Bulwarks depending on your translation) of Truth is the Church.
Hope this helps,
CARose
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NotWorthy
Guest
CARose, you might be thinking of one of the Pope Steven’s. I’m feeling lazy tonight, so I can’t look it up (OK, I can’t lie, PSU and FSU are playing… I also plan to be lazy tomorrow night, too!
), but one of the Pope Steven’s was, as a political favor, going to release some edict that was contrary to our teaching. Hopefully, we’ve shaken the cobwebs off of somebody who can fill in the gaps.
Take Care!
Notworthy
), but one of the Pope Steven’s was, as a political favor, going to release some edict that was contrary to our teaching. Hopefully, we’ve shaken the cobwebs off of somebody who can fill in the gaps.Take Care!
Notworthy
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Anonymous_1
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I guess i won’t get back to it. Besides, I dont know enough about such things to make a good defense. thansk for your reply CARose
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justint77
Guest
I’m pretty new here. I dont understand why a protestant person even spends so much time on these Catholic forums… ive noticed some of these protestants and or non-catholics have over 200 posts here… i dont get it??? seriously, if you disagree so much with the CC then why stay in here and argue about it. i seriously doubt youre going to change anyones minds.
personally i think they like the confrontation. some people are just confrontational by nature. basically its self destructive behavior.
personally i think they like the confrontation. some people are just confrontational by nature. basically its self destructive behavior.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Not all protestants are here to argue though… some, like me, are here to learn about the catholic faith to better understand our brothers and sisters in Christ and where they are coming from so that we can bridge the gap, so to speak, and stop all the arguing and fighting.
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mastda
Guest
Amen, I totally agree with you and I am pretty new here as well. I posted once before that it is frustrating when some of these protestants bring up and quote the same things over and over again, expecting us to just say “Oh I did not know that, I have been deceived my whole life, I have offically attended my last mass”. What would be nice is to have these people first go to the main Catholic Answers page and read what we believe and why we do so they can ask more intelligent questions when they begin to post.
In regards to conspiracy’s, I have noticed a trend in writing styles with a few people who go by different names.
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justint77
Guest
i understand about wanting to learn about the Catholic religion but 400+ post since August Singinbeauty? Closet Catholic maybe? 
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Well I wouldn’t say that but others have said I am more catholic than I think…i understand about wanting to learn about the Catholic religion but 400+ post since August Singinbeauty? Closet Catholic maybe?
I choose to not take it as an insult although I never know with some of the posters on this site… 
I work for unity and you can’t have unity under Christ if you don’t understand your brothers and sisters and where they are coming from! 
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Church_Militant
Guest
VERY well said SB!Well I wouldn’t say that but others have said I am more catholic than I think…
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Thank you CM!!!
I also wanted to add to this thread that there may be some protestants on this site who seem a bit confrontational because they don’t quite know what to do with the feeling that God is leading them to the Catholic Church. God does lead people there and if you have grown up your whole life being taught that the Catholic Church is evil and now you find yourself wanting to know more and to maybe even SHOCK convert you might get angry and try to find ANYTHING that will disprove the Catholic Church so you don’t have to go. So go easy on them… Even though you may have heard it a THOUSAND times and you are sick of answering the same dribble over and over again remember, this may be the first time that protestant is asking that question and with the confusing issues in their heads they just might not know how to word it.
Just a thought…
I also wanted to add to this thread that there may be some protestants on this site who seem a bit confrontational because they don’t quite know what to do with the feeling that God is leading them to the Catholic Church. God does lead people there and if you have grown up your whole life being taught that the Catholic Church is evil and now you find yourself wanting to know more and to maybe even SHOCK convert you might get angry and try to find ANYTHING that will disprove the Catholic Church so you don’t have to go. So go easy on them… Even though you may have heard it a THOUSAND times and you are sick of answering the same dribble over and over again remember, this may be the first time that protestant is asking that question and with the confusing issues in their heads they just might not know how to word it.
Just a thought…
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CARose
Guest
SB,
That’s great. Well said!
CARose
That’s great. Well said!
CARose
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Singinbeauty
Guest
Thank you…
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seabird3579
Guest
Yes, Red, but the **truth in love ** is a *two way street * for all christians to abide by.
If a non-Catholic comes on this forum and expects to ask an honest question and get an honest answer, they should ask their question with respect, honoring the Catholic beliefs contained herein. When they don’t ask it respectfully, they are in fact, degrading our faith and expecting us to do nothing about it.
If someone comes on just to antagonize or taunt us because we’re “not saved” according to their view, than I say they need to be told when enough is enough. Sometimes that can be done very calmly, other times it takes a bit more curtness – it depends on the question and the poster.
Jesus got righteously angry when he tipped over the money changers tables in the Temple. It didn’t “appear” he was being loving, but we know that he loves all unconditionally. It was his duty to tell the offenders and to do it in the manner that he did.
I’m not advocating contention, I’m just saying, address your comments appropriate to the poster.
Important truths need to be discussed on a forum such as this, but **all ** posters must respect each other.
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Brian_C
Guest
I came here as an innocent Baptist just wanting to hear the Catholic side of things and learn a little Church history. Well, I guess I was impressed! My wife and I are knee-deep in RCIA and I am building quite a library. I hope I am not thought of as a conspirator!
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St.Eric
Guest
That’s Awesome Brian C! I have a similar story. Keep delving into the Church. The depth of the faith is amazing! God Bless.I came here as an innocent Baptist just wanting to hear the Catholic side of things and learn a little Church history. Well, I guess I was impressed! My wife and I are knee-deep in RCIA and I am building quite a library. I hope I am not thought of as a conspirator!
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Alfie
Guest
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OhioBob
Guest
Nobody is claiming that they did.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Alfie,
The Roman Catholic Church did not write the Bible and has never made that claim. Various Epistles were used in the Liturgy of the Word, usually beginning immediately after they were written and sent to the destination Church. Often times, they were copied and delivered to other Churches, which could use them in their Liturgy.
The Roman Catholic Church infallibly defined the OT & NT Canons in Hippo and Carthage in the 4th century.
Take Care!
Notworthy
P.S. Where are you getting this information the the RCC claims to have “written” the bible?
The Roman Catholic Church did not write the Bible and has never made that claim. Various Epistles were used in the Liturgy of the Word, usually beginning immediately after they were written and sent to the destination Church. Often times, they were copied and delivered to other Churches, which could use them in their Liturgy.
The Roman Catholic Church infallibly defined the OT & NT Canons in Hippo and Carthage in the 4th century.
Take Care!
Notworthy
P.S. Where are you getting this information the the RCC claims to have “written” the bible?
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
The Catholic Church did not write the Bible, but her members did.
Saint Ignatius the Patriarch of Antioch, who personally knew and studied under the apostles is the first one we know of who called the Christian church catholic in 107 or 109 AD. Probably not the first one to call the church Catholic, but definitely the first one we know of to have written it down. Ignatius was subsequently martyred in the colosseum at Rome and his remains are still there today.
Saint Ignatius of Antioch:
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